FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 My point was about how the 'fit' between coaching staff and QB can be essential in a qb's growth. Wilson and Pete Carroll seem to be a perfect fit. Positive, upbeat, rah-rah guys. R. Wilson needed that big time. I think EJ could benefit from that. I don't think a guy like A. Luck needs that or would of benefited from it. B. Arians was a great fit for Luck his rookie year, positive cerebral type of coach. I see EJ as benefiting from being around a more lose guy like Rex while having a coach like Roman there to play to his strength's. Harbaugh was a rah rah guy and Luck did well with him in college. I think this is totally revisionist. Just because it worked, somehow they fit. I don't see it. Does anyone even know Wilson's personality? All I know is that he's a very religious guy, who has acted like a spokesperson for the NFL since day one. LOL The Bills Detractors Analysis Department? c'mon man don't let facts muddy the waters ------------- you have to love the meme (or not) that it is a passing league. Since when has the Seattle Seahawks who were back to back SB contenders been a passing team???? You missed the point.
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Harbaugh was a rah rah guy and Luck did well with him in college. I think this is totally revisionist. Just because it worked, somehow they fit. I don't see it. Does anyone even know Wilson's personality? All I know is that he's a very religious guy, who has acted like a spokesperson for the NFL since day one. You missed the point. unrelated but is Harbaugh actually a ra ra guy? I just listened to his presser on the Big 10 spring football teleconference and he sounded like he was falling asleep while talking. Wow, Brutal. Edited April 16, 2015 by YoloinOhio
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) unrelated but is Harbaugh actually a ra ra guy? I just listened to his presser on the Big 10 spring football teleconference and he sounded like he was falling asleep while talking. Wow, Brutal. Off the field he may be different, but I always assumed he was one of those coaches who would jog backwards with the team when running laps. Edited April 16, 2015 by FireChan
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Does anyone even know Wilson's personality? All I know is that he's a very religious guy, who has acted like a spokesperson for the NFL since day one. You missed the point. so did you --- on a number of occasions oh King of obfuscation. Edited April 16, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 so did you --- on a number of occasions oh King of obfuscation. What was yours?
1billsfan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 My point was about how the 'fit' between coaching staff and QB can be essential in a qb's growth. Wilson and Pete Carroll seem to be a perfect fit. Positive, upbeat, rah-rah guys. R. Wilson needed that big time. I think EJ could benefit from that. I don't think a guy like A. Luck needs that or would of benefited from it. B. Arians was a great fit for Luck his rookie year, positive cerebral type of coach. I see EJ as benefiting from being around a more lose guy like Rex while having a coach like Roman there to play to his strength's. The funny thing about EJ is that he seems like a much more "buttoned up" kind of guy than "loose". Yet, you go look at his college highlights videos and he kind of had an "off the cuff", unpredictable style that, while it didn't look either smooth or pretty, those big highlight plays got a lot of yardage and the job done. I think that Roman and Rex will try to bring back THAT EJ. They will give him the opportunity to throw the ball deep down the field, while also throwing a good amount of quick passes to Watkins and Harvin. All the while he'll have that green light to tuck it and run when there's a big green open field in front of him. Play "EJ Manuel" style of football, not the "Alex Smith" conservative style that was being forced on him by Marrone. If he fails, at least he failed doing what he does best and not fail trying to play in a style not suited for him. That was a recipe for sure failure.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Harbaugh was a rah rah guy and Luck did well with him in college. I think this is totally revisionist. Just because it worked, somehow they fit. I don't see it. Does anyone even know Wilson's personality? All I know is that he's a very religious guy, who has acted like a spokesperson for the NFL since day one. You missed the point. First- i see Harbaugh as a tough coach who is demanding and also a brilliant Offensive mind. He is not a rah rah guy. yes he gets animated on the sideline, but he is deliberate in his calls and knows how to coach a QB. Second- i was talking about the pro's.
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 First- i see Harbaugh as a tough coach who is demanding and also a brilliant Offensive mind. He is not a rah rah guy. yes he gets animated on the sideline, but he is deliberate in his calls and knows how to coach a QB. Second- i was talking about the pro's. So you don't think Wilson would've been as successful with Arians instead of Carrol? Same question with Luck/Carrol. Like I said, I don't know how much substance is here. Why did Wilson "need" Carrol? Or Luck "need" Arians?
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) So you don't think Wilson would've been as successful with Arians instead of Carrol? Same question with Luck/Carrol. Like I said, I don't know how much substance is here. Why did Wilson "need" Carrol? Or Luck "need" Arians? I think those two pairings maximized potential for the development of the player. Luck and Carrol would be alright, but i think what he learned from Arians was more beneficial to him. I also think Wilson with Carrol is a better fit. Conversely i feel that Marrone's style was not great for EJ. Edited April 16, 2015 by atlbillsfan1975
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I think those two pairings maximized potential for the development of the player. Luck and Carrol would be alright, but i think what he learned from Arians was more beneficial to him. I also think Wilson with Carrol is a better fit. Conversely i feel that Marrone's style was not great for EJ. But how?
snamsnoops Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 LOL The Bills Detractors Analysis Department? c'mon man don't let facts muddy the waters ------------- you have to love the meme (or not) that it is a passing league. Since when has the Seattle Seahawks who were back to back SB contenders been a passing team???? The last few seconds of the Superbowl!.
3rdand12 Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) A couple of additional comments on this....... - I get visions of what the poster is talking about (not about to call him a liar it IS possible receivers were acting this way) however - This is where a positional coach (and OC) hold a receivers meeting and tell these wide receivers to STFU and do their jobs....realize that they have a young quarterback who is learning his way......show those receivers how EJ didnt have time to throw a lot AND that we were not effectively running the ball to process play action....and act like professionals. YOU ARE GROOMING A YOUNG FIRS ROUND QB......there are gonna be bumps in the road. - It is interesting in EJ's comments after he was benched where he talked about watching a veteran (Orton) work in the huddle.....does anyone else think that if a WR starting pulling this gas that Orton wouldnt tell them straight out in the huddle to STFU and do your job? That is what being a leader is all about.....control of the huddle......maybe just MAYBE EJ was being too nice or didnt feel he had the tenure to tell wide receivers I will throw it to you when I am god damn good and ready like someone like Orton would? This is what I was talking about with EJ needing that redshirt first year and watch a vet qb and how he handles his business....EJ Manuel NEEDED that....... strong post. thats the main difference with Orton. and it was reflected in player comments at the time. on the coaches IMO. i expect none of that crap this year from the team in regard to EJ. and hell maybe they were throwing the hands up in general frustration. I thought back then it was against EJ but hindsight is a funny thing Edited April 17, 2015 by 3rdand12
Screwball Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Say what you will, and I'm a big EJ and Sammy supporter - but I do believe the WR's gave up on EJ last year. Here's a little proof. From his own mouth here is Sammy in Detroit in Orton's first game at QB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkX2yl3xoKU Skip to :25. Sammy - "Hey, you got to arrive on those things now" Chandler - "What" Sammy - (points to route) "You got to run out on them now... he is throwing" I'm not sure what they were doing while EJ was under centre, but clearly Sammy was noticing a change in the QB. Edited April 17, 2015 by Screwball
Deranged Rhino Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Say what you will, and I'm a big EJ and Sammy supporter - but I do believe the WR's gave up on EJ last year. Here's a little proof. From his own mouth here is Sammy in Detroit in Orton's first game at QB. Skip to :25. Sammy - "Hey, you got to arrive on those things now" Chandler - "What" Sammy - (points to route) "You got to run out on them now... he is throwing" I'm not sure what they were doing while EJ was under centre, but clearly Sammy was noticing a change in the QB. Thanks for posting that, I somehow missed that wired for sound segment. There was a lot of visual evidence that the WRs (Woods especially) were frustrated with EJ, and you might be completely right in the way you're interpreting that exchange, but it's tough to be certain. Guys know when they're mic'd up and usually are pretty guarded about saying controversial stuff -- and that would be pretty controversial of Sammy to say considering every reporter at that time was looking for that kind of confirmation on the QB situation. I took that exchange to be more pre-game-getting-hyped kinda chatter, but who knows. Either way I think you're right that the WRs were not happy with the last three games of the EJ regime. But I don't think that means their opinion can't change, that's up to EJ though.
eball Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Say what you will, and I'm a big EJ and Sammy supporter - but I do believe the WR's gave up on EJ last year. Here's a little proof. From his own mouth here is Sammy in Detroit in Orton's first game at QB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkX2yl3xoKU Skip to :25. Sammy - "Hey, you got to arrive on those things now" Chandler - "What" Sammy - (points to route) "You got to run out on them now... he is throwing" I'm not sure what they were doing while EJ was under centre, but clearly Sammy was noticing a change in the QB. My favorite part of that exchange is that a rookie WR in his 5th game is telling a 6-7 year veteran what to do. Anyway, we all know EJ wasn't playing well in weeks 3 and 4 last year. A lifetime has passed since then, and I'm excited to see what happens in camp.
What a Tuel Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Say what you will, and I'm a big EJ and Sammy supporter - but I do believe the WR's gave up on EJ last year. Here's a little proof. From his own mouth here is Sammy in Detroit in Orton's first game at QB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkX2yl3xoKU Skip to :25. Sammy - "Hey, you got to arrive on those things now" Chandler - "What" Sammy - (points to route) "You got to run out on them now... he is throwing" I'm not sure what they were doing while EJ was under centre, but clearly Sammy was noticing a change in the QB. Although I don't doubt that Manuels performance made the WR's feel a little helpless, it is hard to tell what Watkins meant by that without any context. He might've been just been telling Chandler he needs to step it up on his routes because damn " Orton is throwing it". (added damn for tone). Or he could've been making a comparison between the two qbs "damn this guy can throw!". Hard to determine, I'm leaning towards Orton not connecting with Chandler on a route, and Watkins throwing his 2 cents in. Either way, I don't think the WR's gave up on EJ, frustrated maybe, but they didn't give up. If they did give up on Manuel, and now Watkins is making comments that EJ is "throwing better", and he is a "different guy" then that is a large vote of confidence from Watkins that EJ has improved since then.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) The last few seconds of the Superbowl!. it should have been back to back SB participants, one win and 2 yards from a second straight win but as usual the fact I was pointing out was ignored. Seattle is not a passing team WRT the meme it is a passing league. and King of obfuscation says I missed the point. if only he could stay on topic and not divert to a dead end Edited April 17, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Doc Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 Although I don't doubt that Manuels performance made the WR's feel a little helpless, it is hard to tell what Watkins meant by that without any context. He might've been just been telling Chandler he needs to step it up on his routes because damn " Orton is throwing it". (added damn for tone). Or he could've been making a comparison between the two qbs "damn this guy can throw!". Hard to determine, I'm leaning towards Orton not connecting with Chandler on a route, and Watkins throwing his 2 cents in. Either way, I don't think the WR's gave up on EJ, frustrated maybe, but they didn't give up. If they did give up on Manuel, and now Watkins is making comments that EJ is "throwing better", and he is a "different guy" then that is a large vote of confidence from Watkins that EJ has improved since then. I'm not sure what the context is either, but if Sammy is saying that they need to run better routes because otherwise Orton will yell at them, then it's dismaying, much in the way Amaro saying it was Rex's fault for players showing up late.
FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 it should have been back to back SB participants, one win and 2 yards from a second straight win but as usual the fact I was pointing out was ignored. Seattle is not a passing team WRT the meme it is a passing league. and King of obfuscation says I missed the point. if only he could stay on topic and not divert to a dead end It is a passing league.
Talley56 Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I sort of recall hearing similar things in past offseasons about Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitzpatrick "he's throwing the ball better" "looks more poised", etc.
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