Don’t-give-a-damn workers are dragging down the economy

[birdog1960]

 

The problem isn't that we need more vocational programs, etc. Everywhere I've lived -- from NJ to NY to NC to FLA to CA -- there have been more than enough places for kids to learn entry level tech with vocational assistance.

 

The challenge is getting asses into seats with kids who are motivated to do better than flipping burgers. But if you keep telling the kid that he's no more or less special than the rest of the kids, and handing out trophies to kids simply for showing up, then you're screwed from the get-go.

 

One thing I find interesting though: the problem could be "ebola virus outbreak" and your solution would be to throw more money at education.

actually education on universal precautions would be very important in that instance. ignorance is often dangerous and almost always undesirable.

[Dorkington]

This topic has been an interesting read so far, given the fundamental differences between some of our members.

[Chef Jim]

Those of us in the thinking public realize it will also create new problems while it solves the older ones. Two steps forward one step back

 

But it's still one step....FORWARD!!

[Tiberius]

But it's still one step....FORWARD!!

Yes

[Chef Jim]

Yes

Unless of course knowing the incredible inefficiencies of our government that one stop backwards will be a giant strep erasing and the progress and more that they "promised" with their two steps forward.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Yes

That's just it. These huge leaps that many liberals, in good faith and with good intentions in most cases, have implemented have had multi-generational negative impacts which left the impacted far worse off than they had been prior to government intervention, with no pathway away from the created carnage given the pervese incentives put in place.

 

To wit, the desruction of the black family through the marginalization of the black male, as the government handout quickly replaced his paycheck which, and incentivized him not being in the home. This led to generations of black children growing up with no male role models, and led to a culture of procreation with no responsibility. With no responsibility to a family, those who used to become black men rather became man-children, and the surrounding poverty coupled with immaturity led mass quantities of them into crime, which led to a prison state in which nearly one half of all black males will be arrested by the time they turn 23.

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

To wit, the desruction of the black family through the marginalization of the black male, as the government handout quickly replaced his paycheck which, and incentivized him not being in the home. This led to generations of black children growing up with no male role models, and led to a culture of procreation with no responsibility. With no responsibility to a family, those who used to become black men rather became man-children, and the surrounding poverty coupled with immaturity led mass quantities of them into crime, which led to a prison state in which nearly one half of all black males will be arrested by the time they turn 23.

 

Add to this that 72-percent of black children born today are born to single mothers. Progressive policies literally provide a financial incentive program to give more money to single mothers as long as they just keep having more babies for whom the single mother has no ability or desire to care for and raise.

 

Creepy.

Edited April 21, 2015 by LABillzFan

[B-Man]

The Best Person for the Job? Think Again.

 

“Among the hiring myths that took root during the recession, here’s a particularly tenacious one: A person with a college degree makes a better employee than a person with a high-school diploma.”

 

.

[keepthefaith]

That's just it. These huge leaps that many liberals, in good faith and with good intentions in most cases, have implemented have had multi-generational negative impacts which left the impacted far worse off than they had been prior to government intervention, with no pathway away from the created carnage given the pervese incentives put in place.

 

To wit, the desruction of the black family through the marginalization of the black male, as the government handout quickly replaced his paycheck which, and incentivized him not being in the home. This led to generations of black children growing up with no male role models, and led to a culture of procreation with no responsibility. With no responsibility to a family, those who used to become black men rather became man-children, and the surrounding poverty coupled with immaturity led mass quantities of them into crime, which led to a prison state in which nearly one half of all black males will be arrested by the time they turn 23.

 

The left answers this with the "disparate impact" excuse.

[TakeYouToTasker]

The left answers this with the "disparate impact" excuse.

I answer that: stop advocating policy which creates and perpetuates disparate impact.

[3rdnlng]

education is a pretty broad term. i believe there's a book called a dictionary that can offer a concise definition.

 

in this instance i mean formal or even informal learning that prepares people for the work force. ("pure"- as opposed to applied- research and learning certainly have their place but that's not the discussion here. So i'd propose more vocational programs, state run technical schools and polytechnics as part of the solution. how they would help this problem is self evident.

I'm not sure the dictionary can offer a definition that would describe the "education" I was referring to. Workers are lazy and have no work ethic, so having them attend vocational programs and state run technical schools will correct their laziness and poor work ethic? No, no, no. You see, the employee who is lazy and has a rotten work ethic invariably had poor parenting. The employer has few options for disciplining them short of dismissal. A letter in their file just doesn't mean much to them. Giving them hell has been replaced by "coaching" which doesn't have the same effect as their parents could have had by grounding them or taking away privileges in their formative years. For the most part it is rare for the employee to improve without being canned, which is the first step in their workplace education. So, teaching a lazy person to be a pipefitter accomplishes nothing other than having a lazy pipefitter, and that was the whole point of the OP.

 

Well, once again your snarky remarks have failed to do anything but be snarky and void of anything either pertinent to the conversation or able to show a comprehension of that conversation. Keep it up, you're on a roll.

[birdog1960]

I'm not sure the dictionary can offer a definition that would describe the "education" I was referring to. Workers are lazy and have no work ethic, so having them attend vocational programs and state run technical schools will correct their laziness and poor work ethic? No, no, no. You see, the employee who is lazy and has a rotten work ethic invariably had poor parenting. The employer has few options for disciplining them short of dismissal. A letter in their file just doesn't mean much to them. Giving them hell has been replaced by "coaching" which doesn't have the same effect as their parents could have had by grounding them or taking away privileges in their formative years. For the most part it is rare for the employee to improve without being canned, which is the first step in their workplace education. So, teaching a lazy person to be a pipefitter accomplishes nothing other than having a lazy pipefitter, and that was the whole point of the OP.

 

Well, once again your snarky remarks have failed to do anything but be snarky and void of anything either pertinent to the conversation or able to show a comprehension of that conversation. Keep it up, you're on a roll.

why don't we investigate the premise made here that public vocational programs are abundant and accessible.

 

If that were true, then why do for profit schools like this http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/cfpb-sues-for-profit-college-chain-itt-for-predatory-lending/ attract students? why would anyone choose to borrow $20k to obtain an associates degree?

 

because there are very limited choices for these people. because the above premise is ungrounded. because very few such public programs exist for people over 18.

 

these are folks from the same background as many of the young people that comprise our volunteer military. many join for the same reasons i just stated. it's their best option. and guess what? the recruiters offer educational opportunities and job training.

 

what if we offered those things without joining the military? what if we brought in successful tradesmen to talk to groups of would be students about the earning and lifestyle potential of their fields?

 

and in a few years, you bring in alumni that have succeeded. and it becomes logarithmic growth. and you chip away at an under class and an expensive and wasteful cultural problem.

 

but then again, who would function as cannon fodder?

Edited April 22, 2015 by birdog1960

[3rdnlng]

why don't we investigate the premise made here that public vocational programs are abundant and accessible.

 

If that were true, then why do for profit schools like this http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/cfpb-sues-for-profit-college-chain-itt-for-predatory-lending/ attract students? why would anyone choose to borrow $20k to obtain an associates degree?

 

because there are very limited choices for these people. because the above premise is ungrounded. because very few such public programs exist for people over 18.

 

these are folks from the same background as many of the young people that comprise our volunteer military. many join for the same reasons i just stated. it's their best option. and guess what? the recruiters offer educational opportunities and job training.

 

what if we offered those things without joining the military? what if we brought in successful tradesmen to talk to groups of would be students about the earning and lifestyle potential of their fields?

 

and in a few years, you bring in alumni that have succeeded. and it becomes logarithmic growth. and you chip away at an under class and an expensive and wasteful cultural problem.

 

but then again, who would function as cannon fodder?

Well, I guess if you can't (or won't) discuss the premise of this thread then you will hijack it and talk about what you want to talk about, eh? Are you really saying that government sponsored technical education is the answer to laziness and poor work ethic?

[birdog1960]

Well, I guess if you can't (or won't) discuss the premise of this thread then you will hijack it and talk about what you want to talk about, eh? Are you really saying that government sponsored technical education is the answer to laziness and poor work ethic?

i did address it. you give people hope and a light at the end of the tunnel and their motivation and work ethic are very likely to change

[Dante]

 

Add to this that 72-percent of black children born today are born to single mothers. Progressive policies literally provide a financial incentive program to give more money to single mothers as long as they just keep having more babies for whom the single mother has no ability or desire to care for and raise.

 

Creepy.

[TakeYouToTasker]

i did address it. you give people hope and a light at the end of the tunnel and their motivation and work ethic are very likely to change

That's some pie in the sky optimism there.

 

Most people, across all walks of life, share an ugly trait: they seek the easiest path which offers the least resistance. It's the reason Frost's The Road Less Traveled is so impactful: it's the rare individual who will do the extra work to get ahead when comforts can be found without.

[FireChan]

i did address it. you give people hope and a light at the end of the tunnel and their motivation and work ethic are very likely to change

How is it "very likely?"

[Chef Jim]

 

I didn't watch the video but I looked her up and found this interview with her.

 

Jackson describes how some people abuse the food stamp system by having kids to get government benefits. She also talks about what benefits many in California get: food stamps for fast food, housing vouchers, and daycare subsidies.

 

“They have a life program so you can get benefits on your phone and your electricity. So, you actually benefit from not working if you have a lot of children,” Jackson told KEEL Morning News. “If you are a single person, it doesn’t really benefit you much because if you have children, you get Section 8 free housing, free medical, free cash, free food.”

 

And not just your run of the mill produce and bare necessities food.

 

“You can go to KFC, you can go to Pizza Hut, if you are on the hot food program,” Jackson explained. “You can go to your local liquor store and the person behind the counter can ring up for chips and candy, but they are actually selling you liquor.”

 

Good for her.

 

How is it "very likely?"

 

It's government magic. Give people stuff and they'll change their ways. Look at how free cheese has changed the ghettos.

[birdog1960]

How is it "very likely?"

the military analogy is evidence of the likelihood. there are cvlearly many poor people that are wiling to risk their lives for an opportunity at upward mobility. i think it's fair to say that many more would jump at this opportunity if risking ones life wasn't a prerequisite.

 

Asch alluded to the fact that “the military tries to attract high school graduates who are looking for job training, good benefits and help with college tuition — and that a high percentage of black women fit that bill, as a possible explanation of the discovery

Edited April 22, 2015 by birdog1960

[keepthefaith]

That's some pie in the sky optimism there.

 

Most people, across all walks of life, share an ugly trait: they seek the easiest path which offers the least resistance. It's the reason Frost's The Road Less Traveled is so impactful: it's the rare individual who will do the extra work to get ahead when comforts can be found without.

Yes. If people want "hope and light at the end of the tunnel" they can simply wake up one day and commit themselves to something positive. Hard work and a good attitude dramatically increase the chance for success.