Beef Jerky Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 WTF!!! With no first round pick this year, these bozos say they're going to draft a luncheon? Should it have been a brunch instead?
FireChan Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 So they throw "tons of passes with good mechanics" and, at the same time, "throw far too many passes with bad mechanics...too often"? Both can't be true, as FireChan pointed out. And has anyone previously commented that EJ has, at baseline, "good mechanics"? I've only read the opposite ("footwork", as you say, in particular...). I'd assume the argument is that EJ can demonstrate good mechanics, but falls back to bad habits too often. And that Fitz and those others are just always throwing with poor mechanics. But, of course, I'd argue that if you "fall back" to bad habits often, you have bad mechanics.
YoloinOhio Posted April 20, 2015 Author Posted April 20, 2015 @mikerodak: Last offseason, Whaley talked about making sure EJ progresses. This offseason, its about find[ing] that franchise QB. Striking change.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 true - I agree that moving down a couple spots to pick up a 4th, if they think their guy will still be there when they pick - would be the most I could see. Can't see him moving down just to pick up more later picks. Makes no sense base on their situation. They need a starter in the 2nd and the higher the better. I have been saying the opposite. I would like to see them packaging a bunch of late picks to move up into the 4th or wherever. I want a few guys that can play out of this draft but there is not a lot of room.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 So they throw "tons of passes with good mechanics" and, at the same time, "throw far too many passes with bad mechanics...too often"? Both can't be true, as FireChan pointed out. And has anyone previously commented that EJ has, at baseline, "good mechanics"? I've only read the opposite ("footwork", as you say, in particular...). Of course they reconcile. If you throw 30 passes in a game and you panic and lose your mechanics on half of them that's WAY too many. And also 15 more and WAY WAY more than the guy with poor mechanics. There are a lot of passes EJ throws with good mechanics. He just panics too early and too often so he loses them. I'd assume the argument is that EJ can demonstrate good mechanics, but falls back to bad habits too often. And that Fitz and those others are just always throwing with poor mechanics. But, of course, I'd argue that if you "fall back" to bad habits often, you have bad mechanics. I wouldn't. But often the reason you do and he does is he's not comfortable or confident yet and that sometimes comes with experience. He may never process info under fire quick enough though. If that happens he will never be great or even good.
YoloinOhio Posted April 20, 2015 Author Posted April 20, 2015 I have been saying the opposite. I would like to see them packaging a bunch of late picks to move up into the 4th or wherever. I want a few guys that can play out of this draft but there is not a lot of room.i don't think they move down at all - but if they do - thats the only way I can see them do it. A couple spots, pick up a 4th. But if they move at all I agree, it's more likely to move up (but not to the 1st)
FireChan Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 I wouldn't. But often the reason you do and he does is he's not comfortable or confident yet and that sometimes comes with experience. He may never process info under fire quick enough though. If that happens he will never be great or even good. Is it the thinking for mechanics? I'd love to see a chart of pass attempts vs mechanic breakdowns or something similar, do you know of any?
Lurker Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 Striking change. Is it me, or does Rodak just seem desperate for click-throughs lately...
John from Riverside Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 I'd assume the argument is that EJ can demonstrate good mechanics, but falls back to bad habits too often. And that Fitz and those others are just always throwing with poor mechanics. But, of course, I'd argue that if you "fall back" to bad habits often, you have bad mechanics. I agree with your take on this..... Although....I would call the mechanics "inconsistant" The bottom line is u cant do something well to start and keep reverting back to something that does not work.....simple as that
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 I have been saying the opposite. I would like to see them packaging a bunch of late picks to move up into the 4th or wherever. I want a few guys that can play out of this draft but there is not a lot of room. Trade Values say we can package all of our picks in 5-7 for round 4 pick 10 (Tampa). Pair that with the Arizona trade down and hypothetically we could have picks at 2-23, 3-17, 4-10, and 4-24. Hypothetically I think that's 4 possibly worthwhile picks if it was doable, but I also feel like I'm kind of far down the rabbit hole...
YoloinOhio Posted April 20, 2015 Author Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) @mikerodak: Probably the most underrated aspect of todays Bills news conference? Doug Whaley quoted the GM of the NHLs worst team not once, but twice. Uh - it's ok to just say "Sabres GM" Btw I think the quote he is referring to is "it's free to listen" Edited April 20, 2015 by YoloinOhio
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 Trade Values say we can package all of our picks in 5-7 for round 4 pick 10 (Tampa). Pair that with the Arizona trade down and hypothetically we could have picks at 2-23, 3-17, 4-10, and 4-24. Hypothetically I think that's 4 possibly worthwhile picks if it was doable, but I also feel like I'm kind of far down the rabbit hole... Great work!! That would seriously be perfect IMO. I don't need a bunch of bodies that aren't going to make the team. If they are stuck with some of those late round guys I hope that they are all boom or bust guys. I would just look for those flags on my draft board and take the highest rated guy that is falling for one reason or another.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I agree with your take on this..... Although....I would call the mechanics "inconsistant" The bottom line is u cant do something well to start and keep reverting back to something that does not work.....simple as that That's why EJ is way too inaccurate in the games he has played so far. He panics too early and doesn't trust what he sees and doesn't process the game quick enough yet. That causes him to throw off back foot or throw too early or overthrow because his mechanics break down. Once he gets comfortable and confident, in games when real bullets fly, one of two things are going to happen. The naysayers will be proven right and he just can't throw accurately enough to be a franchise guy. Or he will start to get better and better and much more accurate. For that to happen, both those big thresholds have to be crossed. He has to get comfortable which may never happen. It doesn't automatically come with experience. And he has to prove to be accurate. That is an unknown. If Whaley and Rex and Roman thought there was no chance of one or both happening like a lot of posters do he would be gone already. Or gone by opening day. They don't feel that way yet. That is self-evident. But it's a big chore and jump. I think less than 50%chance. Edited April 20, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 Of course they reconcile. If you throw 30 passes in a game and you panic and lose your mechanics on half of them that's WAY too many. And also 15 more and WAY WAY more than the guy with poor mechanics. There are a lot of passes EJ throws with good mechanics. He just panics too early and too often so he loses them. I wouldn't. But often the reason you do and he does is he's not comfortable or confident yet and that sometimes comes with experience. He may never process info under fire quick enough though. If that happens he will never be great or even good. Fitz had "tons" of passes with solid mechanics. Again, EJ is not known for his good mechanics--but for his lack thereof...
Bangarang Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) What is the difference between having good mechanics that turn bad all the time, and having bad mechanics? There really isn't to me. If a guys mechanics break down that affect his throw then that is a problem either way. You're still having to coach a guy to change the way he's been playing for years. If the end result is the same then to me it doesn't really matter if the mechanics are crap to begin with or break down all the time. Edited April 20, 2015 by Bangarang
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Fitz had "tons" of passes with solid mechanics. Again, EJ is not known for his good mechanics--but for his lack thereof... No. Fitz had none. He throws every pass like a baseball. He never takes a perfect drop, step, and behind the ear pass with good feet and follow through. He throws perfect passes at times. But his biggest problem is accuracy. And because he has crappy mechanics. A lot of which have to do with arm strength. He can't get the ball there far enough or fast enough without the baseball wind-up. There really isn't to me. If a guys mechanics break down that affect his throw then that is a problem it's a problem either way. You're still having to coach a guy to change the way he's been playing for years. If the end result is the same then to me it doesn't really matter if the mechanics are crap to begin with or break down all the time. No. You have to teach that to a guy with bad mechanics. With the guy you mentioned you have to teach him to not panic and to process information so he doesn't panic Edited April 20, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
FireChan Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 There really isn't to me. If a guys mechanics break down that affect his throw then that is a problem it's a problem either way. You're still having to coach a guy to change the way he's been playing for years. If the end result is the same then to me it doesn't really matter if the mechanics are crap to begin with or break down all the time. I'm in the same boat.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 I'm in the same boat. It's the same problem, and result, at the time. No question. The difference is in the solution and the percentage of probability. The guy with the bad mechanics has very little chance of being great, and a much tougher time that the other guy of even being good. You can't mention any great QBs with bad mechanics. Rivers is the closest thing and I'm not sure he is great. He's very very good but throws sidearm. All of the other great guys. Manning, Brady, Rogers, Luck, Wilson, all have great mechanics. When EJ does things right, he has great mechanics. His real accuracy is an unknown right now.
Beef Jerky Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 Is it me, or does Rodak just seem desperate for click-throughs lately... Think about it, if the Bills become good then ESPN will have no choice but to replace him with a guy that actually has ties to the Bills. Not a guy who is a Patriots fan that got his name pulled out of the journalism hat.
BobbyC81 Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 There really isn't to me. If a guys mechanics break down that affect his throw then that is a problem it's a problem either way. You're still having to coach a guy to change the way he's been playing for years. If the end result is the same then to me it doesn't really matter if the mechanics are crap to begin with or break down all the time. I have heard much discussion about Mariota over the past few months and one statement that is frequently used is "it is tough for a guy who has been used to operating out of the shotgun in a spread offense to adjust to 3 and 5 and 7-step drops". The same can be said for any QB mechanics. Hopefully the 10,000 reps EJ has done with DeBerg make better mechanics second nature.
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