Beerball Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 This question first occurred to me when the Cavs were leading the finals. Could Blatt actually lose his job if the Cavs won the title? Now that we know that they didn't win, what's the likelihood that Blatt returns as Cavs coach next season? Personally I'd put the over/under at 31%.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 This question first occurred to me when the Cavs were leading the finals. Could Blatt actually lose his job if the Cavs won the title? Now that we know that they didn't win, what's the likelihood that Blatt returns as Cavs coach next season? Personally I'd put the over/under at 31%. I had the same reaction. I say it's 50/50 he's gone now. A buddy of mine thinks the Cavs need a really experienced coach, who Lebron will follow. Kind of like belichick to brady. But I think they will go with Tyrone Lue, who strikes me as a bit of a LeBron yes man.
FireChan Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I'd say it's 80/20 that he stays in Cleveland. It makes more sense for both sides despite the struggles. Will he opt in or will he sign the 5 year $100M deal? My guess is that he bets on himself and he opts in hoping for a bounce back year and then sign a max when the cap escalates. It's possible that he is concerned about his health and locks in the $100m deal now. It is definitely likely that he is back in Cleveland though. If he isn't back I think that it comes as a sign and trade. One of the rumors down here was a sign and trade of Ryan Anderson & Tyreke Evans for Love. Personally, I wouldn't be a fan because I don't think that Love can defend at all. There are some rumors like that out there but the Cavs are certainly the favorite. Pelican's need scoring though. Davis is great, but he can't be the post presence on offense and defense, and drop 30 every night. With Love, I'd say the Pelicans get at least to the second round.
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Is there any chance he'll ditch Cleveland again? I got a bad feeling when he said he has a "secret motivation" to win the championship this year. no.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Pelican's need scoring though. Davis is great, but he can't be the post presence on offense and defense, and drop 30 every night. With Love, I'd say the Pelicans get at least to the second round.It's an interesting thought for sure.The core of Davis, Love & Holiday would be pretty solid (and young). I prefer to wait for next year though and chase Durant. There is a great piece that the guy from Bourbon Street Shots (basically the Rob Quinn of Pelicans basketball) did on moves that can be made moving forward. They will be in prime position after this season (2015-2016) if they play their cards right.
eball Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I don't care much for the argument myself because the sport is so different based on the position you play. Era's are so different as well it really makes is impossible to compare players. Bill Russell dominate his era playing center and is thought of as the consummate winner and one of the greatest defenders of all time. He was on a team that was absolutely loaded and before free agency. John Havliceck, Bob Cousy, and 4 other Hall of Famers. He also was 6'9" and 220 and dominated the paint. LeBron is bigger than that and plays SF. Jordan is thought of as the reason the Bulls won 6 championships. They won 57 games the year before his hiatus. They won 55 without him and, if not for a poor ref call, could have made it back to the NBA Championship. I don't know why they have to be stacked in any particular order. What I do now is I just saw a player strap a team on his back like I never had before. That said even the best player on the planet (he is) can't do it alone. This is where LeBron has gotten screwed. Playing in the unbelievably bad East every year helps him have an easier path to the Finals. Once he gets there though he has to play a team that has battled through the Western Conference and is already battle tested. Looking at his 2 Finals with the Cavs nobody was picking them to win. Especially this year after Kyrie went down. His first year with the Heat he learned a ton and was a different player the next 2 Finals. It isn't surprising that they won. His last year with the Heat DWade was a shell of himself and I still can't believe the shooting exhibition the Spurs put on. He makes the Finals with sub-par teams sometimes and unfortunately it seems to be tinting some people's perception of his legacy. The East is so bad... I respect your comments, but I've never seen a player "will" his team to win like Jordan. MJ did what LeBron has done early in his career -- those first Bulls teams were awful but made it to the playoffs and actually scared great teams like the Celtics and Pistons because of MJ. LeBron hasn't had to go through any "great" teams with either Cleveland or Miami -- as you accurately pointed out, the East has been awful. LeBron's two championships came with loaded Miami teams -- or at least just as loaded as any of Jordan's Bulls teams. People talk about LeBron's all-around game, but Jordan was a supreme defensive player. He won a defensive MVP and led the league in steals three times, all while leading the league in scoring for ten out of eleven years. Jordan (playing guard, and two inches shorter than LeBron) averaged only 0.9 fewer rebounds per game than LeBron. Jordan was the greatest of all time. LeBron is a great player and probably the best in the league right now.
LB3 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I respect your comments, but I've never seen a player "will" his team to win like Jordan. MJ did what LeBron has done early in his career -- those first Bulls teams were awful but made it to the playoffs and actually scared great teams like the Celtics and Pistons because of MJ. LeBron hasn't had to go through any "great" teams with either Cleveland or Miami -- as you accurately pointed out, the East has been awful. LeBron's two championships came with loaded Miami teams -- or at least just as loaded as any of Jordan's Bulls teams. People talk about LeBron's all-around game, but Jordan was a supreme defensive player. He won a defensive MVP and led the league in steals three times, all while leading the league in scoring for ten out of eleven years. Jordan (playing guard, and two inches shorter than LeBron) averaged only 0.9 fewer rebounds per game than LeBron. Jordan was the greatest of all time. LeBron is a great player and probably the best in the league right now. LeBron is also a supreme defender. He can defend 5 positions. MJ never carried a terrible team anywhere. He didn't do jack without a good supporting cast. The first playoff series he won only came when he had Pippen, Grant, Paxson and Oakley. I wouldn't call getting swept in the first round two years in a row scaring the Celtics. Maybe he scared the Bucks when he lost to them 1-3 in the first round when he was a rookie at age 22. When LeBron was 22, he carried to the Finals one of the worst roster that's ever been there. The legend of Jordan is greater than Jordan ever was. Also, the Heat were not as loaded as any Bulls championship team. The first two years, when Bosh and Wade were healthy, the Heat were close. After that, they were gimpy and the supporting cast wasn't nearly as good as the Bulls had. 1. LJ 2. MJ Edited June 18, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
FireChan Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 It's an interesting thought for sure.The core of Davis, Love & Holiday would be pretty solid (and young). I prefer to wait for next year though and chase Durant. There is a great piece that the guy from Bourbon Street Shots (basically the Rob Quinn of Pelicans basketball) did on moves that can be made moving forward. They will be in prime position after this season (2015-2016) if they play their cards right. The thing about "waiting" is that the Knicks did a similar thing back in 2007 for Lebron. And they ended up with Amar'e. Not that the Pelicans have the same level as talent as the Knicks did, but you can get screwed. I got Durant staying in OKC or going to the Wizards. I don't see him in NO. LeBron is also a supreme defender. He can defend 5 positions. MJ never carried a terrible team anywhere. He didn't do jack without a good supporting cast. The first playoff series he won only came when he had Pippen, Grant, Paxson and Oakley. I wouldn't call getting swept in the first round two years in a row scaring the Celtics. Maybe he scared the Bucks when he lost to them 1-3 in the first round when he was a rookie at age 22. When LeBron was 22, he carried to the Finals one of the worst roster that's ever been there. The legend of Jordan is greater than Jordan ever was. Also, the Heat were not as loaded as any Bulls championship team. The first two years, when Bosh and Wade were healthy, the Heat were close. After that, they were gimpy and the supporting cast wasn't nearly as good as the Bulls had. 1. LJ 2. MJ Lebron is the only guy who gets praised for making his cast better, and the excuse that his cast sucks. Also, the Dallas loss team was the same as the 1st Heat Chip. Wade is a HoFer. MJ>LBJ.
LB3 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 The thing about "waiting" is that the Knicks did a similar thing back in 2007 for Lebron. And they ended up with Amar'e. Not that the Pelicans have the same level as talent as the Knicks did, but you can get screwed. I got Durant staying in OKC or going to the Wizards. I don't see him in NO. Lebron is the only guy who gets praised for making his cast better, and the excuse that his cast sucks. Also, the Dallas loss team was the same as the 1st Heat Chip. Wade is a HoFer. MJ>LBJ. That loss to the Mavs was absolutely on LeBron, can't deny that.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 The thing about "waiting" is that the Knicks did a similar thing back in 2007 for Lebron. And they ended up with Amar'e. Not that the Pelicans have the same level as talent as the Knicks did, but you can get screwed. I got Durant staying in OKC or going to the Wizards. I don't see him in NO. Agreed, the only reason that NO is even in the room is because they have the guy who is projected to be the best player in the league. He is in the conversation now and is trending up for sure. If he has another MVP-caliber season followed by a trip to the 2nd round KD would at least notice. The recruiting can take place leading up to Rio. I'm not saying that it is likely (maybe 5%) but the case could certainly be made. I have Durant 40% Washington, 30% OKC, 30% field.
FireChan Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 That loss to the Mavs was absolutely on LeBron, can't deny that. What Finals loss was on Jordan?
Alaska Darin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 LeBron is also a supreme defender. He can defend 5 positions. MJ never carried a terrible team anywhere. He didn't do jack without a good supporting cast. The first playoff series he won only came when he had Pippen, Grant, Paxson and Oakley. I wouldn't call getting swept in the first round two years in a row scaring the Celtics. Maybe he scared the Bucks when he lost to them 1-3 in the first round when he was a rookie at age 22. When LeBron was 22, he carried to the Finals one of the worst roster that's ever been there. The legend of Jordan is greater than Jordan ever was. Also, the Heat were not as loaded as any Bulls championship team. The first two years, when Bosh and Wade were healthy, the Heat were close. After that, they were gimpy and the supporting cast wasn't nearly as good as the Bulls had. 1. LJ 2. MJ That's a circular argument and you're not accounting for the quality of teams that each faced. Jordan didn't win early in his career with terrible teams against much better competition in his conference. That Bucks team you were talking about finished 20 games ahead of the Bulls in the regular season. If the Bulls had won that series it would have been history making. Lebron had better success in a much different situation (similarly weak team in a much weaker conference). Jordan's teams started to win Championships when Pippen finally got over the mental part of the game but the entire rest of the team was populated by interchangeable role players who were willing to put the team first. Any argument to the contrary (including Kukoc) is absurd. Neither Cleveland nor Miami have ever faced a conference opponent that was as good as the Pistons, Celtics or even the Pacers were in the Jordan era. Jordan never faced an opponent as good in the Finals as the Spurs teams that Lebron's teams has lost to. And the idea that Lebron can play all 5 positions defensively is ridiculous. I'd love to see him chasing Chris Paul around for an entire series.
Maury Ballstein Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I'm gonna throw up if someone else says LBJ>MJ MJ would not get shut down by JJ barea and Boris Diaw like the "king" has 2-4 should be 1-5 sans the Ray Allen bailout. That being said he's pretty effing good but let's take it easy w the goat talk.
LB3 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 What Finals loss was on Jordan? None of them. What subpar team did he ever win a first round series with? To one of your points in your last post, the reason everyone gives LeBron credit for making everyone around him better, is because no one ever singlehandedly lifted the play of each of his teammates the way LeBron has. 1992 Bulls (with MJ) - 57 wins 1993 Bulls (w/o MJ) - 55 wins 2008 Cavs (with LJ) - 61 wins 2009 Cavs (w/o LJ) - 19 wins I can't think of anyone who's ever left a team and seen that much of a dropoff.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 None of them. What subpar team did he ever win a first round series with? To one of your points in your last post, the reason everyone gives LeBron credit for making everyone around him better, is because no one ever singlehandedly lifted the play of each of his teammates the way LeBron has. 1992 Bulls (with MJ) - 57 wins 1993 Bulls (w/o MJ) - 55 wins 2008 Cavs (with LJ) - 61 wins 2009 Cavs (w/o LJ) - 19 wins I can't think of anyone who's ever left a team and seen that much of a dropoff. False.
LB3 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) That's a circular argument and you're not accounting for the quality of teams that each faced. Jordan didn't win early in his career with terrible teams against much better competition in his conference. That Bucks team you were talking about finished 20 games ahead of the Bulls in the regular season. If the Bulls had won that series it would have been history making. Lebron had better success in a much different situation (similarly weak team in a much weaker conference). Jordan's teams started to win Championships when Pippen finally got over the mental part of the game but the entire rest of the team was populated by interchangeable role players who were willing to put the team first. Any argument to the contrary (including Kukoc) is absurd. Neither Cleveland nor Miami have ever faced a conference opponent that was as good as the Pistons, Celtics or even the Pacers were in the Jordan era. Jordan never faced an opponent as good in the Finals as the Spurs teams that Lebron's teams has lost to. And the idea that Lebron can play all 5 positions defensively is ridiculous. I'd love to see him chasing Chris Paul around for an entire series. The Celtics teams that LeBron faced are easily better than those Pacers. It is an entirely different game now, so I don't know how the Celtics would have fared against the Pistons barnball. How would have the Pistons fared playing against the late 00's Celtics in today's NBA, where you can't play barnball? I don't agree that the league was so much better back then as everyone always claims. Now, with more people growing up playing basketball than ever (credit to Jordan, Magic and the rest of the Dream Team), there's somehow less talent. I just don't buy it. I say LeBron can play all 5, because I've seen it, so it's not ridiculous. He doesnt need to guard every position for an entire series, but if they need him to, he can for lengthy periods of games. I don't know if he could check a point guard like Paul for entire series, though I believe he could, or at least could have. He's shut down Rose when needed. He's offered good D against Howard and Hibbert when needed. He can guard anyone 2-4 without question. False. Link? Make sure it's at least close. Edit: Other players have lifted their teammates, so that was an error on my part. I meant as much as LeBron has. Edited June 18, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
Alaska Darin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 2008 Cavs (with LJ) - 61 wins 2009 Cavs (w/o LJ) - 19 wins I can't think of anyone who's ever left a team and seen that much of a dropoff. Anyone else leave that Cavs' team besides Lebron?
Deranged Rhino Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 The Celtics teams that LeBron faced are easily better than those Pacers. It is an entirely different game now, so I don't know how the Celtics would have fared against the Pistons barnball. How would have the Pistons fared playing against the late 00's Celtics in today's NBA, where you can't play barnball? I don't agree that the league was so much better back then as everyone always claims. Now, with more people growing up playing basketball than ever (credit to Jordan, Magic and the rest of the Dream Team), there's somehow less talent. I just don't buy it. I say LeBron can play all 5, because I've seen it, so it's not ridiculous. He doesnt need to guard every position for an entire series, but if they need him to, he can for lengthy periods of games. I don't know if he could check a point guard like Paul for entire series, though I believe he could, or at least could have. He's shut down Rose when needed. He's offered good D against Howard and Hibbert when needed. He can guard anyone 2-4 without question. Link? Make sure it's at least close. The league was not only deeper and more stocked with talent (from top to bottom), it was also a more physical game of basketball. You could hand check. You could actually play defense. LBJ wouldn't be slowed down by the physicality of the game in the 90s, he would still be an athletic specimen -- but to say that the 90s NBA was over hyped is just not accurate by any metric.
LB3 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 The league was not only deeper and more stocked with talent (from top to bottom), it was also a more physical game of basketball. You could hand check. You could actually play defense. LBJ wouldn't be slowed down by the physicality of the game in the 90s, he would still be an athletic specimen -- but to say that the 90s NBA was over hyped is just not accurate by any metric. So because the rules allowed hand checking and more physicality, it's that means all of the teams were deeper or better? To me, it just means the rules were different.
Alaska Darin Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 So because the rules allowed hand checking and more physicality, it's that means all of the teams were deeper or better? To me, it just means the rules were different. You've been sitting here the entire time talking about how the Bulls were loaded but now all the sudden they weren't?
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