John from Riverside Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 So all we need is a historic D. It is so much more complex then that...... The O needs to step up when the D is having a bad day The D needs to step up when the O is having a bad day Players need to make plays....simple as that....not fumble caught balls away after big plays for instance (something that was NOT EJ Manuel's fault)
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) It is so much more complex then that...... The O needs to step up when the D is having a bad day The D needs to step up when the O is having a bad day Players need to make plays....simple as that....not fumble caught balls away after big plays for instance (something that was NOT EJ Manuel's fault) Remember when everyone gifted the KC game to Orton's record because we had a terrible end zone fumble and a terrible PR fumble (something that was NOT Kye Orton's fault)? I don't. It's all terribly biased. "EJ just needs Seattle's defense." Okay. And you're right, both sides need to answer the call for the other. But a good offense is only going to be able to answer the call with a good QB. Everything else, as usual, is just noise. Edited April 16, 2015 by FireChan
John from Riverside Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Remember when everyone gifted the KC game to Orton's record because we had a terrible end zone fumble and a terrible PR fumble (something that was NOT Kye Orton's fault)? I don't. It's all terribly biased. "EJ just needs Seattle's defense." Okay. And you're right, both sides need to answer the call for the other. But a good offense is only going to be able to answer the call with a good QB. Everything else, as usual, is just noise. How many teams are there in the league? How many teams actually have franchise QBs? How many teams make the playoffs? I really dont think this is true Chan.....I think what you need is a CONSISTANT QB who is backed up by a solid run game
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 How many teams are there in the league? How many teams actually have franchise QBs? How many teams make the playoffs? I really dont think this is true Chan.....I think what you need is a CONSISTANT QB who is backed up by a solid run game It's my contention that consistent QB's ARE good QB's, John.
John from Riverside Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 It's my contention that consistent QB's ARE good QB's, John. In that we are in agreement.... I dont feel like we need a QB that has to take a team on their shoulders down by 5 with 2 minutes left and win the game on his arm every week......just make the handful of plays needed at specific points of the game to keep the offense on the field their offense off the field....and score points at the end. Dont care how its down......be it a pass completion.....a running first down.....etc etc....just make the key play This of course does mean that a reciever on the other end of the pass has to actually catch it....not fumble it....not pop it up in the air.....and that the OL doesnt allow immediate pressure on the qB
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 In that we are in agreement.... I dont feel like we need a QB that has to take a team on their shoulders down by 5 with 2 minutes left and win the game on his arm every week......just make the handful of plays needed at specific points of the game to keep the offense on the field their offense off the field....and score points at the end. Dont care how its down......be it a pass completion.....a running first down.....etc etc....just make the key play This of course does mean that a reciever on the other end of the pass has to actually catch it....not fumble it....not pop it up in the air.....and that the OL doesnt allow immediate pressure on the qB It's still a passing league, and the best offenses, the offenses who can, most consistently and often "pick it up when the defense is down," are teams with good QB's. Name some offenses in the last five or ten years that had an offense good enough to help a poor defensive showing without a good QB. Maybe AP's Vikings?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 So all we need is a historic D. And a Probowl running back and Percy Harvin.
John from Riverside Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 And a Probowl running back and Percy Harvin. And a once a generation 2nd year wide receiver named Watkins oh And a do it all swiss army knife top 100 player with the last name Clay
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 It's still a passing league, and the best offenses, the offenses who can, most consistently and often "pick it up when the defense is down," are teams with good QB's. Name some offenses in the last five or ten years that had an offense good enough to help a poor defensive showing without a good QB. Maybe AP's Vikings? Philly comes to mind. Texans, Browns and Rams have been able to on occasion.... But good qb play needs to be the goal.
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Philly comes to mind. Texans, Browns and Rams have been able to on occasion.... But good qb play needs to be the goal. Foles was a good QB. Schaub was good for a bit. I wouldn't consider the Browns and Rams to qualify.
1billsfan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Foles was a good QB. Schaub was good for a bit. I wouldn't consider the Browns and Rams to qualify. I'm not sure what this argument is about. Are you guys arguing whether the Bills could get in the playoffs without having consistently good QB play? I do know that the 2007 Eli Manning didn't have a good year and yet was able to get hot in the playoffs that year and win the Superbowl. One of Roethlisberger's years they won the Superbowl his regular season wasn't a good one. I think the NFL is changing to the point where all you'll need is to get into the playoffs and for your "average" QB to get hot for a few games. Most of great current NFL QBs are old on their way out. The only two left will be Luck and Rodgers. So in that landscape if Manuel becomes even an average NFL starter, I think he could prove himself to be and poor man's Eli Manning or Joe Flacco, which in a few years may actually be good enough to win the whole darn thing.
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I'm not sure what this argument is about. Are you guys arguing whether the Bills could get in the playoffs without having consistently good QB play? I do know that the 2007 Eli Manning didn't have a good year and yet was able to get hot in the playoffs that year and win the Superbowl. One of Roethlisberger's years they won the Superbowl his regular season wasn't a good one. I think the NFL is changing to the point where all you'll need is to get into the playoffs and for your "average" QB to get hot for a few games. Most of great current NFL QBs are old on their way out. The only two left will be Luck and Rodgers. So in that landscape if Manuel becomes even an average NFL starter, I think he could prove himself to be and poor man's Eli Manning or Joe Flacco, which in a few years may actually be good enough to win the whole darn thing. You can definitely fluke into the playoffs, but we're speaking more in generalities.
pi2000 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 This is like Lee Evans and JP Losman all over again.
DC Tom Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Odell Beckham Jr. would have believed in EJ 110%, and we'd still have this year's first round pick. Watkins sucks.
Doc Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 And if EJ threw his hands up in disgust after every mistake the wide receivers, and his offensive teammates in general, made last year, how would that have looked? Wide receivers aren't the only ones to potentially get killed on any given play.
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 And if EJ threw his hands up in disgust after every mistake the wide receivers, and his offensive teammates in general, made last year, how would that have looked? Wide receivers aren't the only ones to potentially get killed on any given play. There are different responsibilities for being the guy.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) It was but TBD's football analysis department easily saw that it was the case. LOL The Bills Detractors Analysis Department? Good question. Also, do you think Seattle's defense would have blow 3 4th quarter leads like the Bills defense did EJ's rookie year? Would Seattle ever lose a game where the team scored 31 points like the Bills did to Atl? c'mon man don't let facts muddy the waters ------------- you have to love the meme (or not) that it is a passing league. Since when has the Seattle Seahawks who were back to back SB contenders been a passing team???? Edited April 16, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Doc Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 There are different responsibilities for being the guy. Be that as it may, it doesn't make it any better/more excusable when a non-QB position does it.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 So all we need is a historic D. My point was about how the 'fit' between coaching staff and QB can be essential in a qb's growth. Wilson and Pete Carroll seem to be a perfect fit. Positive, upbeat, rah-rah guys. R. Wilson needed that big time. I think EJ could benefit from that. I don't think a guy like A. Luck needs that or would of benefited from it. B. Arians was a great fit for Luck his rookie year, positive cerebral type of coach. I see EJ as benefiting from being around a more lose guy like Rex while having a coach like Roman there to play to his strength's.
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