Doc Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 He's an excellent backup? How do we know? Take a look around the league.
FireChan Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Take a look around the league. I have. I've seen many QB's get worse and worse as they play more and there's more tape. Trent was playing like "at least an excellent back up," only a year or two before he was out of football all together.
Doc Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 I have. I've seen many QB's get worse and worse as they play more and there's more tape. Trent was playing like "at least an excellent back up," only a year or two before he was out of football all together. And I've seen QB's play poorly when they have a poor scheme and/or protection.
John from Riverside Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 I have. I've seen many QB's get worse and worse as they play more and there's more tape. Trent was playing like "at least an excellent back up," only a year or two before he was out of football all together. It really is not that simple
1billsfan Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 He's an excellent backup? How do we know? Isn't that the point? Know one knows anything right now, whether EJ's an NFL franchise QB or an NFL back up or out of the league in a couple of years, until Manuel starts playing under Greg Roman's system. A proven NFL offensive system that has reached the Superbowl a few short years ago and has used two totally different QB styles. That's why it's so dumb to put any credence in that idiot's ESPN article. Trading away a still developing QB like Manuel for a fourth round pick is the absolute height of stupidity. That fourth round pick is not worth the risk of trading away Manuel and him becoming a franchise QB with a team like the Steelers or the Giants. Even if there's only 1% chance Manuel becomes a franchise QB, it's not worth a fourth round pick. That jackass left out the fact that Peyton Manning was signed four days before they traded Tebow so his whole argument is based off a false narrative in comparing what the Broncos did to what the Bills would be "wise" to consider doing. Two questions, do you think that there's at least a 1% chance EJ Manuel is a franchise QB?...if so, would you still trade Manuel for a fourth round pick?
FireChan Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Isn't that the point? Know one knows anything right now, whether EJ's an NFL franchise QB or an NFL back up or out of the league in a couple of years, until Manuel starts playing under Greg Roman's system. A proven NFL offensive system that has reached the Superbowl a few short years ago and has used two totally different QB styles. That's why it's so dumb to put any credence in that idiot's ESPN article. Trading away a still developing QB like Manuel for a fourth round pick is the absolute height of stupidity. That fourth round pick is not worth the risk of trading away Manuel and him becoming a franchise QB with a team like the Steelers or the Giants. Even if there's only 1% chance Manuel becomes a franchise QB, it's not worth a fourth round pick. That jackass left out the fact that Peyton Manning was signed four days before they traded Tebow so his whole argument is based off a false narrative in comparing what the Broncos did to what the Bills would be "wise" to consider doing. Two questions, do you think that there's at least a 1% chance EJ Manuel is a franchise QB?...if so, would you still trade Manuel for a fourth round pick? That is my point. How do we know he's an excellent back up? And I've seen QB's play poorly when they have a poor scheme and/or protection. Is Kyle Orton really relevant here?
John from Riverside Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 That is my point. How do we know he's an excellent back up? Is Kyle Orton really relevant here? Come on Chan u know what he is trying to say Lets go back to Edwards....... A lot of people feel that Trent started playing badly after he took the vicious hit.....but he did in fact come out and play well for one game after that....how do we know that it wasnt a matter of the OC not being able to adjust to what defenses are doing...... You know its interesting because it takes me back to what Rex Ryan (and Greg Roman) want to do......run the ball......if you can effectively run the ball then taking a QB out of the game plan becomes obsolete....because you have a foundation that you can fall back on that is gonna work no matter what.......and now the QB becomes on jockey on the back of a racehorse.
FireChan Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Come on Chan u know what he is trying to say Lets go back to Edwards....... A lot of people feel that Trent started playing badly after he took the vicious hit.....but he did in fact come out and play well for one game after that....how do we know that it wasnt a matter of the OC not being able to adjust to what defenses are doing...... You know its interesting because it takes me back to what Rex Ryan (and Greg Roman) want to do......run the ball......if you can effectively run the ball then taking a QB out of the game plan becomes obsolete....because you have a foundation that you can fall back on that is gonna work no matter what.......and now the QB becomes on jockey on the back of a racehorse. Every team without a good QB wants to run the ball effectively and always be able to fall back on it, John. It's not that simple to run the ball and have it "work no matter what." No. I don't know what he's trying to say. Either EJ is this amorphous blob of QB talent or he's "an excellent backup." He can't be both. Young QB's go up or down, they don't plateau this early.
John from Riverside Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Every team without a good QB wants to run the ball effectively and always be able to fall back on it, John. It's not that simple to run the ball and have it "work no matter what." No. I don't know what he's trying to say. Either EJ is this amorphous blob of QB talent or he's "an excellent backup." He can't be both. Young QB's go up or down, they don't plateau this early. Is it fair to say that we really dont know what EJ Manuel is? I think that is fair given the situation......I am willing to let Greg Roman figure that out..... And no...not every team wants to effectively run the ball.......a lot of teams subscribe to "its a passing league" I do believe in the "lets run the ball" offense though especially when you have our defense. I am in wait and see mode on a lot of this......Rex Roman has been proclaimed a "innovator" by many.......I want to see it first I am a little nervous about our OL situation....expecially when every coach that gets near a mike says that they have work to do in that area.
1billsfan Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Is it fair to say that we really dont know what EJ Manuel is? I think that is fair given the situation......I am willing to let Greg Roman figure that out..... And no...not every team wants to effectively run the ball.......a lot of teams subscribe to "its a passing league" I do believe in the "lets run the ball" offense though especially when you have our defense. I am in wait and see mode on a lot of this......Rex Roman has been proclaimed a "innovator" by many.......I want to see it first I am a little nervous about our OL situation....expecially when every coach that gets near a mike says that they have work to do in that area. I know they don't want to hear this, but it may take Manuel training camp and half the season to become comfortable in an entirely new system. These young QBs don't get as much off season practice time as they used to. There are so many variables that any and all things are possible. It's possible Cassel may start the season because he grasps the offense much more quickly and Manuel comes in midway through the season, due to either poor play or an injury to Cassel, and Manuel could look very good because he had the extra time to get the offense down without being rushed.
John from Riverside Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 I know they don't want to hear this, but it may take Manuel training camp and half the season to become comfortable in an entirely new system. These young QBs don't get as much off season practice time as they used to. There are so many variables that any and all things are possible. It's possible Cassel may start the season because he grasps the offense much more quickly and Manuel comes in midway through the season, due to either poor play or an injury to Cassel, and Manuel could look very good because he had the extra time to get the offense down without being rushed. And if that happens I am ok with that A side note to this.....Rex Ryan keeps talking up TT every time he gets
1billsfan Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) And if that happens I am ok with that A side note to this.....Rex Ryan keeps talking up TT every time he gets I really think that's a draft smoke screen. I think they have a QB targeted in the 3rd round that they would take there. I don't know who that is but I'm sure it's one of either Petty, Hundley or Grayson. I'm sure he likes him, but to gush like that only days before the draft sounds fishy to me. The Bills new coaches probably would like an extra QB option for next year. Now if all of those QBs are gone by the 3rd round pick then they'll start scouting the 2016 class while hoping like heck EJ Manuel locks down the position during this season. Edited April 19, 2015 by 1billsfan
Doc Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 That is my point. How do we know he's an excellent back up? Is Kyle Orton really relevant here? I'd say a 6-8 record and more TDs than INTs in a bad system say he is an excellent back up QB. Again look around the league at the backup QBs. And Kyle Orton is irrelevant. He retired.
FireChan Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 I'd say a 6-8 record and more TDs than INTs in a bad system say he is an excellent back up QB. Again look around the league at the backup QBs. And Kyle Orton is irrelevant. He retired. Remember when Thad was an excellent back-up? He had a decent record, more TD's than INT's. Then he wasn't so excellent.
Doc Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Remember when Thad was an excellent back-up? He had a decent record, more TD's than INT's. Then he wasn't so excellent. No, I don't. Because it lasted all of 1 game.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 I don't get the emotion around this story. The headline was a bit of a grabber but the recommendation of trading EJ was contingent upon him still looking bad after they start practicing. If EJ can't establish him self as the front runner or at least a strong contender for the starting job early, why wouldn't they fish to see who might think they could do better?? There is nothing remotely inaccurate, saddening or controversial...
Doc Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 I don't get the emotion around this story. The headline was a bit of a grabber but the recommendation of trading EJ was contingent upon him still looking bad after they start practicing. If EJ can't establish him self as the front runner or at least a strong contender for the starting job early, why wouldn't they fish to see who might think they could do better?? There is nothing remotely inaccurate, saddening or controversial... If he doesn't look good after they start practicing and then the Bills start looking to trade him, teams will be able to smell that out a mile away. They'll just wait for him to be released.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 If he doesn't look good after they start practicing and then the Bills start looking to trade him, teams will be able to smell that out a mile away. They'll just wait for him to be released. Perhaps... Remember the NFL is made up of a lot of big egos. All it takes is one front office with a collective ego that thinks they can succeed where other have failed. It's basically what chip kelly is saying about Bradford
Rocky Landing Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I don't get the emotion around this story. The headline was a bit of a grabber but the recommendation of trading EJ was contingent upon him still looking bad after they start practicing. If EJ can't establish him self as the front runner or at least a strong contender for the starting job early, why wouldn't they fish to see who might think they could do better?? There is nothing remotely inaccurate, saddening or controversial... The notion is that we trade him NOW before his trade value drops, al a Tebow. But, there's a lot missing from the comparison, including the value of a fourth round pick (assuming we could even get that-- we might) for this team, vs a fourth round pick for the Broncos back in 2013, with Manning under center vs the loss of a mediocre backup. Edited April 20, 2015 by Rocky Landing
FireChan Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 No, I don't. Because it lasted all of 1 game. What? Thad went 2-3 as a starter, and threw more TD's than INT's. By your criteria, he was an excellent back-up. One season later, he was cut for sucking so bad.
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