Polian critical of Bills not drafting a QB

[PromoTheRobot]

Finding a franchise QB is not like buying lottery scratchers. If your strategy is to draft a bunch because you might get lucky, you are Mike Schopp, not an NFL scout.

Edited May 4, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[C.Biscuit97]

 

I would be absolutely astounded if that turned out to be the case. I just don't see it happening at all.

I take it you're a Stanford fan? Every time I watch them, I think of how good they could be if they had a better QB than Hogan. Maybe he can develop this year but I don't see it. He's a gamemanager in college.

 

And again, Curtis Painter and Jim Sorgi. Those are some of the QBs Polian drafted that weren't top 5 picks. Polian built a team that depended on one player. He obviously is tight with Marrone and doesn't like EJ.

 

 

 

You both make rational arguments, but, too often, as fans we tend to rationalize our team's actions.

 

The QB position is too important to ignore the draft as a source for the next franchise guy.

 

As for EJ, yeah he should be developed and given a chance, then why didn't he play the last 2 games last year when the Bills were eliminated from the playoffs ?

 

I wanted the Bills to trade back into the 4th round and take Petty or Hundley.

He didn't play the last 2 games because Marrone is a selfish richard who didn't want to be proved wrong. Marrone didn't care about this franchise. There was nothing to gain by playing Orton the last 2 games. Nothing. And if EJ played well, he would look terrible given how bad Orton finished the year.

 

I hope Marrone enjoys being an oline coach because he will never be a NFL head coach again.

[Yoli]

I am critical of the draft itself. The NFL seems to be priding itself on controlling for character by not selecting the player involved in the murder investigation and the player who dropped because of a positive pot test. But the press ignores things like Jameis Winston's tweet about having all the crab legs he wants now. This shows, in my opinion, how little respect he has for the law and how invincible he feels he is. Commentators can talk all they want about his football intellect -- he has no filter and possibly no moral intellect whatsoever. And then, there are the Bills' two draft choices, one of whom was in a fleeing the scene of the accident, present at Winston's alleged rape, and the other of whom seems to have been involved in a domestic violence situation. Granted, we are dealing with college kids, and I don't think a little pot is a big deal. I do think that rape, dv, murder, leaving the scene of an accident are big deals. I am disgusted by the caliber of player the Bills and other NFL teams chose. Quaterback is the least of our worries.

[C.Biscuit97]

I am critical of the draft itself. The NFL seems to be priding itself on controlling for character by not selecting the player involved in the murder investigation and the player who dropped because of a positive pot test. But the press ignores things like Jameis Winston's tweet about having all the crab legs he wants now. This shows, in my opinion, how little respect he has for the law and how invincible he feels he is. Commentators can talk all they want about his football intellect -- he has no filter and possibly no moral intellect whatsoever. And then, there are the Bills' two draft choices, one of whom was in a fleeing the scene of the accident, present at Winston's alleged rape, and the other of whom seems to have been involved in a domestic violence situation. Granted, we are dealing with college kids, and I don't think a little pot is a big deal. I do think that rape, dv, murder, leaving the scene of an accident are big deals. I am disgusted by the caliber of player the Bills and other NFL teams chose. Quaterback is the least of our worries.

That's fair. Karlos Williams has some major issues. The rest of the guys seem pretty clean though.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

You both make rational arguments, but, too often, as fans we tend to rationalize our team's actions.

 

The QB position is too important to ignore the draft as a source for the next franchise guy.

 

As for EJ, yeah he should be developed and given a chance, then why didn't he play the last 2 games last year when the Bills were eliminated from the playoffs ?

 

I wanted the Bills to trade back into the 4th round and take Petty or Hundley.

because Doug Marone was/is an idiot!!!

 

the Bills did not draft a QB so get used to EJ, Meh and Tyrod

Edited May 4, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[birdog1960]

To those being critical of Bill Polian because he is being critical of the Bills failure to find that elusive franchise QB need to understand that Polian found his man with every team in which he was the GM / president.

 

Buffalo Bills GM: 1986-1992 built a team that was the 2-14 bottom feeder, and won the division in three years. Polian managed to make Jim Kelly the highest paid QB in the league, and he came to Buffalo all smiles.

 

Carolina Panthers GM: 1995-1997 took an expansion team to the AFC championship game in two years. Drafted his franchise QB with the 5th overall pick in Kerry Collins who went on to the SB with the NY Giants.

 

Indianapolis Colts president: 1998-2011. 3-13 to 13-3 in one year as president because he took the right QB in Peyton Manning over Ryan Leaf.

 

Its my belief that Polian purposely tanked the 2011 Colts to obtain once in a generation QB Andrew Luck. Manning missed the 2011 season with a neck injury, and Polian knew he wasn't coming back that year. So Bill waited until two weeks before the season opener to sign a veteran backup QB in Kerry Collins, and had to know that wasn't going to be enough time to get him up to speed to field a winning team. The backup QB's were bums in Curtis Painter who started a whole two games previous to 2011, and Dan Orlovsky from Detroit.

 

The interesting thing here that that Manning's long time QB tutor, and mentor in former Colts OC Tom Moore suddenly decided to retire... leaving that world renowned NFL OC Clyde Christensen in charge of the Colts high powered offense. Clyde who? Needless to say the Colts offense went from 4th in points, and 4th in yards to 30th in yards, and 28th in points in 2011. Anyway the Colts owner didn't like the 2-14 record or Polian's son as GM so he fired them both.

 

Anyway, my point is that Polian basically found his franchise QB as soon as he joined the team he was in charge of and looking at his track record of success I'm honestly surprised so many fans here are denigrating his opinion on this subject.

 

Doug Whaley is now in his third season, and the team still doesn't have a clear cut franchise QB or even a decent solid O line for the maybe guys. I have to think if Polian had taken the job of team president / czar the Bills this year he would have already found their franchise QB, someway, somehow.

it's a formula that worked very well for him. if he were are gm and drafted a middle rounf d qb this draft, i suspect most everyone here would have agreed with that decision.

 

but whaley is our gm asnd bills fans are loyal to a fault. he still has much to prove and i hope he does. i'll give him the benefit of the doubt but my confidence in him is no where near where it appears the boards consensus is. i think the skepticism is justified.

[dave mcbride]

Not one of the 20 or so guys they used that strategy did anything for them. They made a trade for Favre they didn't draft the year before. And they made a wise pick of a QB that luckily fell to them they didn't think they would have a chance for and wouldn't have drafted a different QB had Rodgers been taken before.

Matt Hasselbeck was a 6th round pick - 187th overall - in 1998. In March 2001, the Packers traded Hasselback, their first round pick (#17), and their seventh round pick for Seattle's first (#10 overall) and 3rd round picks. Aaron Brooks was a 4th round pick who was later traded for a 3rd round pick. Mark Brunell was drafted in the 5th round and was later traded for a 3rd and 5th rounder. It's not just about the player himself - it's what that player represents in the form of trade value. Jimmy Johnson acquired a king's ransom for Steve Walsh.

 

Between 1992 and 1999, the Packers drafted 8 QBs if you include Favre (seven if you don't). One never knows if a QB will be bust or suffer a debilitating injury. Call me crazy, but I tend to think Ron Wolf has a better handle on the most important in the league than Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley (who I generally like).

 

As for Rodgers and luck, you know what they say: you make your own luck. They weren't required to take him, particularly given how good Favre still was.

Edited May 4, 2015 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

Matt Hasselbeck was a 6th round pick - 187th overall - in 1998. In March 2001, the Packers traded Hasselback, their first round pick (#17), and their seventh round pick for Seattle's first (#10 overall) and 3rd round picks. Aaron Brooks was a 4th round pick who was later traded for a 3rd round pick. Mark Brunell was drafted in the 5th round and was later traded for a 3rd and 5th rounder. It's not just about the player himself - it's what that player represents in the form of trade value. Jimmy Johnson acquired a king's ransom for Steve Walsh.

 

Between 1992 and 1999, the Packers drafted 8 QBs if you include Favre (seven if you don't). One never knows if a QB will be bust or suffer a debilitating injury. Call me crazy, but I tend to think Ron Wolf has a better handle on the most important in the league than Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley (who I generally like).

 

As for Rodgers and luck, you know what they say: you make your own luck. They weren't required to take him, particularly given how good Favre still was.

Those examples are over 20 years ago. I think you are a rational and fairly patient fan. Unfortunately, most aren't. The year the Washington Slurs drafted RG3, they draft Kirk Cousins in the 4th round. For some reason, people thought Cousins is a NFL starting QB despite being drafted in the 4th round. The second RG3 struggled, there were calls to play Cousins. Some even suggested Cousins could get a 1st round pick in a trade. While Cousins played and that talked quickly died down.

 

People don't have patience to develop QBs anymore. They get rushed onto the field, they struggle, and fans want them replaced. The Bills probably see EJ and Taylor just as talented as any of the other QBs in the draft besides the top 2. Cassel is the veteran guy. IMO, they want EJ or Taylor to win the job but have Cassel to be the guy if they don't. So why waste a pick on a QB you don't like? Especially when you have 2 fairly young guys who already have NFL experience (Petty is almost EJ and Taylor's age)?

[Rivermont Mike]

Do you think buying a scratch off ticket every day makes your odds of winning a million dollars better?

^^^FTW

[BuffaloHokie13]

You both make rational arguments, but, too often, as fans we tend to rationalize our team's actions.

 

The QB position is too important to ignore the draft as a source for the next franchise guy.

 

As for EJ, yeah he should be developed and given a chance, then why didn't he play the last 2 games last year when the Bills were eliminated from the playoffs ?

 

I wanted the Bills to trade back into the 4th round and take Petty or Hundley.

The other thing you need to consider is that every pick spent on a failed QB, or a QB who will take at least 2 years to develop into a product you can even put onto the field, is a pick that could have been used on another position, and could possibly be contributing well before the QB even gets a chance. This year I feel like we brought in some solid role players and I think at least 3 will contribute in year 1 (Darby, Miller, O'Leary).

 

I think Williams is good foresight as FredEX is probably on his last year and McCoy only has a few left himself. I don't know much about the OLB from Clemson, but you have to assume Rex does. And Lewis was pretty good value in round 7 since most people had him graded as a round 4-5 guy. I thought we might take a shot on Fajardo or Bridge in round 7, but I can't fault them for taking a big bodied wide receiver who most thought wouldn't be there.

[Kelly the Dog]

Matt Hasselbeck was a 6th round pick - 187th overall - in 1998. In March 2001, the Packers traded Hasselback, their first round pick (#17), and their seventh round pick for Seattle's first (#10 overall) and 3rd round picks. Aaron Brooks was a 4th round pick who was later traded for a 3rd round pick. Mark Brunell was drafted in the 5th round and was later traded for a 3rd and 5th rounder. It's not just about the player himself - it's what that player represents in the form of trade value. Jimmy Johnson acquired a king's ransom for Steve Walsh.

 

Between 1992 and 1999, the Packers drafted 8 QBs if you include Favre (seven if you don't). One never knows if a QB will be bust or suffer a debilitating injury. Call me crazy, but I tend to think Ron Wolf has a better handle on the most important in the league than Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley (who I generally like).

 

As for Rodgers and luck, you know what they say: you make your own luck. They weren't required to take him, particularly given how good Favre still was.

In other words they are wasted picks! You can't say it's a plus that a guy taken in the fourth round of one year is traded for a third round pick a year later. Those things are exactly equal. How is that a good pick. Hasselback later turned out to be a good QB but not for them as was not the main part of the trade, their #1 pick was. Brunel was a 5th rounder which brought a third rounder a year later (and again you lose a round for the year you don't have the guy. So wow, that was a huge haul? The fact is none of them got them much and none of them did a thing for them. Not to mention this was all 15-20 years ago.

 

Yes Wolf is great and better than what we had. But you can't just say he's better and prove it with something that didn't work out for them. I'm not just supporting the Bills and the way they have handled Quarterbacks. It's been abysmal. But I do know that drafting QBs in the third round and later never works. Once in 20 years. Russell Wilson doesn't count.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

I don't see this as being a big deal. Obviously ALL of these guys are project. Look at the teams that drafted Hundley and Grayson. They're not gonna see the field for another 2-3 years unless Rodgers and/or Brees goes down with an injury. If we can draft a QB in next year's draft that's more ready to see the field earlier, then what's the difference? Next year's classs will be MUCH better so we should take one then.

[Coach Tuesday]

In other words they are wasted picks! You can't say it's a plus that a guy taken in the fourth round of one year is traded for a third round pick a year later. Those things are exactly equal. How is that a good pick. Hasselback later turned out to be a good QB but not for them as was not the main part of the trade, their #1 pick was. Brunel was a 5th rounder which brought a third rounder a year later (and again you lose a round for the year you don't have the guy. So wow, that was a huge haul? The fact is none of them got them much and none of them did a thing for them. Not to mention this was all 15-20 years ago.

 

Yes Wolf is great and better than what we had. But you can't just say he's better and prove it with something that didn't work out for them. I'm not just supporting the Bills and the way they have handled Quarterbacks. It's been abysmal. But I do know that drafting QBs in the third round and later never works. Once in 20 years. Russell Wilson doesn't count.

 

It's entirely unfair to call them "wasted picks" - if Favre had gotten injured, those picks would've paid immediate dividends; he didn't, so they paid dividends via trade.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The good news is he didn't have to be critical of the bills for drafting a lousy project qb.

 

This draft was a no win situation.

[Wayne Cubed]

Matt Hasselbeck was a 6th round pick - 187th overall - in 1998. In March 2001, the Packers traded Hasselback, their first round pick (#17), and their seventh round pick for Seattle's first (#10 overall) and 3rd round picks. Aaron Brooks was a 4th round pick who was later traded for a 3rd round pick. Mark Brunell was drafted in the 5th round and was later traded for a 3rd and 5th rounder. It's not just about the player himself - it's what that player represents in the form of trade value. Jimmy Johnson acquired a king's ransom for Steve Walsh.

 

Between 1992 and 1999, the Packers drafted 8 QBs if you include Favre (seven if you don't). One never knows if a QB will be bust or suffer a debilitating injury. Call me crazy, but I tend to think Ron Wolf has a better handle on the most important in the league than Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley (who I generally like).

 

As for Rodgers and luck, you know what they say: you make your own luck. They weren't required to take him, particularly given how good Favre still was.

Right and what did those picks generate? The Hasselback one got the Packers nothing. Jamal Reynolds, who lasted all of 4 seasons in the NFL. Torrance Marshall, lasted 3 years in GB did nothing of note. So wasted those picks... It did nothing for them.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

I am so glad we didnt draft a qb.

 

We will have a 1st round pick next year and I feel that if we did draft a QB this year then the Bills may have wanted to wait and see if our new QB can play.

 

This way if they dont like what they see this year then they can be big players next offseason for a QB

 

 

CBF

[Kelly the Dog]

It's entirely unfair to call them "wasted picks" - if Favre had gotten injured, those picks would've paid immediate dividends; he didn't, so they paid dividends via trade.

I agree. And I don't think it's a bad strategy to choose QBs. But those players did nothing for the Packers. And I don't think good examples of why you take QBs every year. They were washes, not wasted. Even the guys that eventually turn out to be good players at QB from late rounds (and it doesn't really happen any more) do it on other teams because it takes a couple if not several years before they are good.

And I very much doubt any of three players would have been good as rookies if he got hurt. They took 4-5 years.

[GA BILLS FAN]

The QB position is by far the most important position in team sports. Couple that with the fact that there are only 16ish at any given time that can play it at an elite level, makes finding one difficult but essential.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask for the Bills to have a concerted strategy to acquire one.

 

What I've seen in the past decade+ is anything but a prioritization and nothing that resembles an effective strategy.

[Kelly the Dog]

The QB position is by far the most important position in team sports. Couple that with the fact that there are only 16ish at any given time that can play it at an elite level, makes finding one difficult but essential.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask for the Bills to have a concerted strategy to acquire one.

 

What I've seen in the past decade+ is anything but a prioritization and nothing that resembles an effective strategy.

They acquired two. One was a pro bowler. One has four years experience and a different skill set. And likely better than anyone they could have drafted after the second round. They have to get a franchise qb. Obviously. Drafting a 50 or 100 to 1 shot and then having to cut the 10 to 1 shot is not the way to do it.

[eball]

The QB position is by far the most important position in team sports. Couple that with the fact that there are only 16ish at any given time that can play it at an elite level, makes finding one difficult but essential.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask for the Bills to have a concerted strategy to acquire one.

 

What I've seen in the past decade+ is anything but a prioritization and nothing that resembles an effective strategy.

 

2013 -- drafted EJ Manuel in 1st round

2014 -- signed Kyle Orton to be veteran backup/stopgap starter

2015 -- signed Matt Cassell and Tyrod Taylor to compete with Manuel

 

That's not a decade, but over the last three seasons it seems to me they definitely have a concerted strategy to improve at QB.