eball Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 seriously.., he's a back up qb who played like 15 reg season snaps. What kind of trade do you think he could have made for him? None...he was a FA.
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 I no long care what Polian has to say. He was asked to come help us, agreed to come and then pulled out at the last minute. Now he can help us by shutting up.
Ted William's frozen head Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) I'm with you there. I'm glad this class of QBs sucked for just that reason. He's not correct. Drafting a QB every year is a silly philosophy that has no place in an NFL front office's strategy. Ever. There's not enough reps, or time, or opportunity for multiple QBs to distinguish themselves as either "the guy" or "trade bait" if your'e taking one every year. We have 3 QBs on the roster, you may not agree that any of them are "the guy" (and I'd agree) but they're all better than anyone taken after the 2nd pick in the draft. Wasting a high pick (2nd or 3rd rounder) on a QB just to take a QB is a stupid philosophy and unworkable in reality. Right. As I mentioned, the Patriots did not need a QB, in 2000, but drafted a sixth rounder anyway. Seems to me that worked out fairly well for them. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Here we have a blue chip team,and no one in the driver's seat to lead it..... The Bills continue to swing in the dark, and p!ss in the wind @ the QB position... Edited May 3, 2015 by Ted William's frozen head
Kelly the Dog Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Right. As I mentioned, the Patriots did not need a QB, in 2000, but drafted a sixth rounder anyway. Seems to me that worked out fairly well for them. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Here we have a blue chip team,and no one in the driver's seat to lead it..... The Bills continue to swing in the dark, and p!ss in the wind @ the QB position... Name all the late round QBs from the draft that became franchise QBs in the last 20 years. Oh, right, you just did.
MRW Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 this. so are we agreed that a 1st round qb is ,at best, a 50/50 proposition? that the odds aren't all that much longer for a mid round pick? i think recent history bears that out. Then why not go best available mid round qb til you find one? what's that vaunted bills anaytics dept been up to? there must be a statistical analysis on drafting a qb…any fool can tell you that drafting one is the most commonly successful method. you have to actually draft some in order to find one. If the bolded were true, I'd agree with you. But I think you're significantly overestimating the chances of hitting on a mid-round qb pick.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 If the bolded were true, I'd agree with you. But I think you're significantly overestimating the chances of hitting on a mid-round qb pick. It happens once in a generation and it already happened this generation.
YoloinOhio Posted May 3, 2015 Author Posted May 3, 2015 None...he was a FA. Exactly - yet he must apparently be not worth signing because Ozzie da gawd let him "walk for nothing."
It's in My Blood Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 me neither, but why not elevate the odds of finding a good QB by drafting one every year. Definitely agree with OP and Fixxer's post.
peterpan Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) That's good since Ozzie drafted him Actually, this method only works if you truly know who the most talented player is after the 1st round, and take him with hindsight-type accuracy. Because in your example, we would have gotten Brock Osweiler ahead of Wilson, as he was taken a half round before Wilson.Well at the time of that draft, I told my friends Wilson was a stud and would be a top five pick if he were taller. I also said I would take him too bc I don't care about his height he is that good. So I guess it would also depend on who is calling the shot, ie who is the GM. This applies to the EJ oil as that was pretty I'll-advised. The main point is still true, we will never draft a franchise QB if we never draft QBs. Edited May 3, 2015 by peterpan
YoloinOhio Posted May 3, 2015 Author Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Well at the time of that draft, I told my friends Wilson was a stud and would be a top five pick if he were taller. I also said I would take him too bc I don't care about his height he is that good. So I guess it would also depend on who is calling the shot, ie who is the GM. This applies to the EJ oil as that was pretty I'll-advised. The main point is still true, we will never draft a franchise QB if we never draft QBs. They should draft QBs. But only if they believe the QB can become an NFL starter in a reasonable period of time for how their position group is structured. If they don't have a Rogers or Brees to hold down the fort for years while you develop a guy, no need to add another project unless the value is there. There were no QBs beneath the top 2 projected to be more than a back up in the near future and as a long term project, they wouldn't be in the "disciple" situation that Grayson and Hundley are. They were drafted to thise teams for a reason. They have time. That's why the Browns did not take one either. Like the Bills, they have plenty of projects and backup QBs. I'm guessing the Bills had about a 4th rd grade on Grayson, 5th on Petty and Mannion and 6th on Hundley. It sounded like they were open to taking one at the right value, but no need to reach and waste a pick earlier when you have better players available who could help you sooner. The Jets were criticized for reaching because they only have 2 QBs right now. Unlike Buffalo they didn't add in FA other than the "vet bridge guy" so had to burn a 4th. Petty could end up like Barkley and Nassib, and he's more of a project than they were Imo. Unless EJ has a breakthrough season that shows he has developed into the franchise guy and leads the team to the playoffs, they should draft an actual NFL- ready qb in the 1st rd next year no matter what. They should do the same no matter what Cassell does if he starts. I don't care if he goes 19-0. Franchise QBs are drafted high and developed more often than not. Edited May 3, 2015 by YoloinOhio
1billsfan Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Well at the time of that draft, I told my friends Wilson was a stud and would be a top five pick if he were taller. I also said I would take him too bc I don't care about his height he is that good. So I guess it would also depend on who is calling the shot, ie who is the GM. This applies to the EJ oil as that was pretty I'll-advised. The main point is still true, we will never draft a franchise QB if we never draft QBs. Do you realize how old in the tooth the top drafted QBs are? Brady, P. Manning, Brees, Rothlesberger, Rivers and E. Manning are old. Finding a franchise QB through the draft is like hitting the lottery. Where are all these franchise QBs that have been found since that 2004 draft? I think you guys are just frustrated because the Bills haven’t been one of the lucky ones. Because the NFL draft has provided only Rodgers, Luck, Wilson and Flacco since that 2004 draft. That’s it. That’s like 4 out of what? 100 drafted QBs since 2004? BTW, I don’t consider Newton, Stafford or Dalton as top franchise QBs until they prove they can start winning playoffs games. That’s the real test of having an "NFL franchise QB". The Bills drafted their potential franchise QB in the first round of the 2013 draft. He was a known "project" QB. It's year three and they are giving him his third year to prove he has it or he doesn't have it. It's not like the Bills didn't try. They did using a first round pick and there is still the chance that Whaley will be proven right pushing for the Bills to draft Manuel. The guy has been right on almost everything, so let's take a breath and see if he was right about his most important decision. For those who think EJ's a bust, you only have 7 1/2 short months left to say I told you so if he doesn't prove you wrong. That's a very short time. Edited May 3, 2015 by 1billsfan
Green Lightning Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Seems an easy decision to me. You want a franchise QB - draft him. If you don't, shut the piehole and live with what you got. I'd draft one every year until I got a good one. They should have this year.
YoloinOhio Posted May 4, 2015 Author Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Seems an easy decision to me. You want a franchise QB - draft him. If you don't, shut the piehole and live with what you got. I'd draft one every year until I got a good one. They should have this year.which franchise qb was in this draft outside of the top 2? Even the Jets didn't see Petty as a franchise qb or they would have taken him higher than 4th. The others went to teams with established QBs as backups/multi year projects. i would have taken one too if one was still sitting there in the 6th or 7th but I wouldn't have reached for one of those guys. Edited May 4, 2015 by YoloinOhio
Lurker Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 which franchise qb was in this draft outside of the top 2? Only 7 QBs were drafted this year--the worst showing since 1955 Not the year to reach for any of these guys, regardless of the importance of the position... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/03/seven-quarterbacks-drafted-fewest-since-1955/
4BillsintheBurgh Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I hear you, but the Packers' philosophy is just better. Since 1992, they have drafter 12 qbs not including Favre (who they traded a pick for while Favre was essentially a rookie). Some have had solid to good careers too - Hasselback, Brunell, and Aaron Brooks (who had seome decent seasons). They have also consistently turned those qb picks into more and better picks through trades too. I won't be surprised if that happens to Hundley. Going back to 1987, the Bills have drafted five, and that includes Levi Brown. Rob Johnson was arguably a "pick," although he had more years under his belt than Favre. The Bledsoe they traded for was past his prime. 12 vs. 5 is a big disparity, and through it all the Packers have actually been set at the position! Basically, they recognize its importance more than the Bills do and know how utilize qbs they've drafted as resources. They also have a stable front office and don't change coaches every three years, hence not spending draft picks getting guys to fit their system let alone start. Plus the new system needs to be learned and there are only so many snaps to get this done. They are close to being able to spend the draft resources to be able to do this. I think once Rex gets a year under his belt we should start swinging for the fences.
Ted William's frozen head Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Name all the late round QBs from the draft that became franchise QBs in the last 20 years. Oh, right, you just did. Right, genius. BTW, we don't have one now. Do we??????
Green Lightning Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 which franchise qb was in this draft outside of the top 2? Even the Jets didn't see Petty as a franchise qb or they would have taken him higher than 4th. The others went to teams with established QBs as backups/multi year projects. i would have taken one too if one was still sitting there in the 6th or 7th but I wouldn't have reached for one of those guys. That's my point. You don't know who is or isn't a franchise guy. So sit on your hands and make excuses that nobody is good enough is exactly what we have done for years. That's why teams serious about getting a good QB drafts them in rounds other that the 1st round. That's why you take a Foles, a Wilson, a Kirk Cousins. You can't get a franchise guy (as a rule) unleas you draft them and develop them. Even if they fall short, you get absurd value for them in trades.I applauded taking a shot at EJ. They should take a QB every year until they get it right. Instead we're out of numbers for running backs. Sorry, they should have drafted a QB. As usual they say (like they did with Wilson) they didn't rate them high enough. Get a new rating system or someone who is a better judge of QB talent. QB's go higher in the draft than their ratings, deal with it. Again, you want to find and develop a QB, you gotta draft them.
moshermw Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I'm not sure what Polian said because I didn't hear it, but I can't imaginge he meant that the Bills should have drafted a QB to start the beginning of this season. You can argue that Winston and Mariota can, but beyond that there is no one in this draft. I have to think he meant a guy who potentially could be a quality starter at some point, which would be reasonable. I can easily give them EJ and a pass last year, but I just can't give them Taylor this year. He's not developing into anything. They needed someone else with a chance. EJ still has one, but it's probably his last in a Bills uniform. Maybe the thought was that they wouldn't undermine him by taking another QB, but I hate that line of thought. If that does him in, then he's not NFL caliber anyway. This is too good of a team with too few holes to see them ignored almost completely. Wrong. Will be $.
Chuck Wagon Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Baltimore wanted Taylor back and Ozzie is universally praised for his scouting. We know what Cassel is, he's played decent for stretches of his career and proven to be a capable and willing mentor to young QBs. EJ is obviously a question mark, but I don't see Petty/Grayson/Mannion/Hundley as noticeably better prospects than him. There's a bunch of former decision makers who've been fired by multiple teams out there saying our QB position is screwed. If anyone cared what they thought anymore they'd be paid enough to leave ESPN or other outlets behind in a heartbeat.
Recommended Posts