1billsfan Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Equally, you hoping EJ is something he is not. IMO Cassel is better than EJ and it's not close. FWIW I don't think Cassel is anything more than a placeholder average QB. Ask the WR corp right now who they would prefer as the QB, bet it's not EJ, especially after last years WR mutiny, that's telling IMO. Sorry just don't think Rex is going to roll with EJ as his starter. Sorry, but you're very wrong. Cassel threw 4 interceptions in his last 2nd to start against the Patriots. His QB rating was 39. How bad was that? EJ's rating vs the Texans in his last start was 59. Ya think Rex wants some of that Cassel 39 QB rating two games against the Patriots? I think that you're like a lot of posters here who think they're getting the Patriots version of Matt Cassel when that guy is long gone. His last good season was 2010 and it's now 2015. He was benched for Brady Quinn. This camp, Cassel is going to quickly prove he's not nearly as good as EJ Manuel. That's not saying that Manuel is a good QB, it's more how bad of a QB Matt Cassel is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 It's like Orton all over again. Cassel will not get us to the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Todd haley in 3 seasons as a head coach - 1 playoff appearance. The Bills the past 15 seasons - 0 playoff appearances. Has anyone here WATCHED Cassel play in the last 3-4 seasons as opposed to just looking at lineup cards? I have. He's not good. In his KC years, they were always a top running team. In his last year there, they were 5th in rushing attempts and yards. To be fair, he played well against the Eagles in the final game of the 2013 season, although the Eagles had clinched and the game was meaningless for their seeding: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312150min.htm Let's go, EJ. The Chiefs had two good years of running the ball well when he was there and two not good. They had one WR who was any good. They had one of four years with any TEs. No middle of the pack QB plays well with limited playmakers around him. NO QB is good (unless you are in the upper echelon) with only one passing option. There are a 100 bashing EJ and bashing Cassel threads. This one is about players around him. When he has had good players around him, like a few of them, which ALL game manager QBS need to succeed, he's played pretty good. When he hasn't had them, he hasn't played good. That is what this thread is about. I want EJ, too. I don't think Cassel is the answer. But the fact is, when he has been on a good team he has usually played well. When he hasn't been, he hasn't. He's on a good team and has never ever had close to these weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Todd haley in 3 seasons as a head coach - 1 playoff appearance. The Bills the past 15 seasons - 0 playoff appearances. Has anyone here WATCHED Cassel play in the last 3-4 seasons as opposed to just looking at lineup cards? I have. He's not good. In his KC years, they were always a top running team. In his last year there, they were 5th in rushing attempts and yards. 1) Yes, watched when with KC. Live in what's considered 2ndary market for KC so have chances. Not last 2 yrs with the Vikes. 2) Can't speak for KtD but I wouldn't say Cassel is good. He's a competent NFL QB who has had 2 good years. Yes, it would be the best outcome for EJ to beat him out fair and square, but we should be able to be OK if he doesn't. 3) Having watched and have friend who is rabid Chiefs fan, formed my opinion that Cassel, more than many of the "career journeyman QB", is really a system guy. Put him in the right system and he's competent. Put him in the wrong system, and he struggles Jamaal Charles was cream - any offense with a healthy Charles was gonna have a top running game, but that doesn't mean all offenses where he was running were equal. 2009 Todd Haley - improvised system after firing Chan Gailey. Fresh off Superbowl run as OC for Kurt Warner. Matt Cassel is no Kurt Warner 2010 Charlie Weis - ground n pound punctuated by deep balls. Suited Cassel well. Offensive play calling hurt the Chiefs at times when they got cute instead of running the obvious play (eg 3 and 1 - just move the chains dammit) 2011 Bill Muir - widely regarded as puppet for Haley playcalling (Chiefs had a mediocre run game that year as Charles was injured) 2012 Brian Daboll - over his head as an NFL OC IMO. Read this - doesn't it sound like Nate Hackett? Heads were scratched all over KC fandom when he was hired due to his stellar job with the Browns and Dolphins (I jest, I jest) and he's gone back to position coaching where he seems to be a solid guy. 4) in KC, Cassel struggled somewhat from Ryan Fitzpatrick syndrome. After his good year with the Pats, acquiring Cassel seemed like acquiring a guy who could be a Baby Brady, Magical Franchise Guy. When it was realized that he wasn't, in fact, All That and a Bag of Chips, reaction set in and he became Dog Poop, run him out of town on a rail. The reality is, Cassel is what he is - a capable NFL QB who should do OK in the right system. Here I am being a moderate again - I both agree and disagree he's a step below Fitz. Fitz is I think a better all around QB, a guy who can adapt to and perform reasonably in several different systems including with next to no OL. Cassel, I think, is a more capable passer, or was anyway, but he needs his system and he needs his time. Don't try to run a hurry up squirrel offense on him, don't expect him to function like Kurt Warner, and give him a decent line and a star RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 The Chiefs had two good years of running the ball well when he was there and two not good. They had one WR who was any good. They had one of four years with any TEs. No middle of the pack QB plays well with limited playmakers around him. NO QB is good (unless you are in the upper echelon) with only one passing option. There are a 100 bashing EJ and bashing Cassel threads. This one is about players around him. When he has had good players around him, like a few of them, which ALL game manager QBS need to succeed, he's played pretty good. When he hasn't had them, he hasn't played good. That is what this thread is about. I want EJ, too. I don't think Cassel is the answer. But the fact is, when he has been on a good team he has usually played well. When he hasn't been, he hasn't. He's on a good team and has never ever had close to these weapons. That's a fair point, but his limitations - which are many - will get you to 10-6/11-5 assuming the team around him is excellent and everything goes right. He's the ultimate play not to lose qb -- unlike good qbs, he simply can't win games on his own. Orton, who for all of his faults played to win most of his career, is a better QB, and I do think Manuel has more upside even though he has real potential to bust big time this year. Of course, I'd be thrilled with 11-5. i'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 2011 They had nobody. One player, Dwayne Bowe who was any good. No RB, Steve Breaston was their #2. No TE. How can you possibly say that was a good team around him? KtD, it is true that they lost Moeaki and Charles in 2011 but the "nobody" bit is not quite true. I don't have time to go point by point through their 2009 2010 2011 rosters, sorry, I invite you to look under the hood yourself though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 KtD, it is true that they lost Moeaki and Charles in 2011 but the "nobody" bit is not quite true. I don't have time to go point by point through their 2009 2010 2011 rosters, sorry, I invite you to look under the hood yourself though. I have. If you think Steve Breaston is good, then he had some good players. If you think Dexter McClusterfukk is good, then he had some good players. If you think Leonard Pope is good, then he was surrounded by good players. Baldwin was a huge flop. Moeaki had half of one good year not hurt. Bowe was the only good player besides Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Its been mentioned that Cassel might do well in a specific system. I was trying to get around that point. Does Roman and Kromer design for the pocket passer or do they want to ( as Rex mentioned) want to use the legs of EJ or TT. Not that the play calling is mutually exclusive , but surely its a different animal. I suppose Cassel can succeed as a game manager , similar to Ortons role ? The play makers we have give an upside to either QB. As long as the line can take care of business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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