Heitz Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 I hope he has NFL and catches this clip of Whaley explaining why we didn't draft a QB: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/GM-Doug-Whaley-on-why-the-Bills-didnt-draft-a-QB/57a5dcb3-f3e5-450d-9721-1308eb84ae3f?campaign=fb_buf_video (And in the next video the give us a decent grade, they must have been watching a different draft that most of the media / half of TBD).
thewildrabbit Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 I would be against adding another layer of authority in the management structure of the team. From what I read he was interested in the position while his family was adamantly opposed. They collectively felt that it was time for him at his stage in life and family situation involving the grand kids that he should be lightening up the load instead of adding to the load. He said that while he was enticed by the offer he felt that he owed it to his family that had sacrificed for him to decline the offer. Based on Polian's comments regarding the team's draft I agree with you that if he were in a position of authority he would have insisted and acted on upgrading the qb position. He would have been very much proactive either through the draft or through trade deals to address that long term issue that has plagued this franchise. Anyone who watched him on ESPN commenting on the Bills' qb situation would have noticed the conviction he had and the sadness/disappointment that nothing much has been done to change the situation. I think the one place the team needs a layer of authority is at the top of the org chart in the form of a president of football operations aka an Ozzie Newsome, or even Packers GM Ted Thompson hired and promoted to team president. Bill Polian would have fit the role, and he could have found a qualified successor should he want to retire. Russ Brandon is still the teams president, and not just for the financial side. He may defer to Whaley but he has no business being in charge of the football operations side of the team. From my view there is a definitive hole in the offensive talent evaluation process that can't be filled with a marketing guy. This team needs someone that knows QB talent, and who to acquire and at what price. The team still has big question marks involving the O line after three years. Otherwise the current HC wouldn't be out chasing another G/T. This new owner has no experience in running an NFL team and should be deferring to an experienced football man instead of being at the top of the flow chart. JMO.
JohnC Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) I think the one place the team needs a layer of authority is at the top of the org chart in the form of a president of football operations aka an Ozzie Newsome, or even Packers GM Ted Thompson hired and promoted to team president. Bill Polian would have fit the role, and he could have found a qualified successor should he want to retire. Russ Brandon is still the teams president, and not just for the financial side. He may defer to Whaley but he has no business being in charge of the football operations side of the team. From my view there is a definitive hole in the offensive talent evaluation process that can't be filled with a marketing guy. This team needs someone that knows QB talent, and who to acquire and at what price. The team still has big question marks involving the O line after three years. Otherwise the current HC wouldn't be out chasing another G/T. This new owner has no experience in running an NFL team and should be deferring to an experienced football man instead of being at the top of the flow chart. JMO. Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson are classic GMs who run the football operation. That is the position that Whaley has. I still believe that adding another layer of authority, formal or informal, is a recipe for conflict. Bill Polian is at an age where 80 hr work weeks is simply too strenuous. Also, Polian is a strong-willed person and very combative. If there would be a divergence of opinion between Whaley and his staff with Wild Bill you can be sure that the feathers will fly. If Whaley fails to address the team vulnerabilities such as the qb position and the OL then ultimately he will be held accountable. That is how it should be. Don't be fooled by Pegula's lack of knowledge of football. He is not a wallflower. He invested more than a $1 B in order to be successful on the field. His approach, as exhibited by his ownership of the hockey team, is to allow those who are running the show to do their jobs and then hold them accountable. The regime currently running the hockey team is not the same regime when he bought the franchise. I disagree with your view on Russ Brandon's role with the franchise. He is running the overall business but he is not involved with the football operation. It wasn't that way when Ralph had him take over the football operation after the Levy fiasco. After a year he smartly removed himself from the football side of the business and got involved with managing the overall business. A lot of people are critical of Brandon but I think he is excellent at marketing and managing the organization. Pegula was very wise in keeping RB involved in managing the franchise. Edited May 6, 2015 by JohnC
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 A scouting report for tyrod taylor coming out of college. Color me concerned that the coach is apparently high on him as our starting qb. Talk about repeating one's previous mistakes: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/1243338. I hope Leroi is wrong about this ...
White Linen Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 I think the one place the team needs a layer of authority is at the top of the org chart in the form of a president of football operations aka an Ozzie Newsome, or even Packers GM Ted Thompson hired and promoted to team president. Bill Polian would have fit the role, and he could have found a qualified successor should he want to retire. Russ Brandon is still the teams president, and not just for the financial side. He may defer to Whaley but he has no business being in charge of the football operations side of the team. From my view there is a definitive hole in the offensive talent evaluation process that can't be filled with a marketing guy. This team needs someone that knows QB talent, and who to acquire and at what price. The team still has big question marks involving the O line after three years. Otherwise the current HC wouldn't be out chasing another G/T. This new owner has no experience in running an NFL team and should be deferring to an experienced football man instead of being at the top of the flow chart. JMO. This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've read in a while. You're not comfortable with our organizational chart? They ran this off season in the most professional way we've seen maybe in the history of our franchise. They are clearly all on the same page and communication is at an all time high. The fact our HC was the only one to get a dinner with Collins is proof that they are at the front of every opportunity to make this team better. Polian not coming was the only inadvertent great move we've experienced.
thewildrabbit Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson are classic GMs who run the football operation. That is the position that Whaley has. I still believe that adding another layer of authority, formal or informal, is a recipe for conflict. Bill Polian is at an age where 80 hr work weeks is simply too strenuous. Also, Polian is a strong-willed person and very combative. If there would be a divergence of opinion between Whaley and his staff with Wild Bill you can be sure that the feathers will fly. If Whaley fails to address the team vulnerabilities such as the qb position and the OL then ultimately he will be held accountable. That is how it should be. Don't be fooled by Pegula's lack of knowledge of football. He is not a wallflower. He invested more than a $1 B in order to be successful on the field. His approach, as exhibited by his ownership of the hockey team, is to allow those who are running the show to do their jobs and then hold them accountable. The regime currently running the hockey team is not the same regime when he bought the franchise. I disagree with your view on Russ Brandon's role with the franchise. He is running the overall business but he is not involved with the football operation. It wasn't that way when Ralph had him take over the football operation after the Levy fiasco. After a year he smartly removed himself from the football side of the business and got involved with managing the overall business. A lot of people are critical of Brandon but I think he is excellent at marketing and managing the organization. Pegula was very wise in keeping RB involved in managing the franchise. Jeez John, its been three years and the O line is still a huge question mark! How many years will it take to replace an average offensive guard who was very good at pass blocking, and below average at run blocking? The longest it took Polian to win the division was three years, and this GM can't find a decent replacement OG in that amount of time... much less the franchise QB. If Whaley knew there was a problem with EJ last off season when he signed Kyle Orton. Then he should have the courage of his convictions and drafted Derek Carr or Teddy Bridgewater. I get the distinct impression that Whaley, and his current scouting staff just doesn't know offensive talent. They simply don't know the difference between a quality pre NFL O lineman, and guys that can't even get on an NFL field. It was disheartening to me that those rookies couldn't even beat out waiver wire scrubs like Pears / Urbik. Then to identify top pro talent in free agency, and then give up rebuilding the line entirely in free agency when they couldn't obtain the top players they had targeted. Lastly, please don't compare the Sabres to the Bills or I'm going to get completely discouraged about the future of the Buffalo Bills. Its been five long years since Pegula bought the Sabres, and their best season was the first after he took over the team from Golisano. I keep hearing that the Sabres have some of the best young players in the league, and yet keep finishing poorly or in last place. Whats kinda scary is that Pegula has stated he is more of a hockey fan then a football fan, and that he knows more about hockey. How many regime changes does it take to find the right man to build a winner when money is no object? Terry Pegula has no real viable reason for being at the top of the football operations flow chart, and neither does Mr dancing on the Yacht. JMO.
eball Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 I would be against adding another layer of authority in the management structure of the team. From what I read he was interested in the position while his family was adamantly opposed. They collectively felt that it was time for him at his stage in life and family situation involving the grand kids that he should be lightening up the load instead of adding to the load. He said that while he was enticed by the offer he felt that he owed it to his family that had sacrificed for him to decline the offer. Based on Polian's comments regarding the team's draft I agree with you that if he were in a position of authority he would have insisted and acted on upgrading the qb position. He would have been very much proactive either through the draft or through trade deals to address that long term issue that has plagued this franchise. Anyone who watched him on ESPN commenting on the Bills' qb situation would have noticed the conviction he had and the sadness/disappointment that nothing much has been done to change the situation. Except: -- changing HC, OC, QB coach, OL coach -- trading for Cassel -- signing Taylor -- adding McCoy, Harvin, Clay, Felton -- dedicating themselves to a run-heavy scheme Yeah, not much was done to address the QB situation.
JohnC Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Except: -- changing HC, OC, QB coach, OL coach -- trading for Cassel -- signing Taylor -- adding McCoy, Harvin, Clay, Felton -- dedicating themselves to a run-heavy scheme Yeah, not much was done to address the QB situation. The former HC and OC have nothing to do with the limitations of EJ. You can blame the former coaches for Manuel's ineffectiveness but that did not and could not overcome his limitations. Don't be surprised if this new staff comes to the same conclusion regarding his prospects as a franchise qb as the former staff does. We disagree on this issue. I credit Marrone for being decisive in making an obvious determination on EJ while you don't. Cassel is a pedestrian backup at best. He was brought in because the franchise needed a veteran presence at that position. If you believe that he is a legitimate long term franchise starter then you are being very wishful. Tyrod Taylor might become the starter by default. Is he a long term starter? I doubt it. But maybe he can pay dividends. As it stands what the new HC wants out of his starting qb is for him to play intelligently and not set it back. When you have limited players all you can ask them to do is to play within their acknowledged limitations. Your others comments regarding players that the organization brought in don't address what I was discussing i.e. a viable long term franchise qb.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 The former HC and OC have nothing to do with the limitations of EJ. You can blame the former coaches for Manuel's ineffectiveness but that did not and could not overcome his limitations. Don't be surprised if this new staff comes to the same conclusion regarding his prospects as a franchise qb as the former staff does. We disagree on this issue. I credit Marrone for being decisive in making an obvious determination on EJ while you don't. Cassel is a pedestrian backup at best. He was brought in because the franchise needed a veteran presence at that position. If you believe that he is a legitimate long term franchise starter then you are being very wishful. Tyrod Taylor might become the starter by default. Is he a long term starter? I doubt it. But maybe he can pay dividends. As it stands what the new HC wants out of his starting qb is for him to play intelligently and not set it back. When you have limited players all you can ask them to do is to play within their acknowledged limitations. Your others comments regarding players that the organization brought in don't address what I was discussing i.e. a viable long term franchise qb. While I mostly agree that their effects are overstated, our offensive scheme has a lot to do with the offense's success
JohnC Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Jeez John, its been three years and the O line is still a huge question mark! How many years will it take to replace an average offensive guard who was very good at pass blocking, and below average at run blocking? The longest it took Polian to win the division was three years, and this GM can't find a decent replacement OG in that amount of time... much less the franchise QB. If Whaley knew there was a problem with EJ last off season when he signed Kyle Orton. Then he should have the courage of his convictions and drafted Derek Carr or Teddy Bridgewater. I get the distinct impression that Whaley, and his current scouting staff just doesn't know offensive talent. They simply don't know the difference between a quality pre NFL O lineman, and guys that can't even get on an NFL field. It was disheartening to me that those rookies couldn't even beat out waiver wire scrubs like Pears / Urbik. Then to identify top pro talent in free agency, and then give up rebuilding the line entirely in free agency when they couldn't obtain the top players they had targeted. Lastly, please don't compare the Sabres to the Bills or I'm going to get completely discouraged about the future of the Buffalo Bills. Its been five long years since Pegula bought the Sabres, and their best season was the first after he took over the team from Golisano. I keep hearing that the Sabres have some of the best young players in the league, and yet keep finishing poorly or in last place. Whats kinda scary is that Pegula has stated he is more of a hockey fan then a football fan, and that he knows more about hockey. How many regime changes does it take to find the right man to build a winner when money is no object? Terry Pegula has no real viable reason for being at the top of the football operations flow chart, and neither does Mr dancing on the Yacht. JMO. The owner and hockey franchise have the right strategy in doing a major rebuild. They basically stripped the team of players and starting rebuilding from scratch. It is a painful process that takes time. Without a doubt it can be excruciating to watch. Steadily they are adding young players from their system and from making deals that will ultimately pay dividends. Instead of stagnating for a long time as a middle of the pack type team the franchise made a decision to completely deconstruct in order to reconstruct. If one doesn't have patience then one will be very disappointed. If one has patience then one can see what they are doing and also appreciate what they are doing. In a few years they are going to be one of the top tier teams in hockey. It takes times and wisdom. While I mostly agree that their effects are overstated, our offensive scheme has a lot to do with the offense's success The HC and OC were working with the worst OL in the league and with the least talented qbing in the league. Scheme and strategy don't trump, and will never trump, a gross lack of talent on offense. I have watched pro football for a very long time. Our OL was constantly overwhelmed not because of the scheme but because too many of the players were incapable and not ready to play at that level. The former unlikeable HC got a very flawed team (on offense) to a 9-7 record. If the team improves it will mostly be due to an upgrade of talent.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) The HC and OC were working with the worst OL in the league and with the least talented qbing in the league. Scheme and strategy don't trump, and will never trump, a gross lack of talent on offense. I have watched pro football for a very long time. Our OL was constantly overwhelmed not because of the scheme but because too many of the players were incapable and not ready to play at that level. The former unlikeable HC got a very flawed team (on offense) to a 9-7 record. If the team improves it will mostly be due to an upgrade of talent. So our ex-HC was an OL specialist who couldn't get consistent OL play despite bringing in his 'type' of players, but it's not his fault? Edited May 6, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13
Nanker Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Haha. When you can't argue statistics, go with the eye test! If EJ doesn't win the job, the excuses are done and it's time to move on. He can shut a lot of people up if he can step up. Agreed.
JohnC Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) So our ex-HC was an OL specialist who couldn't get consistent OL play despite bringing in his 'type' of players, but it's not his fault? The HC asks for his type of players. The GM brings in the players. Glenn had a poor year maybe attributable to his offseason undisclosed illness. Richardson was overwhelmed. Woods had a subpar year certainly affected by the players he was playing alongsdie. Pears was not mobile and was a below average player to begin with and clearly was declining. Henderson is a physical talent who wasn't ready to start. Kujo was a second round pick who was so overwhelmed that if he was a lower round pick he would have been an early cut. Don't buy into that easy excuse argument which (I find to be lame) that the problems associated with the OL and qbing were mostly attributable to the dour HC. In the end the talent level determines success. When there is a lack of talent don't be surprised that there is a surplus of failure. Edited May 6, 2015 by JohnC
eball Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 The former HC and OC have nothing to do with the limitations of EJ. You can blame the former coaches for Manuel's ineffectiveness but that did not and could not overcome his limitations. Don't be surprised if this new staff comes to the same conclusion regarding his prospects as a franchise qb as the former staff does. We disagree on this issue. I credit Marrone for being decisive in making an obvious determination on EJ while you don't. Cassel is a pedestrian backup at best. He was brought in because the franchise needed a veteran presence at that position. If you believe that he is a legitimate long term franchise starter then you are being very wishful. Tyrod Taylor might become the starter by default. Is he a long term starter? I doubt it. But maybe he can pay dividends. As it stands what the new HC wants out of his starting qb is for him to play intelligently and not set it back. When you have limited players all you can ask them to do is to play within their acknowledged limitations. Your others comments regarding players that the organization brought in don't address what I was discussing i.e. a viable long term franchise qb. I agree that we disagree regarding Manuel -- you have already made the decision he can't do the job, while I believe it's still an open question and he received piss-poor coaching from Marrone and Hackett. While the Bills' long-term franchise QB may still not be on the roster, re-structuring the focus of the offense with the additions noted is indeed addressing the QB situation. I continue to also come back to the fact that outside of Mariota and Winston, no QBs available in this draft are more likely to be long-term solutions than EJ or Taylor, and none of them would improve the team's prospects this year.
Bill from NYC Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 The HC asks for his type of players. The GM brings in the players. Glenn had a poor year maybe attributable to his offseason undisclosed illness. Richardson was overwhelmed. Woods had a subpar year certainly affected by the players he was playing alongsdie. Pears was not mobile and was a below average player to begin with and clearly was declining. Henderson is a physical talent who wasn't ready to start. Kujo was a second round pick who was so overwhelmed that if he was a lower round pick he would have been an early cut. Don't buy into that easy excuse argument which (I find to be lame) that the problems associated with the OL and qbing were mostly attributable to the dour HC. In the end the talent level determines success. When there is a lack of talent don't be surprised that there is a surplus of failure. Losing Levitre truly did hurt the team. As I recall a couple of posters predicted this would happen.
Wayne Cubed Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 The HC asks for his type of players. The GM brings in the players. Glenn had a poor year maybe attributable to his offseason undisclosed illness. Richardson was overwhelmed. Woods had a subpar year certainly affected by the players he was playing alongsdie. Pears was not mobile and was a below average player to begin with and clearly was declining. Henderson is a physical talent who wasn't ready to start. Kujo was a second round pick who was so overwhelmed that if he was a lower round pick he would have been an early cut. Don't buy into that easy excuse argument which (I find to be lame) that the problems associated with the OL and qbing were mostly attributable to the dour HC. In the end the talent level determines success. When there is a lack of talent don't be surprised that there is a surplus of failure. So basically, you think Aaron Rodgers would have developed into the QB he is on any team in the NFL? Mike McCarthy and Tom Clements recognized that he was throwing the ball incorrectly and inefficiently and then changed it, which ultimately led him to be the QB he is today. You think every team would recognize this and do that?
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Losing Levitre truly did hurt the team. As I recall a couple of posters predicted this would happen. Levitre has been a giant bust for Titans. As many posters have said, losing LEvitre wasn't the problem. He's not close to as good as you think. It was that they were terrible at replacing him.
eball Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 The HC asks for his type of players. The GM brings in the players. Glenn had a poor year maybe attributable to his offseason undisclosed illness. Richardson was overwhelmed. Woods had a subpar year certainly affected by the players he was playing alongsdie. Pears was not mobile and was a below average player to begin with and clearly was declining. Henderson is a physical talent who wasn't ready to start. Kujo was a second round pick who was so overwhelmed that if he was a lower round pick he would have been an early cut. Don't buy into that easy excuse argument which (I find to be lame) that the problems associated with the OL and qbing were mostly attributable to the dour HC. In the end the talent level determines success. When there is a lack of talent don't be surprised that there is a surplus of failure. It's been made pretty clear that Marrone couldn't leave well enough alone with respect to the OL. Eric Wood said there were (to paraphrase) "too many cooks in the kitchen." The coaching was sub-par. You make some valid points about talent, but better coaches have done more with less.
chris heff Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 How exactly were the Bills supposed to do more at the QB position? We have no idea what they may have tried. It's easy to say just trade for Rivers or Bradford. What would it take to get Rivers? And would the Chargers even entertain the idea of trading him? The Bills didn't have a QB like Foles to include in a trade package, so what would the Rams have wanted for Bradford? Should they have traded away the next two years draft for Wnston or Mariota? And who's to say the Bucs or Titans were interested? So then what draft another project QB? There is already three of those on the roster. The only sure think they could have done is over draft one of those second tier guys, and then what would be the reaction of pundits or this board.
Bill from NYC Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Levitre has been a giant bust for Titans. As many posters have said, losing LEvitre wasn't the problem. He's not close to as good as you think. It was that they were terrible at replacing him. Injuries CB, injuries. In Buffalo he was extremely durable. Seriously, how many games did he miss? I credit him with helping Glenn develop, and Glenn's play did fall off after Levitre's departure. I would take him back in an instant IF I knew he was healthy. CB, the Bills DO make a mistake every now and then, ya know?
Recommended Posts