Greg Hardy suspended 10 games; update: Reduced to 4

[truth on hold]

So the NFL concluded what the DA couldn't? NFL has superior investigation powers to local DA? What are they, the CIA?

Edited April 22, 2015 by JTSP

[Ice bowl 67]

Good but he will be back in time for my pack to.

[Rocky Landing]

Where are my assumptions? I'm looking at the facts and asking how they got to their conclusion. The only answer they've given is what you posted, which said a lot of nothing. Isn't he the one who called the cops on her? Is there any evidence that he was the aggressor other than her story?

 

Which facts are you looking at?

 

According to the NFL report, the woman in question, "sustained a range of injuries, including bruises and scratches on her neck, shoulders, upper chest, back, arms and feet." I'm not posting that as "fact," per se, but as established evidence. The other quote I posted referred to her being pushed into a bathtub, pushed onto a bed with four or more semi-auto rifles, and choking her to the point of bruising.

 

And let's not forget that hardy was found guilty in a North Carolina court, and upon the subsequent appeal, the county district attorney also felt very strongly that he was guilty.

 

Add to that my subsequent quote from the re[port that stated that the NFL's investigation "involved numerous interviews with witnesses and experts, a review of hundreds of pages of court records, documents and exhibits, photographs, police reports, medical records, and reports and opinions of medical experts retained by Hardy's attorneys and by the NFL office."

 

And, from this you draw the assumption that "It looks like Hardy's being made to take the punishment for the sins of Ray Rice?"

 

What more do you need to know about "how they got to their conclusion?" And, again, what "facts" are you looking at? You certainly haven't posted any.

So the NFL concluded what the DA couldn't? NFL has superior investigation powers to local DA? What are they, the CIA?

You should just read the link to the NFL release. It's only a few pages, large print. Hardy was convicted. Before the retrial, the victim made herself unavailable to the court, most likely as a result of a large settlement.

[scribo]

So the NFL concluded what the DA couldn't? NFL has superior investigation powers to local DA? What are they, the CIA?

The NFL is an employer. It does not have anywhere near the level of burden of proof that a criminal court has.

[Rob's House]

 

 

 

 

Which facts are you looking at?

 

According to the NFL report, the woman in question, "sustained a range of injuries, including bruises and scratches on her neck, shoulders, upper chest, back, arms and feet." I'm not posting that as "fact," per se, but as established evidence. The other quote I posted referred to her being pushed into a bathtub, pushed onto a bed with four or more semi-auto rifles, and choking her to the point of bruising.

 

And let's not forget that hardy was found guilty in a North Carolina court, and upon the subsequent appeal, the county district attorney also felt very strongly that he was guilty.

 

Add to that my subsequent quote from the re[port that stated that the NFL's investigation "involved numerous interviews with witnesses and experts, a review of hundreds of pages of court records, documents and exhibits, photographs, police reports, medical records, and reports and opinions of medical experts retained by Hardy's attorneys and by the NFL office."

 

And, from this you draw the assumption that "It looks like Hardy's being made to take the punishment for the sins of Ray Rice?"

 

What more do you need to know about "how they got to their conclusion?" And, again, what "facts" are you looking at? You certainly haven't posted any.

 

You should just read the link to the NFL release. It's only a few pages, large print. Hardy was convicted. Before the retrial, the victim made herself unavailable to the court, most likely as a result of a large settlement.

Two people in a hotel room have an argument, no one with any serious injuries, no witnesses, no accusations of anything but pushing and grabbing of the neck (which could be consistent with her being the aggressor), he called the cops, and the only evidence suggesting he was the aggressor is her word. Not exactly a strong case for domestic assault.

 

Then we look to the penalty: He had to sit out all of last year and is suspended for 10 games this year for alleged shoving? Where's the precedent? Ray Rice knocked a girl out cold on camera and got a 2 week suspension. It really couldn't be more obvious.

[Rocky Landing]

Two people in a hotel room have an argument, no one with any serious injuries, no witnesses, no accusations of anything but pushing and grabbing of the neck (which could be consistent with her being the aggressor), he called the cops, and the only evidence suggesting he was the aggressor is her word. Not exactly a strong case for domestic assault.

 

Then we look to the penalty: He had to sit out all of last year and is suspended for 10 games this year for alleged shoving? Where's the precedent? Ray Rice knocked a girl out cold on camera and got a 2 week suspension. It really couldn't be more obvious.

It was strong enough to convict him in a North Carolina court.

[Rob's House]

It was strong enough to convict him in a North Carolina court.

He doesn't have a conviction and if that's the basis of your argument you don't have much. Those general district courts play fast and loose with the law And it's not uncommon for them to convict on who the judge believes more and for the circuit court to rule differently. Without knowing the judge's history I can't speak to potential bias, but I can assure you that she was very aware of the press coverage surrounding this case.

[3rdand12]

why the heck are the guns out? and why so many? Why ANY !

 

Dudes a nut case.

I dont ever leave guns laying around. No one i know does either . And i would never need to injure a woman to stop her assaulting me. Even my black belt ex wife. and do we think Hardy was defenseless and needed to leave marks? Do we?

just pick her up and set her outside the door, and lock it . and i dont even have a 200 pound advantage NFL football conditioned physique!

This argument is idiotic to defend him.

[vincec]

That's bull ****, man. If he beat the **** out of her I'd agree that it doesn't matter if she were the aggressor, but that didn't happen. If someone is charging you and physically imposing their will upon you, pushing them off is both legally and morally justifiable, even if the aggressor has a vagina.

So he was defending himself by strangling her?

[NoSaint]

why the heck are the guns out? and why so many? Why ANY !

 

Dudes a nut case.

I dont ever leave guns laying around. No one i know does either . And i would never need to injure a woman to stop her assaulting me. Even my black belt ex wife. and do we think Hardy was defenseless and needed to leave marks? Do we?

just pick her up and set her outside the door, and lock it . and i dont even have a 200 pound advantage NFL football conditioned physique!

This argument is idiotic to defend him.

I think we'd be shocked by gun culture in the NFL. I recall in the wake of the belcher suicide that there was talk of guns all over his house just casually laying around. We've seen lots of weapons offenses.

 

As to the assault charge- it might not be a sexy place to stake the argument, but I get robs arguments and concerns. This amounts to a nearly 2 year suspension in a he said she said without a true conviction on an incident that hardy called the police to report. Given the pre-rice track record of 2 games being the highest penalty for convictions it's a pretty big jump on a pretty shaky case. I know it's not popular to not come down on guys here but if be curious to hear more about what the nfl found vs what's been in the media

So he was defending himself by strangling her?

I truly don't know the details of the neck injuries but if that's just where he got a hand on her in order to push her back/restrain her, that's a big gap from malicious strangulation and i haven't seen a firm statement of how they could tell the difference. I'm not saying he didn't, simply trying to open the discussion in a reasonable way

[3rdand12]

for reference. i had a road rage incurred last year. i was the one who called 911. Dude threatened me and then ran into my car

But the guy was smarter than me and told a different story. it was all bull **** but he sold it. i got ticketed . i was out played. My car had all the illogical dents that did not jibe with his story. but he outsmarted me. The ticket got dropped in court because i followed up and made a case. but my car was still damaged and i lost a ton of sleep.

Just having the guns out is enough to tell me the environment is a mess. and Hardy owns that.

then add on the physical marks etc.

Sure he was smart as hell to call it in. But he could have done that while holding her down.

 

Yes i have a bias

[Rob's House]

So he was defending himself by strangling her?

I didn't see the part where he strangled her, just that he grabbed her by the throat (there is a very real distinction) which could be defensive.

[Rocky Landing]

He doesn't have a conviction and if that's the basis of your argument you don't have much. Those general district courts play fast and loose with the law And it's not uncommon for them to convict on who the judge believes more and for the circuit court to rule differently. Without knowing the judge's history I can't speak to potential bias, but I can assure you that she was very aware of the press coverage surrounding this case.

I'm not basing any arguments on assumptions. It's amazing to me how willing you are to draw conclusions from pure speculation. She must have been lying. The court was playing fast and loose. Apparently the district attorney was at fault here, as well. And, because I'm basing my opinion on written statements regarding such things, as well as expert, medical testimony, etc., it is I who doesn't have much?

 

It is so obvious that you will only regard elements of the case that back up your obvious agenda, and all else is worthy of attack.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rocky Landing

[Rocky Landing]

I didn't see the part where he strangled her, just that he grabbed her by the throat (there is a very real distinction) which could be defensive.

You don't think that medical experts understand that distinction?

[Rob's House]

I'm not basing any arguments on assumptions. It's amazing to me how willing you are to draw conclusions from pure speculation. She must have been lying. The court was playing fast and loose. Apparently the district attorney was at fault here, as well. And, because I'm basing my opinion on written statements regarding such things, as well as expert, medical testimony, etc., it is I who doesn't have much?

 

It is so obvious that you will only regard elements of the case that back up your obvious agenda, and all else is worthy of attack.

My point is we don't know what happened. You and Roger Goodell are the ones who are so !@#$ing certain. So What's the standard? Whenever allegations of improper conduct that may or may not be true are made, swift and harsh consequences shall be doled out?

 

And what's my obvious agenda?

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rob's House

[Uffalo Ills]

why the heck are the guns out? and why so many? Why ANY !

 

Dudes a nut case.

I dont ever leave guns laying around. No one i know does either . And i would never need to injure a woman to stop her assaulting me. Even my black belt ex wife. and do we think Hardy was defenseless and needed to leave marks? Do we?

just pick her up and set her outside the door, and lock it . and i dont even have a 200 pound advantage NFL football conditioned physique!

This argument is idiotic to defend him.

Agreed completely. Do you really need to choke out a chick, even if she is "attacking" you?

[Rob's House]

for reference. i had a road rage incurred last year. i was the one who called 911. Dude threatened me and then ran into my car

But the guy was smarter than me and told a different story. it was all bull **** but he sold it. i got ticketed . i was out played. My car had all the illogical dents that did not jibe with his story. but he outsmarted me. The ticket got dropped in court because i followed up and made a case. but my car was still damaged and i lost a ton of sleep.

Just having the guns out is enough to tell me the environment is a mess. and Hardy owns that.

then add on the physical marks etc.

Sure he was smart as hell to call it in. But he could have done that while holding her down.

 

Yes i have a bias

At least you recognize and admit it.

Agreed completely. Do you really need to choke out a chick, even if she is "attacking" you?

This is where these conversations get really frustrating. It's one thing to have an illogical opinion, quite another to make up facts to support your argument.

 

As a rule, when you have to invent facts to support your argument then your argument is probably ****. And one might wonder what it is about you that makes you so desirous of that outcome.

[vincec]

Hey what do you tell a woman with two black eyes?

[NoSaint]

I'm not basing any arguments on assumptions. It's amazing to me how willing you are to draw conclusions from pure speculation. She must have been lying. The court was playing fast and loose. Apparently the district attorney was at fault here, as well. And, because I'm basing my opinion on written statements regarding such things, as well as expert, medical testimony, etc., it is I who doesn't have much?

 

It is so obvious that you will only regard elements of the case that back up your obvious agenda, and all else is worthy of attack.

Robs very clearly playing devils advocate, and not asserting an alternate story as FACT. He's asking the obvious questions at play in this situation.

[Rocky Landing]

My point is we don't know what happened. You and Roger Goodell are the ones who are so !@#$ing certain. So What's the standard? Whenever allegations of improper conduct that may or may not be true are made, swift and harsh consequences shall be doled out?

 

And what's my obvious agenda?

I'm not certain in any way. You claimed to be only looking at facts, while ignoring even the existence of expert medical opinion, and denied that such statements as "It looks like Hardy's being made to take the punishment for the sins of Ray Rice" were an assumption. (Or, for that matter, that such a statement would belie an agenda.)

 

I will say that the length of his suspension is certainly longer as a result of the backlash from Rice's two week suspension. But, I haven't read anything that would point to Hardy's innocence. And, obviously, there is plenty of evidence against him-- enough to get him convicted (yes, that happened).

 

While it is not confirmed, the most likely scenario is that the only thing that kept him out of prison was a lot of money that he made playing football. And, that's my point. The same system that suspended him is the same system that afforded him a salary that could buy him out of a prison sentence. He gets no sympathy from me.