ExiledInIllinois Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) I'd rather watch a good team on television every day than a bad team in person even once. Wirtz' team was terrible in every sense of the word - the stars that made the team had nothing to do with them and the guys they developed left as soon as their first deals were up. Missing the playoffs 90% of the time isn't good business, period. And I'm not clueless where the game has been going. I've been complaining about how the NHL is pricing regular people out of the building for 2 decades. It's greed in the purest form. Luckily my team isn't anywhere near where I live so it doesn't much matter to me. I can follow them for about $100 a year. Because the Redwings and Blackhawks have similar talent, right? WRONG. All things being equal, the results likely aren't much different if any of the top 10 NHL coaches changed places. Fair enough AD. Be careful what you wish for. Whole generations can't take in a Bears game because of the New NFL they sold their soul to. Some want TPegs to do the same w/the Bills. Thank God the Sabres can straddle the line between big and small. With regards to the Bills, I hope they stay in the same stadium. Bye bye 10 buck parking... You do wonder why teams like the Lightning get pissed about Chicago fans invading their arena... It's been happening in Nashville. You have to have at least a local PO box to buy tickets. Where were the fans 10 years ago... They were there, just laying low waiting for Rocky to fleece their pocket book. Old Man Wirtz was a miser... BUT he held things dear: His ideals. Not putting a consistent winner on the ice gets reviled as dissing the fan. Guess who is being dissed now? If Old Man Wirtz threatens to move the team, he would be hearlded as the next Ralph! Just be careful what you wish for... Wirtzy knew it. Yes, he is seen in a negative light. Any wonder he hitched his horse to no TV. You say you been against the rising price of the game the last 2-3 decades... Hmmm TV. Yet... It doesn't matter to you... You get TV for a 100 bucks a year. That's gr8. NHL going the way of the NFL for the masses. Edited June 17, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Where were the fans 10 years ago... IMO, right where they should have been. Not supporting a bad product or bad business practices. Would Rocky have made the necessary changes if the empty seats and bad will toward Bill had not occurred? Highly unlikely. As for the NHL going the way of the NFL (or life itself), that's to be expected when the population continues to grow and the number of seats for sale are finite. Supply and demand isn't exactly a new concept.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Congrats to the Blackhawks. They were really fun to watch all playoffs. Given the way the Blackhawks limped into the playoffs had made me quite skeptical of their chances this year. I scoffed a bit at the other Blackhawk fans mentioning the 'playoff switch'. But boy was I wrong. The toughest series was the Ducks but as soon as it became evident that the pounding imposed by the Ducks would not wear out the limited Chicago defense, the glimmer of hope started becoming a beacon. Make no mistake, I think highly of Coach Q. Yes he has Kane and Toews but what he did with the shortage of D men is nothing short of awesome. Edited June 17, 2015 by Fan in Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Given the way the Blackhawks limped into the playoffs had made me quite skeptical of their chances this year. I scoffed a bit at the other Blackhawk fans mentioning the 'playoff switch'. But boy was I wrong. The toughest series was the Ducks but as soon as it became evident that the pounding imposed by the Ducks would not wear out the limited Chicago defense, the glimmer of hope started becoming a beacon. Make no mistake, I think highly of Coach Q. Yes he has Kane and Toews but what he did with the shortage of D men is nothing short of awesome. He didn't do anything magical. He gave the big minutes to the top 4 and played a little matchup with 5&6. It was coaching 101. The Blackhawks won the Cup because they made the most of their chances and the Lightening didn't. It was a pretty typical series between two pretty equal teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) IMO, right where they should have been. Not supporting a bad product or bad business practices. Keeping the cost low to attend the game is bad business? Wirtz was nothing short of Ralph w/out being able to hold the city hostage with the threat of moving. The 'Hawks had very good teams in the 1980's... Oilers were better. The bad spell they ('Hawks in early 2000's) went through was mild compared to the Bills the last 2 decades. Again, be careful what we wish for.... Edited June 17, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Keeping the cost low to attend the game is bad business? Wirtz was nothing short of Ralph w/out being able to hold the city hostage with the threat of moving. The 'Hawks had very good teams in the 1980's... Oilers were better. The bad spell they ('Hawks in early 2000's) went through was mild compared to the Bills the last 2 decades. Again, be careful what we wish for.... Bull. The BILLS have been profitable every year. The Blackhawks couldn't make monthly payroll and were hemorrhaging money. Everything about the franchise was broken. Comparing football and hockey economics is ludicrous and comparing the BILLS and the Blackhawks is even dumber. Business has always been about adapting or dying. Wirtz was a dinosaur who profited as much from his Chicago political connections as his business acumen. He was right that the economics of the game was broken (and it still is) but his unwillingness to see how important television was going to be to growing his fan base and revenue streams was beyond stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Bull. The BILLS have been profitable every year. The Blackhawks couldn't make monthly payroll and were hemorrhaging money. Everything about the franchise was broken. Comparing football and hockey economics is ludicrous and comparing the BILLS and the Blackhawks is even dumber. Business has always been about adapting or dying. Wirtz was a dinosaur who profited as much from his Chicago political connections as his business acumen. He was right that the economics of the game was broken (and it still is) but his unwillingness to see how important television was going to be to growing his fan base and revenue streams was beyond stupid. But why were people coming to see bad Bills teams... Threat of relocating? No. This is classic bandwagon. They can't scratch up 20k a night out of a 10 million market from WI to IN? They do in Toronto with bad teams. The Cubs do it. I don't buy the "because they weren't on TV." That's just excuse. "Growing his fan base." LMAO... You gotta be kidding. The fan base didn't need to grow. It was there all the while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 But why were people coming to see bad Bills teams... Threat of relocating? No. This is classic bandwagon. They can't scratch up 20k a night out of a 10 million market from WI to IN? They do in Toronto with bad teams. The Cubs do it. I don't buy the "because they weren't on TV." That's just excuse. "Growing his fan base." LMAO... You gotta be kidding. The fan base didn't need to grow. It was there all the while. The Riddler strikes again. Comparing things that are clearly incomparable doesn't a cogent argument make. There's a reason Rocky Wirtz undid all those things you and ol' Bill held dear - they were stupid and because of them the team was losing large amounts of money and had lost appeal to nearly a generation of fans. One of them was hiring one of the top Cubs' execs - because he needed to get those fans back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The Riddler strikes again. Comparing things that are clearly incomparable doesn't a cogent argument make. There's a reason Rocky Wirtz undid all those things you and ol' Bill held dear - they were stupid and because of them the team was losing large amounts of money and had lost appeal to nearly a generation of fans. One of them was hiring one of the top Cubs' execs - because he needed to get those fans back. The lemmings are lining up @ the cliff. They need their leader Darin stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I give Blackhawks fans a pass for the Bill Wirtz era. It was a miserable existence. I would liken it to our bankrupcy years. Look at our fan base during that. Even with the team in danger we couldn't get more than 6-7K on a lot of nights. it was depressing. I give Islanders fans a pass too. Such awful mismanagement on and off the ice for over 2 decades. Drives people away. I knew a lot of great Isles fans in college who have even been turned off a bit... but some seem to have been energized this year, probably with an exciting team and the last year at NVMC and Long Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I give Blackhawks fans a pass for the Bill Wirtz era. It was a miserable existence. I would liken it to our bankrupcy years. Look at our fan base during that. Even with the team in danger we couldn't get more than 6-7K on a lot of nights. it was depressing. I give Islanders fans a pass too. Such awful mismanagement on and off the ice for over 2 decades. Drives people away. I knew a lot of great Isles fans in college who have even been turned off a bit... but some seem to have been energized this year, probably with an exciting team and the last year at NVMC and Long Island. Reasonable. But it wasn't that miserable under Wirtz as they want you to believe. Boo hoo, we don't have a cable contract. Sure the early 2000's we bad... But not as bad as The Bills. Would you have given us Bills fans a pass if we didn't show the last 15 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Reasonable. But it wasn't that miserable under Wirtz as they want you to believe. Boo hoo, we don't have a cable contract. Sure the early 2000's we bad... But not as bad as The Bills. Would you have given us Bills fans a pass if we didn't show the last 15 years? FOOTBALL IS NOT HOCKEY, YOU MORON. If the BILLS' homegames weren't on television, the team would be in Los Angeles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Enjoy flying to Nashville and Tampa and making the problem of pricing for the rest of League because as a fan of the Blackhawks, one can't afford to take in a game 15 minutes from your home. New York Rangers all the way... Cheaper to fly to LA, get hotel, ticket, etc... Then take in the game @ MSG. WTF. Yeah, hockey will really take off! FOOTBALL IS NOT HOCKEY, YOU MORON. If the BILLS' homegames weren't on television, the team would be in Los Angeles. Holy leap Batman... I never said it was. Thanks for the NewsFlash Einstein. No kidding? Really? No! Just quit now. You are so clueless is isn't funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) He didn't do anything magical. He gave the big minutes to the top 4 and played a little matchup with 5&6. It was coaching 101. The Blackhawks won the Cup because they made the most of their chances and the Lightening didn't. It was a pretty typical series between two pretty equal teams. Nothing is magical in sports. But motivation, adjusting to the opponent and creating advantageous matchups is all about coaching. I don't see how you can downplay him consistently out maneuvering the opponent. In this season, finishing the regular season with an injured Kane and Roszival out , caused several including me to be incredibly skeptical of their chances to win it all. Ducks took a physical strategy, Lightning are similar to the Hawks. But the Hawks beat both teams - its about talent but also a lot about coaching. And you sai 'because they made the most of their chances' as if it is run of the mill sports. Come on - you can say that with a large majority of hockey games. I don't see the logic of you downplaying Coach Q or the team as a whole. Edited June 18, 2015 by Fan in Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Reasonable. But it wasn't that miserable under Wirtz as they want you to believe. Boo hoo, we don't have a cable contract. Sure the early 2000's we bad... But not as bad as The Bills. Would you have given us Bills fans a pass if we didn't show the last 15 years? As mentioned, football is another beast. I will say that I didnt think our fan base and city were well represented the last decade or so. A lot of people were tuned out and waiting for things to turn.... Under Mr Wilson it wasnt changing or at least there wasnt a perception. I feared the team would be relocated and not a lot a lot of sympathy would be had because all games wouldnt sell out. Now we are seeing our fan base... and once the team becomes competitive.... watch out. With the Blackhawks (and with any Championship caliber team)... sure there are a TON of bandwagoners. I do consider Chicago a good hockey city though and a good, solid fan base. Cant argue with the heritage and history. If it means anything... Chicago has way way more bandwagon fans IMO that LA has with Kings and Ducks... and even Boston and the Rangers with their recent success. I think that fact shows Chicago is kind of a legit hockey city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Nothing is magical in sports. But motivation, adjusting to the opponent and creating advantageous matchups is all about coaching. I don't see how you can downplay him consistently out maneuvering the opponent. In this season, finishing the regular season with an injured Kane and Roszival out , caused several including me to be incredibly skeptical of their chances to win it all. Ducks took a physical strategy, Lightning are similar to the Hawks. But the Hawks beat both teams - its about talent but also a lot about coaching. And you sai 'because they made the most of their chances' as if it is run of the mill sports. Come on - you can say that with a large majority of hockey games. I don't see the logic of you downplaying Coach Q or the team as a whole. Spot on! Did you catch the gr8 sports page... I think it was the Sun-Times... It showed a blender with all the players in it and talked about what Q does to "mix it up." When they dumped Savard for Q early... That was the E-Ride ticket to dynasty destiny! I have always argued that coaching in hockey is a good 30-40%... Talent is 60-70% of the equation. This can even be more extreme skewed to coaching w/some teams. IMO. Edited June 18, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 But why were people coming to see bad Bills teams... Threat of relocating? Whatcha talkin bout Willis? When I bought my Bills season tickets in 1984, Erkie Kailbourne and the "Business Backs the Bills" group were scrambling to find ways to get fanny's in the Rich Stadium seats with massively discounted prices. Local companies were footing 25% of the cost of a season ticket just to get prices low enough that people would say, "what the hell this is too cheap to pass up." I paid a whopping $200 for a pair of 50-yard line seats in the 12th row of the upper deck ($400 in today's money). Try finding a deal like that in today's NFL. Attendance didn't improve until Kelly and company came along. Just as it did with the Blackhawks when their current core began to develop 5-7 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Nothing is magical in sports. But motivation, adjusting to the opponent and creating advantageous matchups is all about coaching. I don't see how you can downplay him consistently out maneuvering the opponent. In this season, finishing the regular season with an injured Kane and Roszival out , caused several including me to be incredibly skeptical of their chances to win it all. Ducks took a physical strategy, Lightning are similar to the Hawks. But the Hawks beat both teams - its about talent but also a lot about coaching. And you sai 'because they made the most of their chances' as if it is run of the mill sports. Come on - you can say that with a large majority of hockey games. I don't see the logic of you downplaying Coach Q or the team as a whole. He's such a great coach that the team couldn't win a game down the stretch but the second Kane comes back and he's able to shorten his bench all of the sudden they're a Cup contender. The Blackhawks are a typical Cup winning team. They make plays when it matters and don't make the series killing mental mistakes. If Stamkos finishes a couple of the litany of chances he had in the series instead of hitting posts/beating them into Crawford's pads, then Tampa is just as likely the Cup winner. It was a good series that could have gone either way, as evidenced by the fact that the first 2 goal lead happened with 5 minutes to go in Game 6. If you need to make it into something it wasn't, then good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Holy leap Batman... I never said it was. Thanks for the NewsFlash Einstein. No kidding? Really? No! Just quit now. You are so clueless is isn't funny. Nice job, Riddler. Your finest work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 He's such a great coach that the team couldn't win a game down the stretch but the second Kane comes back and he's able to shorten his bench all of the sudden they're a Cup contender. The Blackhawks are a typical Cup winning team. They make plays when it matters and don't make the series killing mental mistakes. If Stamkos finishes a couple of the litany of chances he had in the series instead of hitting posts/beating them into Crawford's pads, then Tampa is just as likely the Cup winner. It was a good series that could have gone either way, as evidenced by the fact that the first 2 goal lead happened with 5 minutes to go in Game 6. If you need to make it into something it wasn't, then good for you. Read what you just wrote. There are excellent players on the playoff teams. Stamkos, Johnston, Hedman are some of the best at their position. As there are several on the Blackhawks teams. First you refuse to give Coach Q credit. Then you say that the team makes plays when it matters. I say that the difference in these little things is how the lines are assembled and coached to play. In many sports, little things separate winners from losers as even in football games. Are you attributing the winning to dumb luck ? That somehow Stamkos, by severe bad luck, just forgot how to score in the finals ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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