Solomon Grundy Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I really think that's a draft smoke screen. I think they have a QB targeted in the 3rd round that they would take there. I don't know who that is but I'm sure it's one of either Petty, Hundley or Grayson. I'm sure he likes him, but to gush like that only days before the draft sounds fishy to me. The Bills new coaches probably would like an extra QB option for next year. Now if all of those QBs are gone by the 3rd round pick then they'll start scouting the 2016 class while hoping like heck EJ Manuel locks down the position during this season. I'm thinking Sean Mannion. He played well when he had Brandin Cooks. Mannion also played in a pro style offense at Oregon State. Tuel's roster spot could be in trouble. If the Bills can move back from 50 and garnish another pick or two a QB will be taken. EJ played two years. Bortles played one. Bad comparison. Bortles played just as many games as EJ in one year. It's about games played while the bullets are flying Chan. Come on Chan u know what he is trying to say Lets go back to Edwards....... A lot of people feel that Trent started playing badly after he took the vicious hit.....but he did in fact come out and play well for one game after that....how do we know that it wasnt a matter of the OC not being able to adjust to what defenses are doing...... You know its interesting because it takes me back to what Rex Ryan (and Greg Roman) want to do......run the ball......if you can effectively run the ball then taking a QB out of the game plan becomes obsolete....because you have a foundation that you can fall back on that is gonna work no matter what.......and now the QB becomes on jockey on the back of a racehorse. Many of us gave Edwards and Losman 3 seasons worth of games to prove they weren't worth their grains of salt, yet some of us want to base EJ's mettle after 14 games. Really?? I know they don't want to hear this, but it may take Manuel training camp and half the season to become comfortable in an entirely new system. These young QBs don't get as much off season practice time as they used to. There are so many variables that any and all things are possible. It's possible Cassel may start the season because he grasps the offense much more quickly and Manuel comes in midway through the season, due to either poor play or an injury to Cassel, and Manuel could look very good because he had the extra time to get the offense down without being rushed. I agree with this. What if the competition is so close between EJ and Cassel that the staff decides to go with Cassel in the beginning to allow EJ some more fermenting? That's why I didn't like what Howard Simon was saying on show today about getting rid of EJ if he don't win starting spot.
FireChan Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I'm thinking Sean Mannion. He played well when he had Brandin Cooks. Mannion also played in a pro style offense at Oregon State. Tuel's roster spot could be in trouble. If the Bills can move back from 50 and garnish another pick or two a QB will be taken. Bortles played just as many games as EJ in one year. It's about games played while the bullets are flying Chan. Many of us gave Edwards and Losman 3 seasons worth of games to prove they weren't worth their grains of salt, yet some of us want to base EJ's mettle after 14 games. Really?? I agree with this. What if the competition is so close between EJ and Cassel that the staff decides to go with Cassel in the beginning to allow EJ some more fermenting? That's why I didn't like what Howard Simon was saying on show today about getting rid of EJ if he don't win starting spot. A lot of it is about playing when the bullets are flying, but not all of it. EJ had an entire offseason to learn from his mistakes, build up chemistry, and to practice reading some of the defenses that he saw in between his 10th and 11th start. Bortles did not. It's about making progress your second year. Unfair comparison.
negativo Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I look at EJ as just another QB prospect in camp. No more, no less, and his original draft position is of no consequence anymore. We have 3 equal competitors for the starting position, maybe 4 if we draft a QB with our 2nd or 3rd rd pick. If during camp EJ is more impressive than the others ride him. If he's less, trade him while he still has some value. I am not interested in nurturing any of the QBs currently on the roster. Keep the top two performers, trade/cut the 3rd, and if we have a rookie keep him in clipboard cocoon for a year. Which brings us to the 3rd QB. Of the 3 on the roster, the only one with any market value is EJ. Cassel is the only vet with lengthy NFL experience, so provided he's healthy it's hard to see him being cut. That means a roster spot is on the line between EJ and Tyrod. Winner take all. If both are performing at an equal level you trade EJ since he has more market value. That's just the cold, hard, objective reality folks. I know some on this board might not like to hear it, but that's life.
GunnerBill Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I think the consensus was that EJ Manuel was a 2nd to 3rd round pick that was over drafted due to a huge need at that position. It happens from time to time. I am not interested in when the expiration date is on the experiement. I like EJ, I said then and still say that if I had to take a Quarterback out of that class he was the guy I'd have gone with. My thought is purely it would be interesting to know how Monos and Fisher had him graded. I think the thing with EJ was that he wasn't a consensus anything coming out. He was one of those polarising prospects that was all over people's boards. There were 3 or 4 teams rumoured to have him as the best QB in that class and there were others who had him as the 6th best Quarterback in that class and probably people who had him everywhere between. Of the three top guys in our scouting department we can make a fairly educated guess that Whaley graded him highly - but we don't know whether Monos or Fisher did. I think if they didn't that might be a factor in encouraging them in starting to look at guys who might be there when we pick at #50.
Jauronimo Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 nail meet head. I eagerly wait similar articles as the offseason drags on like "Why the Bills Should Consider Trading Hogan but Ultimately Shouldn't go Through With It", and "Should the Bills Try to Trade Up in the 3rd Round of the Draft?".
1billsfan Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I look at EJ as just another QB prospect in camp. No more, no less, and his original draft position is of no consequence anymore. We have 3 equal competitors for the starting position, maybe 4 if we draft a QB with our 2nd or 3rd rd pick. If during camp EJ is more impressive than the others ride him. If he's less, trade him while he still has some value. I am not interested in nurturing any of the QBs currently on the roster. Keep the top two performers, trade/cut the 3rd, and if we have a rookie keep him in clipboard cocoon for a year. Which brings us to the 3rd QB. Of the 3 on the roster, the only one with any market value is EJ. Cassel is the only vet with lengthy NFL experience, so provided he's healthy it's hard to see him being cut. That means a roster spot is on the line between EJ and Tyrod. Winner take all. If both are performing at an equal level you trade EJ since he has more market value. That's just the cold, hard, objective reality folks. I know some on this board might not like to hear it, but that's life. Objective reality is that there's basically no chance Manuel gets cut because NFL coaches know that it takes more than two months of training camp for QBs to get really comfortable in a new offense. So there's basically zero chance Manuel is not here for the full 2015 season. He is going to get a full third year of evaluation. I know you don't want to hear that, but that's life.
thebandit27 Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Objective reality is that there's basically no chance Manuel gets cut because NFL coaches know that it takes more than two months of training camp for QBs to get really comfortable in a new offense. So there's basically zero chance Manuel is not here for the full 2015 season. He is going to get a full third year of evaluation. I know you don't want to hear that, but that's life. They also aren't going to take a $3M+ cap hit just to cut the guy...that would be stupid.
negativo Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Objective reality is that there's basically no chance Manuel gets cut because NFL coaches know that it takes more than two months of training camp for QBs to get really comfortable in a new offense. So there's basically zero chance Manuel is not here for the full 2015 season. He is going to get a full third year of evaluation. I know you don't want to hear that, but that's life. Did you read what I wrote? You're making my point. I agree he won't get cut because he still has trade value. Taylor, on the other hand, could be cut because he has little or no trade value. If he looks as good or better than EJ than it would make more sense to trade EJ than cut Taylor. I have no bias. EJ to me is just another young player trying to make the team. Same goes with Taylor.
Dorkington Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 They also aren't going to take a $3M+ cap hit just to cut the guy...that would be stupid. But Leroi said...
FLFan Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I eagerly wait similar articles as the offseason drags on like "Why the Bills Should Consider Trading Hogan but Ultimately Shouldn't go Through With It", and "Should the Bills Try to Trade Up in the 3rd Round of the Draft?". I think it's time for a "Why ESPN should fire Mike Rodak" thread.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 EJ "should" beat out Cassell and Taylor. He's more physically talented than both of them together. If he can't he'll either play out his contact as a backup, or they'll get what they can for him. It won't really matter all that much if they trade him for a middling pick or keep him to hold the clipboard for two more seasons. The only thing that could make this thing murky is if he some how gets injured.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) EJ "should" beat out Cassell and Taylor. He's more physically talented than both of them together. If he can't he'll either play out his contact as a backup, or they'll get what they can for him. It won't really matter all that much if they trade him for a middling pick or keep him to hold the clipboard for two more seasons. The only thing that could make this thing murky is if he some how gets injured. So size >>> athleticism when it comes to physical talent? Combine Results: EJ: 40 Time: 4.65s Vertical: 34" Broad Jump: 118" 3 Cone Drill: 7.08s 20 Yard Shuttle: 4.21 S Height: 6'5" Weight: 237 lbs Arm Length: 35" Hands: 10 3/8" Tyrod: 40 Time: 4.51s Vertical: 37.5" Broad Jump: 126" 3 Cone Drill: 6.78s 20 Yard Shuttle: 4.09s Height: 6'1" Weight: 217 Arm Length: 32 1/4" Hands: 10" Edited April 21, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13
John from Riverside Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 A lot of it is about playing when the bullets are flying, but not all of it. EJ had an entire offseason to learn from his mistakes, build up chemistry, and to practice reading some of the defenses that he saw in between his 10th and 11th start. Bortles did not. It's about making progress your second year. Unfair comparison. What if Bortles regresses in his 2nd year? I look at EJ as just another QB prospect in camp. No more, no less, and his original draft position is of no consequence anymore. We have 3 equal competitors for the starting position, maybe 4 if we draft a QB with our 2nd or 3rd rd pick. If during camp EJ is more impressive than the others ride him. If he's less, trade him while he still has some value. I am not interested in nurturing any of the QBs currently on the roster. Keep the top two performers, trade/cut the 3rd, and if we have a rookie keep him in clipboard cocoon for a year. Which brings us to the 3rd QB. Of the 3 on the roster, the only one with any market value is EJ. Cassel is the only vet with lengthy NFL experience, so provided he's healthy it's hard to see him being cut. That means a roster spot is on the line between EJ and Tyrod. Winner take all. If both are performing at an equal level you trade EJ since he has more market value. That's just the cold, hard, objective reality folks. I know some on this board might not like to hear it, but that's life. Does anyone really think EJ Manuel has ANY trade value at the moment? I am not going to lie Tyrod Taylor intrigues me If for no other reason then I actually have not gotten a chance to watch him play and I know Rex is gonna give him a legit chance to show what he has got I keep going back to this.....he hung around as the backup QB to the ravens for years.......they had a good QB in Flacco.......during that time - No other QB beat him out as the backup - Flacco could have gone down for the season at any given time and Taylor would have been the QB of that team......the ravens thought ENOUGH of Tyrod to put him in that position
FireChan Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 What if Bortles regresses in his 2nd year? Does anyone really think EJ Manuel has ANY trade value at the moment? I am not going to lie Tyrod Taylor intrigues me If for no other reason then I actually have not gotten a chance to watch him play and I know Rex is gonna give him a legit chance to show what he has got I keep going back to this.....he hung around as the backup QB to the ravens for years.......they had a good QB in Flacco.......during that time - No other QB beat him out as the backup - Flacco could have gone down for the season at any given time and Taylor would have been the QB of that team......the ravens thought ENOUGH of Tyrod to put him in that position What does Bortles regressing his second year have to do with a comparison made today?
John from Riverside Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 What does Bortles regressing his second year have to do with a comparison made today? Reason being you have to give QBs time to see where their ceiling actually is. If Bortles regresses in his second year (and he lets face it........he is doomed with some of these coaches that the jags have brought in) Then what?
FireChan Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Reason being you have to give QBs time to see where their ceiling actually is. If Bortles regresses in his second year (and he lets face it........he is doomed with some of these coaches that the jags have brought in) Then what? Ceiling is in the eye of the beholder. Some say Alex Smith, some say Colin Kaep, some say Joe Flacco. If Bortles goes out there and plays worse his second year, and plays worse than Chad Henne, and you're in a position to make a playoff run, you play Henne.
John from Riverside Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Ceiling is in the eye of the beholder. Some say Alex Smith, some say Colin Kaep, some say Joe Flacco. If Bortles goes out there and plays worse his second year, and plays worse than Chad Henne, and you're in a position to make a playoff run, you play Henne. Fair enough.....I have always been under the philosphy that the best QB should play (or the qb that is playing better.....whichever way u look at it)
Dorkington Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Ceiling is in the eye of the beholder. Some say Alex Smith, some say Colin Kaep, some say Joe Flacco. If Bortles goes out there and plays worse his second year, and plays worse than Chad Henne, and you're in a position to make a playoff run, you play Henne. You think EJ played worse in his second season?
John from Riverside Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 You think EJ played worse in his second season? Dork....the eye test does tell me that EJ didnt play well in his second season....... I thought he was putting that ball in possible interception situations much more......but I also thought he was much better with his sideline and anticipation passes. Personally....I thought Marrone panicked and pulled EJ too early.....after I went back on NFL rewind and watched the games I am in FIRM belief of that.
Dorkington Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Dork....the eye test does tell me that EJ didnt play well in his second season....... I thought he was putting that ball in possible interception situations much more......but I also thought he was much better with his sideline and anticipation passes. Personally....I thought Marrone panicked and pulled EJ too early.....after I went back on NFL rewind and watched the games I am in FIRM belief of that. I just thought earlier in the thread, we were supposed to ignore the second season, because the sample size was too small. For all we know, in his 5th game, he could have put together a perfect QBR while blowing out the opposition. Or are we only counting his second season if it makes him look less promising? I have a hard time keeping up with this topic.
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