C.Biscuit97 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Your point still stands regardless. I wonder whether it's even right to include Carr. I remain convinced that the only reason he ended up being drafted in the second round rather than first was because he was the brother of David Carr, as big a bust as Jamarcus Russell if you think about it (and at least Jamarcus didn't string teams along with false hope!). My favorite David Carr stat: in his final starting season for Houston, he led the league in completion pct (68.3) but only had 6.3 ypa. That's really hard to do! It's like every pass is a screen! It's amazing how in love with Carr some posters are. His numbers across the board were worse than EJ's rookie year. He completed 58.1% of his passes for an unbelievably awful 5.46 ypa. But hey, he's not EJ so he has a chance and EJ is a bum!
UpperDeck Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015  Okay, you win the Internet for today with the Plinko reference  Sorry to interupt the conversation. I know I'm late to this party but I had to post this after seeing the Plinko references at the beginning of this thread. I saw this at a tailgate party at the Ralph a few years back and thought "Only in Buffalo". Â
Manther Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Sorry to interupt the conversation. I know I'm late to this party but I had to post this after seeing the Plinko references at the beginning of this thread. I saw this at a tailgate party at the Ralph a few years back and thought "Only in Buffalo". Â Amazing!!
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) It's amazing how in love with Carr some posters are. His numbers across the board were worse than EJ's rookie year. He completed 58.1% of his passes for an unbelievably awful 5.46 ypa. But hey, he's not EJ so he has a chance and EJ is a bum! I suggest looking at Raiders game after their bye last season. It occurred after game 4. In the final 12 games of the season, Carr had 17 TDs, 6 INTs, 2536 yards, a 64.1 percent completion rate, a 6.2 ypa and a rating of 88.8. That is quite good for a rookie. It's like you don't notice progression over time! As Kirby has said many times - and rightly so -, you have to look at how QBs are progressing over time. Seriously. And the team he played for was terrible. Â Bear in mind that in some of those games the Raiders were getting absolutely blown out They lost 52-0 to the Rams, who scored TDs on their first four possessions and led 28-0 early in the second quarter (and none off of turnovers by Carr). Â Honestly, your attacks on Carr seem like willful blindness at this point. Did you watch the games? The guy looked pretty darn good in some desperate situations as the season progressed. Edited May 1, 2015 by dave mcbride
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 The more I read up on this stuff, I really do hope that we take Garrett Grayson if he's available. I'm all aboard the Garrett train
LB3 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Sorry to interupt the conversation. I know I'm late to this party but I had to post this after seeing the Plinko references at the beginning of this thread. I saw this at a tailgate party at the Ralph a few years back and thought "Only in Buffalo". Â That pic just made me shudder. That's like a plinko of death.
sjjr Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 They might be getting to know him well because they think the Jets will take him. They can get a full scouting report on him by doing this and also make the Jets overvalue him and trade up early on tonight.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I suggest looking at Raiders game after their bye last season. It occurred after game 4. In the final 12 games of the season, Carr had 17 TDs, 6 INTs, 2536 yards, a 64.1 percent completion rate, a 6.2 ypa and a rating of 88.8. That is quite good for a rookie. It's like you don't notice progression over time! As Kirby has said many times - and rightly so -, you have to look at how QBs are progressing over time. Seriously. And the team he played for was terrible. Â Bear in mind that in some of those games the Raiders were getting absolutely blown out They lost 52-0 to the Rams, who scored TDs on their first four possessions and led 28-0 early in the second quarter (and none off of turnovers by Carr). Â Honestly, your attacks on Carr seem like willful blindness at this point. Did you watch the games? The guy looked pretty darn good in some desperate situations as the season progressed. Wait, a qb got to play every game and progressed? Shocking! Ej had his whole rookie season interrupted and got benched at 2-2. He didn't get a chance to progress. Â Carr didn't have a better rookie year than EJ. Yet some people fall in love with something because it's different. If Carr put up those numbers in Buffalo, people would be running him out of town. Â And this isn't about Carr. I don't know if he will be good. It's just how folks talk out of both sides of their mouth. If you eliminate the TB game, EJ threw 11 tds and 5 ints as a rookie.
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Wait, a qb got to play every game and progressed? Shocking! Ej had his whole rookie season interrupted and got benched at 2-2. He didn't get a chance to progress. Â Carr didn't have a better rookie year than EJ. Yet some people fall in love with something because it's different. If Carr put up those numbers in Buffalo, people would be running him out of town. Â And this isn't about Carr. I don't know if he will be good. It's just how folks talk out of both sides of their mouth. If you eliminate the TB game, EJ threw 11 tds and 5 ints as a rookie. I'm basing it largely on my eyes, although I don't discount stats. In my opinion, Carr is more accurate on intermediate-to-deep throws than Manuel. Again, did you watch Carr at all later in the season outside of the Bills game? The thing about Manuel (as you well know) is that he became WORSE as time progressed, not better. And he looked very subpar in preseason too. You blame the coaching, but at some point it falls on the player to step up and improve. As you also know, the other offensive players were happy he was benched. I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth, btw - I'm pointing to progress over time, and I didn't take out Carr's bad games that occurred later in the season (he had a couple). It's not like I'm cherry picking. I also think that Manuel can improve. His inaccuracy on deeper throws isn't fated. It'll only happen, though, if he speeds up the mental part of his game. Edited May 1, 2015 by dave mcbride
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I'm basing it largely on my eyes, although I don't discount stats. In my opinion, Carr is more accurate on intermediate-to-deep throws than Manuel. Again, did you watch Carr at all later in the season outside of the Bills game? The thing about Manuel (as you well know) is that he became WORSE as time progressed, not better. And he looked very subpar in preseason too. You blame the coaching, but at some point it falls on the player to step up and improve. As you also know, the other offensive players were happy he was benched. I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth, btw - I'm pointing to progress over time, and I didn't take out Carr's bad games that occurred later in the season (he had a couple). It's not like I'm cherry picking. 2 of Manuel's better games in his rookie year were later in the season. Â But breakdown anyway you want, Carr didn't have a better rookie year than Manuel. JMO (and stats back it up though I guess the eye test is more important ).
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 2 of Manuel's better games in his rookie year were later in the season. Â But breakdown anyway you want, Carr didn't have a better rookie year than Manuel. JMO (and stats back it up though I guess the eye test is more important ). Why do you think he had a better season? What do you know about the Raiders truly abysmal roster - the worst roster in the league on the offensive side of the ball last season? Again, did you watch the games? But don't take it from me - there isn't a GM in the league who would take EJ over Carr right now, and you know it. I'd bet most of my salary that Whaley would trade EJ straight up for Carr too if presented with the opportunity. Deep down I think you know that too despite your loyalty to the cause of EJ (which I think is admirable, btw - no joke).
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 Why do you think he had a better season? What do you know about the Raiders truly abysmal roster - the worst roster in the league on the offensive side of the ball last season? Again, did you watch the games? But don't take it from me - there isn't a GM in the league who would take EJ over Carr right now, and you know it. I'd bet most of my salary that Whaley would trade EJ straight up for Carr too if presented with the opportunity. Deep down I think you know that too despite your loyalty to the cause of EJ (which I think is admirable, btw - no joke). Prisoners of the moment. And it's not about loyalty as much as it is about a guy getting a fair shot. Â Why GMs would be so impressed over a guy the completed 58% of his passes for 5.4 ypa is beyond me. Â If EJ can't improve under the first real NFL OC he has had, I would gladly turn the page.
CNY315 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I see him drafted by the Browns at 43. Â Â Imo I could see that. Or a WR
bbb Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 You know the old saying - if you have 9 quarterbacks, you have none
stevestojan Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 I was 100% certain Petty was the pick. And I was 190% upset about it. The Bills, once again, trumped my expectations.
K D Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 i didn't want them to take Petty at 50. but now i wish they would have. an undersized CB with terrible ball skills? i'm dumbfounded
Doc Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 i didn't want them to take Petty at 50. but now i wish they would have. an undersized CB with terrible ball skills? i'm dumbfounded How is 5'11" and 193 "undersized"? And apparently teams didn't throw his way much. Must have been a reason for that.
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