Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 He enjoyed hanging out with, and is a close friend of a guy convicted of murder, due to go to trial for 2 other murders, and that shot a "friend" in the face. If Spikes ends up in trouble, will all the people that attacked the Pats for drafting and rewarding Hernandez ( "enabling" him), then attack the Bills with "all the signs were there with Spikes, they should be accountable"? I doubt it. Where we disagree is that I'm not seeing the signs there. There have been questions about Hernandez for years. He was questioned in a murder in college (think that it was another double murder drive by). He has alleged gang ties, etc... Spikes has never been questioned or suspected of anything like that to my knowledge. He was a teammate (twice) and friend of AH but that doesn't mean that he condones or was involved in anything that he did. I know that we are all trying to connect the dots but there are no indications that Spikes was at any of these places with AH. If Spikes were Carlos Ortiz I might agree. There are plenty of reasons to believe that he may have been involved. It is just not logical to say because they were friends he may be involved in AH's lifestyle. Where do we draw the line on which friends and associates "must be trouble?" Gronk? Brady? David Nelson? The Pouncey twins? Riley Cooper? While Spikes probably shouldn't have taken to Twitter to support it is not an indication that he is a criminal.
Prickly Pete Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Where we disagree is that I'm not seeing the signs there. There have been questions about Hernandez for years. He was questioned in a murder in college (think that it was another double murder drive by). He has alleged gang ties, etc... Spikes has never been questioned or suspected of anything like that to my knowledge. He was a teammate (twice) and friend of AH but that doesn't mean that he condones or was involved in anything that he did. I know that we are all trying to connect the dots but there are no indications that Spikes was at any of these places with AH. If Spikes were Carlos Ortiz I might agree. There are plenty of reasons to believe that he may have been involved. It is just not logical to say because they were friends he may be involved in AH's lifestyle. Where do we draw the line on which friends and associates "must be trouble?" Gronk? Brady? David Nelson? The Pouncey twins? Riley Cooper? While Spikes probably shouldn't have taken to Twitter to support it is not an indication that he is a criminal. I'm no "character comes first" guy, but Hernandez is a whole different level. I'm sure there have been a ton of players that have had shady associations, but this is one that is easily confirmed. My impression is that Spikes is a closer friend than other players mentioned. Of course I don't know how much time/what kinds of activities they engaged in together, but I'm pretty sure team officials around the league have some ideas. I definitely didn't imply that Spikes was involved in any of these murders. But I think it's clear that Hernandez was leading a pretty violent lifestyle (even for an NFL player). Hernandez was an obvious creep, with a long list of violent acts. He was known during his college career for violent behavior. Anybody that hung with that guy regularly (outside of team related activities), is a creep by association, because they should know better, as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen any indications that Tom Brady or Gronkowski hung out with him. David Nelson's "that's not the guy I knew" is absurd...if he is that dumb, then I wouldn't want him on the team either. Of course, you are free to buy his jersey, and jump up and down when he makes a play. I don't like him on the Bills.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I'm no "character comes first" guy, but Hernandez is a whole different level. I'm sure there have been a ton of players that have had shady associations, but this is one that is easily confirmed. My impression is that Spikes is a closer friend than other players mentioned. Of course I don't know how much time/what kinds of activities they engaged in together, but I'm pretty sure team officials around the league have some ideas. I definitely didn't imply that Spikes was involved in any of these murders. But I think it's clear that Hernandez was leading a pretty violent lifestyle (even for an NFL player). Hernandez was an obvious creep, with a long list of violent acts. He was known during his college career for violent behavior. Anybody that hung with that guy regularly (outside of team related activities), is a creep by association, because they should know better, as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen any indications that Tom Brady or Gronkowski hung out with him. David Nelson's "that's not the guy I knew" is absurd...if he is that dumb, then I wouldn't want him on the team either. Of course, you are free to buy his jersey, and jump up and down when he makes a play. I don't like him on the Bills. Hernandez is an absolute POS without a doubt. He always has been. The guilt by association thing though is quite a stretch though IMO. AH certainly has some pretty sketchy relationships but there do not seem to be any within the NFL. The closest is probably the "Free Hernandez" hat on the one Pouncey brother. That is really poor judgement but it is still not a reason to say "that guy is a criminal." I guess that it is pretty easy to understand why Spikes is sensitive to the verdict: http://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/for-florida-gators-brandon-spikes-brother-is-behind-bars-but-never-far/959156 ....Spikes to me feels like a "good egg." A high character guy that is motivated to do what's in the best interest of those around him. I guess that it's just tough for me to make a leap from "he put something stupid on Twitter" to "he must be involved in that lifestyle." I think that the more likely scenario is that he doesn't trust the justice system.
Gugny Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I guess that it's just tough for me to make a leap from "he put something stupid on Twitter" to "he must be involved in that lifestyle." It's tough for you because, frankly, it's a pretty stupid leap for anyone to make, if you ask me. People need to chill the !@#$ out.
Rocky Landing Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Risk vs reward - Spikes isn't good enough to smear the Bills imagine all over the interent, even if it's only for a couple of days. Pot is the gateway drug. Tweets show you what may be in store for this guy down the road. Miley Cyrus's flat @$$ vs. her really cool smoker's voice and enlightening personality? Risk vs. reward. Thanks for making sense of this... Hernandez is an absolute POS without a doubt. He always has been. The guilt by association thing though is quite a stretch though IMO. AH certainly has some pretty sketchy relationships but there do not seem to be any within the NFL. The closest is probably the "Free Hernandez" hat on the one Pouncey brother. That is really poor judgement but it is still not a reason to say "that guy is a criminal." I guess that it is pretty easy to understand why Spikes is sensitive to the verdict: http://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/for-florida-gators-brandon-spikes-brother-is-behind-bars-but-never-far/959156 ....Spikes to me feels like a "good egg." A high character guy that is motivated to do what's in the best interest of those around him. I guess that it's just tough for me to make a leap from "he put something stupid on Twitter" to "he must be involved in that lifestyle." I think that the more likely scenario is that he doesn't trust the justice system. It strikes me that Spikes considers Hernandez to be innocent, and that is his opinion, and he has a right to it. We can argue how smart the opinion is, but if he is speaking up for a friend that he believes is innocent, that is not a "low-character" move. Quite the opposite, in my opinion.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Thanks for making sense of this... It strikes me that Spikes considers Hernandez to be innocent, and that is his opinion, and he has a right to it. We can argue how smart the opinion is, but if he is speaking up for a friend that he believes is innocent, that is not a "low-character" move. Quite the opposite, in my opinion. Well said
Thrivefourfive Posted April 17, 2015 Author Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Thanks for making sense of this... It strikes me that Spikes considers Hernandez to be innocent, and that is his opinion, and he has a right to it. We can argue how smart the opinion is, but if he is speaking up for a friend that he believes is innocent, that is not a "low-character" move. Quite the opposite, in my opinion. Since Spikes shows no signs of low charactor in his questioning of the validity of the justice system in his friend's 1st degree murder conviction and subsequent punishment of life without parole while said friend awaits more murder charges in the near future, how does his charactor rate with this comment? Edited April 17, 2015 by Thrivefourfive
Prickly Pete Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Well said ridiculous. To hang out with Hernandez was incredibly stupid. His behavior at Florida should have been enough for anyone that isn't a complete lunkhead, to figure out that he is not a good guy.
BarleyNY Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Thanks for making sense of this... It strikes me that Spikes considers Hernandez to be innocent, and that is his opinion, and he has a right to it. We can argue how smart the opinion is, but if he is speaking up for a friend that he believes is innocent, that is not a "low-character" move. Quite the opposite, in my opinion. I'm pretty sure that a person's opinions and judgements go a long way in demonstrating what kind of person they are and how smart/stupid they are. Spikes just put his out there for the world to see and he's getting judged on them. Harshly. And he brought that on himself. In short, if you don't want people to think you're an idiot then don't go around saying idiotic things.
ALF Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 This is the entire "Personal" section of Wikipedia for Brandon Spikes: As a child, Spikes was raised by his brother, Breyon Middlebrooks, while their mother, Sherry Allen, worked 12-hour days at a fiberglass plant. In 2003, Middlebrooks was found guilty of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison, the result of a drug deal in 2001. He writes to Spikes regularly and watches what games he can from his cell at Scotland Correctional Institute in Laurinburg, North Carolina. He is the younger cousin of former NFL linebacker Takeo Spikes.[19] Sheds some light on his opinion of Hernandez, no? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Spikes I agree, this helps explain his empathy
Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 ridiculous. To hang out with Hernandez was incredibly stupid. His behavior at Florida should have been enough for anyone that isn't a complete lunkhead, to figure out that he is not a good guy. Again, if you can show some evidence of Spikes involved in wrongdoings I am interested in hearing more. So far, the only issue associated with Spikes that I know of (besides for some late hits) is not checking what was in his ADHD medication. By most accounts it is the people from the "old neighborhood" that AH never left in the past: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/sports/football/aaron-hernandez-guilty-of-murder-shed-tackles-but-not-his-past.html?referrer= The most likely scenario is that Spikes tried to look out for Hernandez. Brandon Spikes saw what happened with his older brother and made a decision that he (Spikes) had to be different. I don't think that it is a leap to think that Spikes, learning from his brothers mistakes, shared those experiences with a teammate that was heading down a bad path. While going on Twitter was a bad idea it is in no way an indication of guilt. I guess that it is kind of bothering me that people are drawing that conclusion with ZERO evidence to support it. If you want to worry about Bills players (or 2014 players): Duke, Harvin, Dareus, Bryce Brown, Bradham, Kiko, Incognito and Alan Branch (off the top of my head) have all been arrested. If you want to connect dots, it is fair to deduce that these guys are capable of illegal activities. There is evidence to support it. There may be more guys but I don't feel like doing the research. Jumping to conclusions and accusations without any evidence to support it just doesn't feel right.
Agent 91 Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I'm pretty sure that a person's opinions and judgements go a long way in demonstrating what kind of person they are and how smart/stupid they are. Spikes just put his out there for the world to see and he's getting judged on them. Harshly. And he brought that on himself. In short, if you don't want people to think you're an idiot then don't go around saying idiotic things. Part of what makes Brandon Spikes Brandon Spikes is that he couldn't care less what we think. He is a real chill dude. Very friendly. And it goes passed the whole Aaron Hernandez thing I would bet. Not trying to make this a race thing. But how many people have been KILLED ON VIDEO PLAYED ON NATIONAL T.V. and every one of those cops have been acquitted. ALL OF THEM. That is the allusion I got from this tweet. The justice system is screwed up. He just happens to ne basing it around Aaron. Sometimes like people said.... its now what was said. Its how it make you feel.
BarleyNY Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Part of what makes Brandon Spikes Brandon Spikes is that he couldn't care less what we think. He is a real chill dude. Very friendly. And it goes passed the whole Aaron Hernandez thing I would bet. Not trying to make this a race thing. But how many people have been KILLED ON VIDEO PLAYED ON NATIONAL T.V. and every one of those cops have been acquitted. ALL OF THEM. That is the allusion I got from this tweet. The justice system is screwed up. He just happens to ne basing it around Aaron. Sometimes like people said.... its now what was said. Its how it make you feel. I'm going to go ahead and disagree with the whole "Some white cop got away with murdering a black kid so Hernandez should be able to get away with it too." line of thought. There might not be a dumber arguement. Our system sucks, but it got this one right. Spikes' comment was clearly directed at Hernandez's guilty verdict. I must have missed his social commentary on the various other police and legal tragedies of our time. Spikes is, at best, an idiot and maybe much worse. The whole " couldn't care less what people think" attitude should come in real handy in the near future.
Thrivefourfive Posted April 17, 2015 Author Posted April 17, 2015 I've got sympathy for Spikes losing his brother, in anyway that that went down. But we tolerate too many people saying and doing too many stupid things in public. It's becoming common place in the country, and it sucks for rational people who see it for what it is, and aren't blinded by "everybody gets a trophy."
Beef Jerky Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I've got sympathy for Spikes losing his brother, in anyway that that went down. But we tolerate too many people saying and doing too many stupid things in public. It's becoming common place in the country, and it sucks for rational people who see it for what it is, and aren't blinded by "everybody gets a trophy." You are supposed to ignore the stupid comments... Problem is you people don't seems to do that anymore. Like you want to complain about them or are waiting for an opportunity.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) You are supposed to ignore the stupid comments... Problem is you people don't seems to do that anymore. Like you want to complain about them or are waiting for an opportunity.It is kind of the natural "glass half empty", "world is out to get us", "team is moving to Toronto" approach that left Buffalo spinning its wheels for 50 years. Too many people expect the worst and will do so until proven otherwise. There is absolute nothing to suggest Spikes is trouble yet about half of the people here jumped to that conclusion. There is even a post earlier about "if Spikes ends up in trouble...." What is there that suggests that he is more likely to be in trouble than Colton Schmidt? If he had been in trouble before it is okay to take the buyer beware approach but it isn't fair at all in this instance. He has made some stupid comments (especially the slave comment). From a PR standpoint he leaves a lot to be desired. As a person though, by all accounts he is a good teammate, leader, and community guy. He should be given the benefit of the doubt on that until proven (or even suspected) of wrongdoings. Edited April 17, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
Prickly Pete Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Again, if you can show some evidence of Spikes involved in wrongdoings I am interested in hearing more. So far, the only issue associated with Spikes that I know of (besides for some late hits) is not checking what was in his ADHD medication. By most accounts it is the people from the "old neighborhood" that AH never left in the past: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/sports/football/aaron-hernandez-guilty-of-murder-shed-tackles-but-not-his-past.html?referrer= The most likely scenario is that Spikes tried to look out for Hernandez. Brandon Spikes saw what happened with his older brother and made a decision that he (Spikes) had to be different. I don't think that it is a leap to think that Spikes, learning from his brothers mistakes, shared those experiences with a teammate that was heading down a bad path. While going on Twitter was a bad idea it is in no way an indication of guilt. I guess that it is kind of bothering me that people are drawing that conclusion with ZERO evidence to support it. If you want to worry about Bills players (or 2014 players): Duke, Harvin, Dareus, Bryce Brown, Bradham, Kiko, Incognito and Alan Branch (off the top of my head) have all been arrested. If you want to connect dots, it is fair to deduce that these guys are capable of illegal activities. There is evidence to support it. There may be more guys but I don't feel like doing the research. Jumping to conclusions and accusations without any evidence to support it just doesn't feel right. I haven't called for his arrest, or accused him of committing a crime...no need to supply evidence. I'm accusing him of being an idiot, and my evidence is his close friendship with a guy that just got convicted for murder, with 2 more murders to answer for, and a long history of being a violent douchebag. That might not be enough for you to consider Spikes a risk, but it's enough for me. You can give him the benefit of the doubt all you like, but I wonder, if he were still a Patriot, would you have the same opinion?...Doubt it. I don't automatically condemn players just for being arrested, and couldn't care less about the crimes that most of those players have been arrested for. But if I found out they chose to hang around people with the kind of track record that Hernandez had, I wouldn't want to cheer for them either. Edited April 17, 2015 by HoF Watkins
Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I haven't called for his arrest, or accused him of committing a crime...no need to supply evidence. I'm accusing him of being an idiot, and my evidence is his close friendship with a guy that just got convicted for murder, with 2 more murders to answer for, and a long history of being a violent douchebag. That might not be enough for you to consider Spikes a risk, but it's enough for me. You can give him the benefit of the doubt all you like, but I wonder, if he were still a Patriot, would you have the same opinion?...Doubt it. I don't automatically condemn players just for being arrested, and couldn't care less about the crimes that most of those players have been arrested for. But if I found out they chose to hang around people with the kind of track record that Hernandez had, I wouldn't want to cheer for them either. You must have more insight into their friendship than I have. I really do not have any knowledge of who AH spent his free time with. I have not heard of Brandon Spikes being in any of those environments with AH. The only people that seem to be there with him are his Bristol guys. The Pouncey twins have had some questionable interactions (the hat, their assault accusations). I know that BS was supposed to be a witness (don't know if he was) but that would be natural for a guy that has known him for 10 years. It has nothing to do with where the guy played. I do not blame any of the Pats guys that supported their former teammate. AH is a terrible, terrible person but that doesn't mean that people are terrible people by association. Spikes is really close with Hughes and Mario. Are Hughes and Mario bad people because they are friends with a guy that had a relationship with Hernandez? Where does the line come in? Which of these people gave acceptable responses and which are probably criminals: http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/04/15/aaron-hernandez-guilty-verdict-reaction-twitter It is just a little weird that you don't even need the suggestion that he did anything wrong to assume that he did (or anyone for that matter). If he were with Hernandez earlier that night connecting the dots would make some sense.
Rocky Landing Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I've got sympathy for Spikes losing his brother, in anyway that that went down. But we tolerate too many people saying and doing too many stupid things in public. It's becoming common place in the country, and it sucks for rational people who see it for what it is, and aren't blinded by "everybody gets a trophy." I see a weird irony in your post. Implicit in your "everybody gets a trophy" comment (if I am reading it correctly) is that there is a political correctness that pushes us to be tolerant of "too many people saying and doing too many stupid things in public." But, what are you asking of Spikes? That he be more politically correct in his tweets? When I was Spikes age, I did, and said many, many stupid things. But, back then, we didn't have the social media culture that allows a moment's indiscretion to be repeated (or retweeted, as the case may be) to a degree that was hitherto not even remotely possible. I wouldn't necessarily use the word "tolerant," but I think I am certainly far less fazed these days by thoughtless comments. That includes Spike's "four years a slave" comment, which I saw as a fairly innocuous reference to a movie that was out at the time.
FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I see a weird irony in your post. Implicit in your "everybody gets a trophy" comment (if I am reading it correctly) is that there is a political correctness that pushes us to be tolerant of "too many people saying and doing too many stupid things in public." But, what are you asking of Spikes? That he be more politically correct in his tweets? When I was Spikes age, I did, and said many, many stupid things. But, back then, we didn't have the social media culture that allows a moment's indiscretion to be repeated (or retweeted, as the case may be) to a degree that was hitherto not even remotely possible. I wouldn't necessarily use the word "tolerant," but I think I am certainly far less fazed these days by thoughtless comments. That includes Spike's "four years a slave" comment, which I saw as a fairly innocuous reference to a movie that was out at the time. It was a reference to a movie about slaves, though.
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