BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 They had that game in hand...and the O flopped? Are you saying the D had the game in hand? That's crazy. Your planet is interesting, however. Good for unintentional comedy. Few were harsher critics of Marrone than me---from the moment the Bills GM made that poor choice. Orton was brought in because Whaley felt that if EJ crapped the bed the 2014 as starter, the new owner would clean house in the FO. Orton wasn't great, but he got us to 9-7 and no one on the Bills thought EJ would have done that--this much should be very clear to you and indisputable. Yes WEO the Bronco's game was one the Bills could have won. Orton got the Bills to a 7-5* (*Pats give away week 17) record which could have been better had he been the much better choice. Stop pretending Orton was a much better QB when reality shows differently. So, here we are, waiting another season to see if EJ is the answer. Had Moron let EJ play we would have a better idea if EJ can be the QB or if he is the failure you presume he is. Whaley brings in the players, the HC decides who plays in the games, so please do not confuse the two again in the future.
BackInDaDay Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 i remember DeBerg as a solid player with pretty slick ball skills.. jeez... i hope no one misreads that. can't see the harm in EJ seeking out advice from wherever he can get it. hell, he can go to Tibet and throw the ball around with the Dahli Lama.. but as old Bill Henley would say.. EJ's "the master of his fate, and the captain of his soul". perhaps building an empire with Roman is his destiny
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Yes WEO the Bronco's game was one the Bills could have won. Orton got the Bills to a 7-5* (*Pats give away week 17) record which could have been better had he been the much better choice. Stop pretending Orton was a much better QB when reality shows differently. So, here we are, waiting another season to see if EJ is the answer. Had Moron let EJ play we would have a better idea if EJ can be the QB or if he is the failure you presume he is. Whaley brings in the players, the HC decides who plays in the games, so please do not confuse the two again in the future. While this is true, it also might have resulted in Marrone/Whaley's dismissal. Whaley as a GM is responsible for everything the coach he hires, does.
Beerball Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 While this is true, it also might have resulted in Marrone/Whaley's dismissal. Whaley as a GM is responsible for everything the coach he hires, does. great idea, fire everybody & start over
FireChan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 great idea, fire everybody & start over Nah, please don't.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I didn't know that the GM Whaley was at every game and in constant communications with the HC telling him what to do.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 While this is true, it also might have resulted in Marrone/Whaley's dismissal. Whaley as a GM is responsible for everything the coach he hires, does. Marrone was hired as the Buffalo Bills HC on 7 January 2013 Whaley was promoted to Bills General Manager on 16 May 2013 Nix was still GM when Marrone was hired. While I'm sure Whaley had input into the decision, Whaley did not, in fact, hire Marrone. Not a fan of Marrone, but I would have like to keep Orton to see what he could have done with a full training camp. He wouldn't be the next Kelly, but at least we knew what we had. It wasn't our choice whether or not to keep Orton. The man retired. There were no signs at the time that it was a forced out.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Marrone was hired as the Buffalo Bills HC on 7 January 2013 Whaley was promoted to Bills General Manager on 16 May 2013 Nix was still GM when Marrone was hired. While I'm sure Whaley had input into the decision, Whaley did not, in fact, hire Marrone. It wasn't our choice whether or not to keep Orton. The man retired. There were no signs at the time that it was a forced out. I'm glad he made things easy. If they brought him back after how gutless he proved to be this season, I would struggle to watch them this year.
Bill from NYC Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Of course it's a poster's right to like whoever they want to Bill. Of course, it's the double standards that get me. Like giving a coked up Frankenstein like Ryan Mallet 4 years to develop and only giving EJ 14 games. But even though Mallet has a qb rating that is almost 20 points than EJ, I definitely see how he has more upside. Hopefully, you will be as right about EJ as you were about Aaron Murray in the draft and Gilmore (one of the best young cbs in the NFL). bottom line is we all deserve the playoffs. Go Bills. You never seem to tire of using stats to prove just how good EJ is. The eyes tell a different story. That said, does he have a better chance at being good than Mallett? I suppose. EJ's character and work ethic are not matters of concern, he seems like a great kid. The only edge I would give to Mallett is that he has an arm that only comes along once in a long while. I liken his arm to that of Bledsoe. Is arm strength enough in this league? Absolutely not. And my friend, I hope that you will be much more correct in your assessment of EJ than you were in your never ending praise of Dick Jauron as a coach. Didn't he go from head coach to defensive backs coach? Reminds me of you know who, no?
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 You never seem to tire of using stats to prove just how good EJ is. The eyes tell a different story. That said, does he have a better chance at being good than Mallett? I suppose. EJ's character and work ethic are not matters of concern, he seems like a great kid. The only edge I would give to Mallett is that he has an arm that only comes along once in a long while. I liken his arm to that of Bledsoe. Is arm strength enough in this league? Absolutely not. And my friend, I hope that you will be much more correct in your assessment of EJ than you were in your never ending praise of Dick Jauron as a coach. Didn't he go from head coach to defensive backs coach? Reminds me of you know who, no? Haha. The eye test never fails! Screw stats. Levitre is the best G in football because of your eye test (even though he's never be to a pro bowl or been voted all pro)! Eye test! And no matter how many times you and others try to make up my Jauron point, it remains the same. Prior to inheriting Tom Brady thanks to Mo Lewis, Jauron had a better winning % than Bill Belichick. Amazing how someone becomes a great coach when they luck into one of the greatest QBs ever. Two bold predictions Bill 1) If EJ turns into a good QB, Rex Ryan will be a really good coach here! 2) Dick Jauron got a 2nd coaching job (and a coach of the year awar too). Marrone will never get another NFL coaching job. And I'm open to another signature bet my friend. How about a better season this year - Mallet or Manuel? Game?
Bill from NYC Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Haha. The eye test never fails! Screw stats. Levitre is the best G in football because of your eye test (even though he's never be to a pro bowl or been voted all pro)! Eye test! Why misquote me? I thought we were having a serious conversation. I DID say that for a period of time, Levitre was the best blocker on this team. YOU recently said that Glenn went downhill due to playing next to poor guards. How did he look next to AL? I don't want to bet against EJ. I want to cheer for him, if in fact he shows enough in camp to see the field. Optimism is a wonderful thing but not everybody is mandated to be this way, nor to agree with you (or of course me) on every topic. PS: Jauron's wonderful record was due to 1 season with the Bears. Did he ever have another winning season after that? He was a flat out disaster in Buffalo. Along with Levy as GM, they set back this franchise many, many years. You can try but you can't clean this up with nonsensical, self serving stats. Oh, and do be well. The dialogue is always a pleasure. I mean this. Edited April 16, 2015 by Bill from NYC
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Yes WEO the Bronco's game was one the Bills could have won. Orton got the Bills to a 7-5* (*Pats give away week 17) record which could have been better had he been the much better choice. Stop pretending Orton was a much better QB when reality shows differently. So, here we are, waiting another season to see if EJ is the answer. Had Moron let EJ play we would have a better idea if EJ can be the QB or if he is the failure you presume he is. Whaley brings in the players, the HC decides who plays in the games, so please do not confuse the two again in the future. I haven't labeled EJ a failure--in fact weeks ago I assumed he would be the starter on week 1. Whaley brought in Orton to hedge agaisnt a disaster with EJ which he likely felt might cost everyone in the office their jobs. After 4 games, the FO's disaster plan was put into action. Pretty simple.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 And no matter how many times you and others try to make up my Jauron point, it remains the same. Prior to inheriting Tom Brady thanks to Mo Lewis, Jauron had a better winning % than Bill Belichick. Amazing how someone becomes a great coach when they luck into one of the greatest QBs ever. I don't want to butt into a personal back-and-forth Somehow Jauron was able to get 7-9 records with a roster which, after he left, had general talk about a bare talent cupboard and Wilson saying "with a hearty laugh" "our drafts have been absolutely terrible". He came on the heels of the Donahue disaster and with Marv Levy then Russ Brandon as his GMs - two guys who had no experience at that side of the job and did not seem able to build the quality scouting organization needed to acquire quality talent. He dealt with an increasingly change-adverse Russ Willson. I'm not saying Jauron was a good HC - I think a HC does need to show confidence and enthusiasm and to have some charisma to build rappore in the locker room, and of course in a healthy HC-GM relationship the HC has a lot of input into what profile of player is sought and even who gets drafted. But it does seem to be a fact that he did more with less talent than three coaches who followed after him. We drafted Dareus, we signed Mario Williams, Byrd and Kyle Williams emerged as premier players, and still Gailey and Marrone's 1st year couldn't even get to 7-10. The thought occasionally does cross my mind, that perhaps Jauron was under-rated as a coach, and to ask could he have done more with better talent?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I haven't labeled EJ a failure--in fact weeks ago I assumed he would be the starter on week 1. Whaley brought in Orton to hedge agaisnt a disaster with EJ which he likely felt might cost everyone in the office their jobs. After 4 games, the FO's disaster plan was put into action. Pretty simple. simple conjecture on your part. We fans here do not know the real reason why they "settled" on Orton. if you have inside information a link would be nice to read apologies amended or if he is the failure the detractors presume he is.
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 simple conjecture on your part. We fans here do not know the real reason why they "settled" on Orton. if you have inside information a link would be nice to read Because EJ wasn't getting the job done.
John from Riverside Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I haven't labeled EJ a failure--in fact weeks ago I assumed he would be the starter on week 1. Whaley brought in Orton to hedge agaisnt a disaster with EJ which he likely felt might cost everyone in the office their jobs. After 4 games, the FO's disaster plan was put into action. Pretty simple. Now see....I actually agree with WEO on this I was baffled by the EJ sit down so early given that the team had a winning record at the time.....yes he had a horrible game prior but EJ is a extremely YOUNG qb that needed that season before making a decision. but it wasnt about the grooming of a QB...this was about Marrone panicking and not wanting to get fired.....so he moved to the veteran. I STILL maintain that might have been the best thing he could have done for EJ Manuel - The danger was removed of ruining a young QB under a coaching staff that couldnt get a offensive line to play well - EJ never really got that NFL Redshirt year.....which I felt he really needed - In the end.....it DIDNT save Marrone's job. With a new coaching staff EJ now gets a clean slate......a viable average NFL QB to compete against.......and a chance to prove himself again. This might all still work out Because EJ wasn't getting the job done. Actually....the team had a winning record at the time EJ was sat down
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Now see....I actually agree with WEO on this I was baffled by the EJ sit down so early given that the team had a winning record at the time.....yes he had a horrible game prior but EJ is a extremely YOUNG qb that needed that season before making a decision. but it wasnt about the grooming of a QB...this was about Marrone panicking and not wanting to get fired.....so he moved to the veteran. I STILL maintain that might have been the best thing he could have done for EJ Manuel - The danger was removed of ruining a young QB under a coaching staff that couldnt get a offensive line to play well - EJ never really got that NFL Redshirt year.....which I felt he really needed - In the end.....it DIDNT save Marrone's job. With a new coaching staff EJ now gets a clean slate......a viable average NFL QB to compete against.......and a chance to prove himself again. This might all still work out Actually....the team had a winning record at the time EJ was sat down .500 isn't a winning record.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Whaley brought in Orton to hedge agaisnt a disaster with EJ which he likely felt might cost everyone in the office their jobs. After 4 games, the FO's disaster plan was put into action. Pretty simple. You do realize that signing a competent veteran backup QB is SOP for most teams, even with a Luck-quality starter entrenched? The real question is why we didn't have one or more in camp to start OTAs. The answer may be in this list of some FA QB from 2014. Many of them signed pretty quickly with other teams (Henne, McCown). Others were pretty chancy for injury or performance reasons (Freeman, Garrard, Vick, eventually Schaub). Marrone may also have had strong preferences (for example, for a WCO guy) which may have limited the selection they considered. It was pretty slim pickin's and rumor has it the Bills wanted Orton from the start, he just hung back and they couldn't close the deal until after pre-season. I think it's creative writing to make Orton into a "disaster hedge". Maybe, maybe not.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Because EJ wasn't getting the job done. in truth how many rookies did in their first 14 games? I am not saying EJ is a franchise QB, just that we don't know. Look at the shelf stocker at a grocery store who won a SB .500 isn't a winning record. so are you saying that 1 or 2 games above .500 makes all the difference?
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 in truth how many rookies did in their first 14 games? I am not saying EJ is a franchise QB, just that we don't know. Look at the shelf stocker at a grocery store who won a SB I'm not saying that either, but there is a reason that they pulled him, and he wasn't getting the job done, at the time the Pegula deal wasn't finished, so Doug/Doug had no idea what their job security was. so are you saying that 1 or 2 games above .500 makes all the difference? so are you saying that 1 or 2 games above .500 makes all the difference? They felt he had the best chance. Hindsight is 20/20. But at the time of the Texans game, Orton seemed like a more stable choice for them.
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