Kelly the Dog Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Steve Young was Luck's equal. He had legit 4.5 speed, a GREAT arm, incredible accuracy, and a very high level of intelligence. He retired as the highest rated passer in NFL history, although Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, and Payton Manning are now 1-2-3 in that category (with the latter 2 just slightly ahead of Young). Brees scans the field far better than Wilson and moves his feet better in the pocket. He's also more accurate. Steve Young is his equal, yes. IMO, Steve Young is the best QB ever, for those reasons you gave. Russell Wilson is Steve Young minus 4-5 inches of height and some commensurate weight. I don't necessarily agree with the Brees stuff. I would say he scans the field better because he has to, he can't escape. So Wilson will look to run or scramble. Brees may move his feet better in the pocket but it's similar to the first one, and Wilson is actually great at his feet in the pocket, that's specifically why his height doesn't affect him much. He moves slightly side to side and gets the lanes clear. That's exactly what Brees does and why his height doesn't affect him much either. I call that a wash. I don't think Brees is much more accurate. They're both very accurate, especially on the long ball.
Buftex Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 If Petty was as good as EJ, why did he go 3 rounds later? Not to mention a busted up back, knee injury...and more than one pretty nasty concussion.
GG Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Yet, Bortles had a worse rookie season than EJ; Carr was equal to at best (though 58% on 5.49 ypa is terrible); and Bridgewater had a slightly better rookie year than EJ. This just in. The Bills aren't giving up on a 25 year old qb after 14 starts. Good for them. No matter how many times you repeat the meme won't make it more true. There's only so much blame you can lay on Marrone, but he wasn't thrilled with EJ's play in 2013, and certainly wasn't thrilled with his camp performance in 2014. You can ascribe whatever you want to it, but EJ got worse from his rookie year to his second year, even though he was healthier and apparently spent the off season with his guru, and was still bad in camp. Of the three QBs you mention, all passed the eye test better than EJ, and there is little question about their ability to progress. The same couldn't be said about EJ's first year, and even you still speak of him as a developing player who just needs a chance. Look at it this way, Vikes think enough of Bridgewater that they traded his backup who will likely be Bills starter on Day 1
YoloinOhio Posted May 4, 2015 Author Posted May 4, 2015 The "eye test" = still undefeated on TSW. The Money Mayweather of QB analysis, if you will.
John from Riverside Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Yet, Bortles had a worse rookie season than EJ; Carr was equal to at best (though 58% on 5.49 ypa is terrible); and Bridgewater had a slightly better rookie year than EJ. This just in. The Bills aren't giving up on a 25 year old qb after 14 starts. Good for them. I just wanna say I am glad that this went the way it did........ I really wanna know if EJ is or isnt a NFL QB before we move away from him.
JohnC Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Brees is a great, great QB. He's not even close to Russell Wilson as far as doing all of the things a QB can do. Wilson has a stronger arm, much better runner, much better scrambler, much better on zone reads, stronger physically, faster, probably a better ball handler (although Brees is good). What I meant by never is that there really has been no one that does every single thing well other than Luck. He's a freak and a fluke. Perhaps less than zero. There has never been anyone like him in the first hundred years. That doesn't mean he is the best, he's clearly not. Just that there has never been anyone like him. That is why he is a fluke and why there will never be another. I suppose it's possible in the never say never category. But it's one in a million, which is never. John Elway. I belatedly noticed that McBride smartly mentioned Steve Young. So I will add a younger version of John Elway before he was beaten up and battered. Edited May 4, 2015 by JohnC
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 No matter how many times you repeat the meme won't make it more true. There's only so much blame you can lay on Marrone, but he wasn't thrilled with EJ's play in 2013, and certainly wasn't thrilled with his camp performance in 2014. You can ascribe whatever you want to it, but EJ got worse from his rookie year to his second year, even though he was healthier and apparently spent the off season with his guru, and was still bad in camp. Of the three QBs you mention, all passed the eye test better than EJ, and there is little question about their ability to progress. The same couldn't be said about EJ's first year, and even you still speak of him as a developing player who just needs a chance. Look at it this way, Vikes think enough of Bridgewater that they traded his backup who will likely be Bills starter on Day 1 Haha. When you can't argue statistics, go with the eye test! I just wanna say I am glad that this went the way it did........ I really wanna know if EJ is or isnt a NFL QB before we move away from him. If EJ doesn't win the job, the excuses are done and it's time to move on. He can shut a lot of people up if he can step up.
dave mcbride Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) The eye is stupid in baseball, but it's not in football. In football, through the all-22 you can see the plays that aren't made and aren't even tried -- and which consequently can't be quantified. The criticism of the "eye test" as it applies to QBs is pretty simple-minded, in my opinion. Stats of course matter, and they matter a lot. But there are a ton of guys who got dumped despite having decent or at least ordinary stats - Rick Mirer, Cade McNown, Jason Campbell (the list is endless) -- because they simply didn't pass the eye test. They didn't make plays that were there to made and which were visible to the naked eye but don't show up on stat sheets. Edited May 4, 2015 by dave mcbride
GG Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Haha. When you can't argue statistics, go with the eye test! If EJ doesn't win the job, the excuses are done and it's time to move on. He can shut a lot of people up if he can step up. Because statistics lie a lot more frequently than the eye test. You have a coach who's had the pleasure of game planning against EJ for two years, and he was very vocal about the paucity of the Bills QB situation as soon as he signed. Why don't you argue EJ's statistics with Ryan and see how far that gets you?
KOKBILLS Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 No matter how many times you repeat the meme won't make it more true. There's only so much blame you can lay on Marrone, but he wasn't thrilled with EJ's play in 2013, and certainly wasn't thrilled with his camp performance in 2014. You can ascribe whatever you want to it, but EJ got worse from his rookie year to his second year, even though he was healthier and apparently spent the off season with his guru, and was still bad in camp. I'm not saying I disagree necessarily...But right or wrong at this point we as Bills fans have to believe Marrone and Hackett were exactly the reason EJ did not get much better... And I think there is evidence in favor of that possibility...The Offense they placed him in was a run 1st Offense that could not run with an O-Line that progressively got worse in pass protection as well...It seemed like a poorly executed Offense overall...Not exactly a perfect scenario for a young QB...It took a 9 year vet to come in and make it barely respectable...And he could only do so much... I'm not saying EJ will ever amount to a thing...I am saying there are plenty of folks around here who recognized quickly that Marrone and Hackett were woefully over-matched as NFL coaches...So...we'll see...EJ is now running an Offense with an OC that has proven himself in the actual NFL...He's a 1st round pick with potential and he's only 25...At the absolute very least I want to see what the kid can do under Roman before I make any judgement on them for not taking a flyer on Petty or any other QB they could have had in the 2nd or 3rd round...We'll see how it plays out...
JohnC Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I just wanna say I am glad that this went the way it did........ I really wanna know if EJ is or isnt a NFL QB before we move away from him. What was seen in last year's training sessions, camp and preseason indicated to the staff that he was lacking. Some people very often imply that Marrone acted out of spite in his rather quick and damning assessment of EJ. I don't buy that notion. Is the staff going to allow EJ to fairly compete on an even handed level? I don't think so. My belief is that especially with what Rex had to deal with Geno Smith last year with the Jets that he is going to be more comfortable relying on an experienced qb such as Cassel rather than trust the rawer young qb. I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrod Taylor becomes the backup with Manuel sliding out of the picture. The eye is stupid in baseball, but it's not in football. In football, through the all-22 you can see the plays that aren't made and aren't even tried -- and which consequently can't be quantified. The criticism of the "eye test" as it applies to QBs is pretty simple-minded, in my opinion. Stats of course matter, and they matter a lot. But there are a ton of guys who got dumped despite having decent or at least ordinary stats - Rick Mirer, Cade McNown, Jason Campbell (the list is endless) -- because they simply didn't pass the eye test. They didn't make plays that were there to made and which were visible to the naked eye but don't show up on stat sheets. Your comparison to Jason Cambell is excellent. Excellent physical attributes that don't match on field performances. Good enough to stay in the league as a vagabound backup but not good enough to secure a starting position. Utility as a player but never becomes an essential player that is valued by a franchise.
Leroi Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 People here seem to have a short memory. EJ was so bad he LULLED us to sleep, when he wasn't, he would injure himself. He is not going to miraculously turn it around. All this hype is just PC, he will not seriously be considered. Lets just pull the band-aid off and find his replacement, we should have drafted one, I agree with Polian. How do you ignore the most important position on the field??? Imo
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 People here seem to have a short memory. EJ was so bad he LULLED us to sleep, when he wasn't, he would injure himself. He is not going to miraculously turn it around. All this hype is just PC, he will not seriously be considered. Lets just pull the band-aid off and find his replacement, we should have drafted one, I agree with Polian. How do you ignore the most important position on the field??? Imo So I take it you don't like Tyrod as much as Rex does?
billsfan1959 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 No matter how many times you repeat the meme won't make it more true. There's only so much blame you can lay on Marrone, but he wasn't thrilled with EJ's play in 2013, and certainly wasn't thrilled with his camp performance in 2014. You can ascribe whatever you want to it, but EJ got worse from his rookie year to his second year, even though he was healthier and apparently spent the off season with his guru, and was still bad in camp. Of the three QBs you mention, all passed the eye test better than EJ, and there is little question about their ability to progress. The same couldn't be said about EJ's first year, and even you still speak of him as a developing player who just needs a chance. Look at it this way, Vikes think enough of Bridgewater that they traded his backup who will likely be Bills starter on Day 1 So did, virtually, the entire offensive side of the ball in that same span. But, I'm sure it was just EJ....
K-9 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 John Elway. I belatedly noticed that McBride smartly mentioned Steve Young. So I will add a younger version of John Elway before he was beaten up and battered. John Elway is still the highest rated prospect ever. As in... Ever. GO BILLS!!!
Leroi Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) So I take it you don't like Tyrod as much as Rex does? I have been hearing Tyrod is the Favorite, he is really impressing everyone. Currently; 1. Tyrod 2. Cassel 3. EJ Lets just pull the band aid off for EJ, hell; and Freddie. Imo Edited May 4, 2015 by Leroi
billsfan1959 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 People here seem to have a short memory. EJ was so bad he LULLED us to sleep, when he wasn't, he would injure himself. He is not going to miraculously turn it around. All this hype is just PC, he will not seriously be considered. Lets just pull the band-aid off and find his replacement, we should have drafted one, I agree with Polian. How do you ignore the most important position on the field??? Imo We are all entitled to our opinions. However, your dislike for Manuel seems to border on the personal in many of your posts.
Leroi Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 We are all entitled to our opinions. However, your dislike for Manuel seems to border on the personal in many of your posts. Yes you are, I never implied you weren't entitled to your opinion. I implied some members have terrible memories. I like EJ as a person, he is a very polite, likable guy. However, as a player, not so much... I believe it is time to turn the page... Imo
dave mcbride Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) I have been hearing Tyrod is the Favorite, he is really impressing everyone. Currently; 1. Tyrod 2. Cassel 3. EJ Lets just pull the band aid off for EJ, hell; and Freddie. Imo If Taylor is good, that would be great. Why did the Ravens let him go though? Wouldn't they have had the right to pick up his year five option? I don't know how it works for late round picks. Interestingly, EJ and Taylor grew up in the same area (Virginia Beach-Hampton-Norfolk). Edited May 4, 2015 by dave mcbride
Fixxxer Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 The RB position seems crowded at the moment - but either before this year or next years season begins it will look a lot different. We are re-loading. The smart teams stay ahead of these situations and bring in rookies to play later when it's time to move away from a veteran (more expensive contract) to sign your key players. I know that probably this is Fred's last year but why the hurry of thinking ahead on a position that a rookie can pick up rather quickly. It seems like we never look ahead on more important positions like QB, DL or OL.
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