More support for General Mattis

[VABills]

The following excerpt from http://www.bobparsons.com/

 

You'll find a link to the godaddy.com commercial as well. I personally like the General Gray story and have no doubt it meeting him several times that he said something along those lines or worse.

 

 

 

As you may know, Lieutenant General James N. Mattis, a highly decorated, career infantry officer, who is now in charge of better ways to train and equip Marines, recently made a statement that stuck into our country’s politically correct knickers.

 

The statement came while General Mattis was speaking during a panel discussion, hosted by the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association, a spokeswoman for the general said.

 

What General Mattis said.

Here’s what General Mattis said: "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

 

His comments were met with laughter and applause from the audience.

 

As a result of his statement (and I have to laugh about this) he is going to receive a counseling session from the Commandant of the Marine Corps. I can only imagine what’s going to be said during that session.

 

I don’t have a problem with the General's statement.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with the General's statement. Our Marines exist to fight our wars, and as such, we give them some very gritty tasks. So I would think we want Marines who are tough and aren’t afraid of combat. I’m fairly sure that General Mattis meets this profile.

 

Marines fight battles. They are not politicians.

If we expect our Marines -- those guys who we use to fight our battles -- to also be politically correct, I think we’ve arrived at the beginning of the end. Fortunately, most of the people I’ve talked with about the General’s comments, support what the man had to say, and are glad we have someone who wants to step up and fight a war the way a war needs to be fought.

 

Let's put the General's comments into context.

All of us know the General was not talking about randomly shooting friendly civilians. He was talking about shooting insurgents. Quite frankly, we couldn’t pick a better group (the insurgents) of people to shoot. Let's hope our troops shoot them all. In fact, that's exactly why we sent them there.

 

Thanks, General Mattis.

So thanks, General Mattis, for speaking your mind. You’ve got my support.

 

The Marine Corps I know and love.

This also reminds me of a story I heard recently about an old Commandant of the Marine Corps. I don’t know if it’s true or not. Quite frankly, I don’t care if it isn’t true. Why? Because the story typifies what I’ve come to know of the men (and women) that make up our Marine Corps.

 

General Al Gray's story.

Here’s the abridged version, which involved General Al Gray, a crusty old “field Marine.”

 

General Gray loved his Marines and often slipped into the chow hall wearing a faded, old field jacket, devoid of any rank insignia.

 

He would go through the chow line just like any Marine with the rank of "Private." That way, he received the same rations that the lowest enlisted man received. And woe to the Mess Officer if the food was found to be unfit in quality or quantity.

 

Upon becoming Commandant, General Gray was expected to do a great deal of "formal entertaining" -- which often meant fancy dinner parties while wearing his full, dress blue uniform.

 

(Now, the Commandant would rather have been in the field eating cold "C-rations" around a foxhole with a bunch of young, "hard charging" Marines; but he knew his duty, and as a Marine, he was determined to do it to the best of his ability.)

 

During these events, Marines in dress blues are posted at each exit and typically stand at "parade rest," or, at attention.

 

At one of these affairs, a very refined, blue haired lady picked up a tray of pastries and went around the room offering the confections to the guests. She also went up to one of the Marines posted on duty, who was standing at parade rest and asked, “Would you like a pastry young man?”

 

The young Marine snapped to "attention" and replied, "I don't eat that sh--, Ma'am." Just as quickly, he resumed the position of "parade rest." His gaze remained fixed on some distant point throughout the exchange.

 

The fancy lady was shocked. Her mouth dropped open. She could not believe what she had heard. So she stormed away immediately and found General Gray, who had a cigar clenched between his teeth and a glass full of liquor in his left hand. He was talking to a group of young Lieutenants.

 

The blue haired lady interrupted the Commandant and said, "General, I offered some pastry to that young man over there and do you know what he told me?"

 

General Gray took the cigar out of his mouth and said, "Well, no Ma'am, I don't."

 

The lady took in a deep breath and wagged her head in cadence with her words, pausing between each word for effect, "He said, I - don't - eat - that - sh-- - Ma'am!"

 

"Which one did you say it was, Ma'am?" the General asked.

 

"That tall one over there near the window, General," the woman replied with smug satisfaction. One of the Lieutenants standing alongside the Commandant began to look sick and put a hand on the wall for support.

 

General Gray immediately went into deep thought, with his hand to his chin, his brow wrinkled. Suddenly, he looked up, and his expression changed to one indicating he had made a decision.

 

He looked the fancy lady right in the eyes and said, "Well, f**k him! Don't give him any."

 

I love the story about General Gray.

I don't know if the story is true or not. Either way, it describes and typifies the Marine Corps that I know and love. I pray that it never changes.

 

Footnotes

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washingt...some_in_combat/

 

Many thanks to Doc Whitman (a Navy Corpsman who served with me in Viet Nam). I am in Doc Whitman’s debt for a few reasons. First, for sending me the above story concerning Commandant Gray. Second, and most important, because he was the Corpsman who patched me up immediately after I was wounded in Viet Nam. Semper Fi, Doc.

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

The following excerpt from http://www.bobparsons.com/

 

You'll find a link to the godaddy.com commercial as well.  I personally like the General Gray story and have no doubt it meeting him several times that he said something along those lines or worse.

232549[/snapback]

 

Those same generals/admirals are throttling us with UCMJ regs that take the fun out of being a man in the military... so when they get reprimanded, BOO frickin HOO... they are the BIGGEST offenders of all... telling us in these messages what not to do, represent the military in the best light, and then they say things like that??? COME ON, no more double standards!!!

 

If an enlisted man E-6 and below said that, they'd FRY US. BOO frickin HOO.

 

Ease off of us sirs; we need a break from all the military PC crap.

 

END OF RANT

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Those same generals/admirals are throttling us with UCMJ regs that take the fun out of being a man in the military... so when they get reprimanded, BOO frickin HOO... they are the BIGGEST offenders of all... telling us in these messages what not to do, represent the military in the best light, and then they say things like that??? COME ON, no more double standards!!!

 

If an enlisted man E-6 and below said that, they'd FRY US. BOO frickin HOO.

 

Ease off of us sirs; we need a break from all the military PC crap.

 

END OF RANT

232690[/snapback]

 

you say US. I missed the post where you stated you are a military person.

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

you say US. I missed the post where you stated you are a military person.

232695[/snapback]

 

I guess you did!! Anchors Aweigh

 

I thought everyone knew

[VABills]

Those same generals/admirals are throttling us with UCMJ regs that take the fun out of being a man in the military... so when they get reprimanded, BOO frickin HOO... they are the BIGGEST offenders of all... telling us in these messages what not to do, represent the military in the best light, and then they say things like that??? COME ON, no more double standards!!!

 

If an enlisted man E-6 and below said that, they'd FRY US. BOO frickin HOO.

 

Ease off of us sirs; we need a break from all the military PC crap.

 

END OF RANT

232690[/snapback]

You know I served 6 years, and was very much known for saying what was on my mind, but following it up with some outstanding service. Never seemed to affect me or my career. It fact it was one of the reasons that got me promoted very quickly and got me a nice chest of medals, for stating what was wrong, or my opinion and following it up with actions to fix or do something to correct anything that is wrong.

 

However the UCMJ is quite effective in shutting up the whining service members who get into trouble, complain, become barracks lawyers and are nothing but a drain on their service.

 

I guess we know where you fall based on your reply.

[DC Tom]

you say US. I missed the post where you stated you are a military person.

232695[/snapback]

 

He's mentioned it before; I believe he's in-theater either now, or in the very recent past.

 

Doesn't make him any less of a putz, of course...but at least he's not a lying putz...

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

You know I served 6 years, and was very much known for saying what was on my mind, but following it up with some outstanding service.  Never seemed to affect me or my career.  It fact it was one of the reasons that got me promoted very quickly and got me a nice chest of medals, for stating what was wrong, or my opinion and following it up with actions to fix or do something to correct anything that is wrong. 

 

However the UCMJ is quite effective in shutting up the whining service members who get into trouble, complain, become barracks lawyers and are nothing but a drain on their service. 

 

I guess we know where you fall based on your reply.

232808[/snapback]

 

Of course it is effective when used as it was intended. HOWEVER, when you heap additional outrageous standards on people that the VERY PEOPLE who make the rules disobey on a frequent basis, then there is a huge problem.

 

Evidently 95% of the people in my class this week disagree with you... they see the trend toward PC that I see, and frankly THAT is a drain on the military. Ohh, and it is funny when a LCDR says the same thing, that it is no fun to be in anymore. I guess those stories of 'Mademoiselle from Armentieres' and the camraderie among soldiers and sailors before this alarming trend are outdated. Centuries-old tradition is dying, and the new tradition sucks.

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

He's mentioned it before; I believe he's in-theater either now, or in the very recent past.

 

Doesn't make him any less of a putz, of course...but at least he's not a lying putz... 

232824[/snapback]

 

A putz? Come on... I'd rather be called a liberal than a putz!!

[KRC]

A putz? Come on... I'd rather be called a liberal than a putz!! 

233179[/snapback]

 

How about we just call you a liberal putz?

[VABills]

How about we just call you a liberal putz?

233183[/snapback]

For a change we could call him a putzy liberal.

[VABills]

Of course it is effective when used as it was intended. HOWEVER, when you heap additional outrageous standards on people that the VERY PEOPLE who make the rules disobey on a frequent basis, then there is a huge problem.

 

Evidently 95% of the people in my class this week disagree with you... they see the trend toward PC that I see, and frankly THAT is a drain on the military. Ohh, and it is funny when a LCDR says the same thing, that it is no fun to be in anymore. I guess those stories of 'Mademoiselle from Armentieres' and the camraderie among soldiers and sailors before this alarming trend are outdated. Centuries-old tradition is dying, and the new tradition sucks.

233173[/snapback]

Again, I have friends, very senior still in the Corps and made other friends through the years who are more junior. While the Marine Corps has seen some of the PC BS, it doesn't seem to be overly constraining still. I know a lot of the guys bitched and moaned a few years back when the more "liberal" colonels were moving into the General ranks, based more on their ability to talk to Congress and the press then to come up with battle plans and implement them. But the Zinni's of the Corps are pushed aside and to be honest not very well respected by the ranks. Guys like Gray, Mattis, the Pullers, and Barrows are much more respected within the ranks. Their candor and ability to keep the guys alive and get the mission accomplished rather than make great soundbytes for congress and the media is a much more important factor usually within the Marine Corps.

 

Guys like General Boomer, Fox, and Mattis are degraded by Congress and the media for their sharp tongue, all while proving they are the best at what they do and have proven time and a gain that mission and men come first before budgets and boot licking. If the other services choose to do so and bring the hate upon them by their men that is their call, but Mattis is still in his position and is not being forced to retire.

[DC Tom]

A putz? Come on... I'd rather be called a liberal than a putz!! 

233179[/snapback]

 

I thought they were synonymous...

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

Again, I have friends, very senior still in the Corps and made other friends through the years who are more junior.  While the Marine Corps has seen some of the PC BS, it doesn't seem to be overly constraining still.  I know a lot of the guys bitched and moaned a few years back when the more "liberal" colonels were moving into the General ranks, based more on their ability to talk to Congress and the press then to come up with battle plans and implement them.  But the Zinni's of the Corps are pushed aside and to be honest not very well respected by the ranks.  Guys like Gray, Mattis, the Pullers, and Barrows are much more respected within the ranks.  Their candor and ability to keep the guys alive and get the mission accomplished rather than make great soundbytes for congress and the media is a much more important factor usually within the Marine Corps. 

 

Guys like General Boomer, Fox, and Mattis are degraded by Congress and the media for their sharp tongue, all while proving they are the best at what they do and have proven time and a gain that mission and men come first before budgets and boot licking.  If the other services choose to do so and bring the hate upon them by their men that is their call, but Mattis is still in his position and is not being forced to retire.

233225[/snapback]

 

So why this movement to tighten the noose around soldiers, sailors, and airmen through the UCMJ, when they KNOW the policies they implement affect mostly junior people?

 

If you are going to support the line that these generals are taking, why don't you feel the need to follow through with the other half, giving the men who actually are the backbone of the military more freedom of speech/action like previous eras?? It makes no sense to me.

[VABills]

So why this movement to tighten the noose around soldiers, sailors, and airmen through the UCMJ, when they KNOW the policies they implement affect mostly junior people?

 

If you are going to support the line that these generals are taking, why don't you feel the need to follow through with the other half, giving the men who actually are the backbone of the military more freedom of speech/action like previous eras?? It makes no sense to me.

233394[/snapback]

Actually you guys have too much freedom of speech. We were always under strict orders never to talk to the media, etc... Even if it was something not military related. We could have been charged under UCMJ for that. For example if we went to a beer tasting and a reporter asked our view we were always advised to say "talk to base public relations".

 

Of course you then can't whine when someone tells you to do something. But that's too bad, you're not paid to whine to the media. You're paid to do your job and protect this country. You signed and gave up certain freedoms, as is in your contract, when you joined the military. You don't want to live by the terms of your contract, so be it. Deal with the consequences then.

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

Actually you guys have too much freedom of speech.  We were always under strict orders never to talk to the media, etc...  Even if it was something not military related.  We could have been charged under UCMJ for that.  For example if we went to a beer tasting and a reporter asked our view we were always advised to say "talk to base public relations".   

 

Of course you then can't whine when someone tells you to do something.  But that's too bad, you're not paid to whine to the media.  You're paid to do your job and protect this country.  You signed and gave up certain freedoms, as is in your contract, when you joined the military.  You don't want to live by the terms of your contract, so be it.  Deal with the consequences then.

233432[/snapback]

 

So why are you DEFENDING this guy who said what he said? THEY don't live by the terms when they embarass the service with comments like that...

 

My contract said NOTHING about not having the right to point out the restrictions that were NOT on men in the past are on us now. It's not FAIR... and has NOTHING to do with the media.

[VABills]

So why are you DEFENDING this guy who said what he said? THEY don't live by the terms when they embarass the service with comments like that...

 

My contract said NOTHING about not having the right to point out the restrictions that were NOT on men in the past are on us now. It's not FAIR... and has NOTHING to do with the media.

233464[/snapback]

Sure your contract does. It says you will abide by the UCMJ. One of the rules is that you will do nothing that is detrimental to the service.

 

What General Mattis did, probably helped recriting in the Marine Corps and the BS that you and the media is spouting only makes the men of the Marine Corps despise the whining even more and back General Mattis up that much more.

 

Who gives a sh-- if it is FAIR? Life isn't FAIR. I don't what it is about the other services, the whining that you as a squid is doing, the refusing of orders that the Army seems to permit, but the Marine Corps doesn't deal as nicely with it. I was always told and it always held true, when given orders, if you don't like them, do it and then complain later.

 

What the hell did you learn in bootcamp? Obviously you needed different DI, and your current CO is a wuss, who needs to instill better discipline in you guys.

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

Sure your contract does.  It says you will abide by the UCMJ.  One of the rules is that you will do nothing that is detrimental to the service. 

 

What General Mattis did, probably helped recriting in the Marine Corps and the BS that you and the media is spouting only makes the men of the Marine Corps despise the whining even more and back General Mattis up that much more. 

 

Who gives a sh-- if it is FAIR?  Life isn't FAIR.  I don't what it is about the other services, the whining that you as a squid is doing, the refusing of orders that the Army seems to permit, but the Marine Corps doesn't deal as nicely with it.  I was always told and it always held true, when given orders, if you don't like them, do it and then complain later. 

 

What the hell did you learn in bootcamp?  Obviously you needed different DI, and your current CO is a wuss, who needs to instill better discipline in you guys.

233491[/snapback]

 

WAIT a second.. WHO made some dumb-a$$ comment in the media about loving to shoot guys up that goes AGAINST military standards? If you want to talk about shut up and do it, then it starts from the LEADERSHIP, and if they don't do it, why should we?

 

If it was just me or some small minority who saw this movement, then I'd probably say it is a case of sour grapes... but when a LARGE number of people I have encountered notice it and are distressed by it, THEN there must be a problem, at it isn't just ONE branch!

 

What I learned in boot camp was about honor, courage, and commitment... You must have the COURAGE to stand up for what is right in the right manner, and do it honorably, and that is what I am doing... if others don't follow it, then that is THEM. They aren't just words to me, and I'm going to do what men have done in the military for centuries... say something when something is not right, and do it in the appropriate manner!! If you don't like that, then that is your opinion, but when the shiite hits the fan, you know as well as I do that all that isn't important one iota. But as long as it isn't, we'll point out the hypocrisy and ludicrous nature of the movement that is occuring EVERY TIME.

[VABills]

WAIT a second.. WHO made some dumb-a$$ comment in the media about loving to shoot guys up that goes AGAINST military standards? If you want to talk about shut up and do it, then it starts from the LEADERSHIP, and if they don't do it, why should we?

 

 

234206[/snapback]

 

This is where the problem you are having with this is. He didn't do it for the media. He did it in a conference of officers, but the "media" picked up on it. It was taken out of context and the media knows this. That is why Hagee just told him to watch who is around next time and did not give him a formal reprimand.

 

The guys in the service know who General Mattis is.