ALF Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Leroi , I'am hoping EJ does well , but keep giving inside info if you do have it.
CardinalScotts Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Without a doubt 6-10, Chan was never a good OC. well since we are stating facts- Chans been around the NFL primarily as a OC for 20 years and is as well respected as anyone. You don't hang around the NFL in a coordinator position if you don't know what your doing. To answer the question EJ would be a ways ahead as a quarterback- our over all record - ?
Webster Guy Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Bc EJ has been so good at making quick reads and completing slants Chan is really overrated by a lot of ppl on this board So by saying Chan is overrated, what you really mean is YOU understand perfectly how good he was (or wasn't), and if anyone rates him higher than where you know he belongs, then they're wrong. Here's what I saw with Chan's spread offense: Fitz go from a perennial backup in his first five years to a respectable 23 touchdown 15 INT season. Spiller went from 3.8 yards a carry as a rookie to 5.2 then an unbelievable 6 yards per carry in Chan's last season as head coach. Adrian Peterson and Barry Sanders are 5.0 average yards per carry, Jim Brown was 5.2. SIX yards per touch average on 200 plus carries with a mediocre line means you have an OC that is very good at confusing defenses. He knows how to take starting linebackers and defensive linemen and put them on the bench by spreading the field with empty backfields and multiple receiver sets, forcing opponents to run with backup defensive backs, who aren't usually their best players. He's also an excellent game caller as far as clock management, what type of play to call in each situation, etc. Consider that his starting receivers were Stevie, TJ Graham and Donald Jones, with Fitz the INT machine. It wasn't like he had a great Oline either. All in all, the guy did much more with much less than the majority of coaches I've seen. He may not be the best coach of all time, but he's a good one for sure.
Agent 91 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 What if you were right about EJ and Fred getting cut or the Bills signing McCown? You'd be a prophet instead of turning into an EJ troll. EJ and Fred could have happened. It was said that Fred was gone until Pegula stepped in. I don't really believe in inside bills sources. Even a Garbage can gets a steak. And a broken clock is right 2 times a day. Meaning if you keep talking and with a little luck you may hit once or twice
Nanker Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 What if you were right about EJ and Fred getting cut or the Bills signing McCown? You'd be a prophet instead of turning into an EJ troll. Fact. Leroi , I'am hoping EJ does well , but keep giving inside info if you do have it. Me too, but face it - how many times are you in the mens room with a GM? Fact. IMO
Homey D. Clown Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) One thing I'll say about Gailey, he has a knack for getting the most out of the least he has to work with at the QB position. Can't help but wonder how much he could have got out of EJ if he were coaching him last year. If nothing else, the offense as a whole was better under Gailey than Marrone. With our defense, I still think we would have got 1 maybe 2 more wins. He would have still missed open receivers and had a meaninglessly high completion percentage due to poorly executed dump off passes. The only difference would have been that Chan would not have had the GONADS to bench EJ, and the team more than likely would have gone 6-10. Nobody can make EJ better but EJ. It's not his willingness to learn, or his work ethic, or his character. he's just not a good QB. The same could be said about Cap'n Checkdown, JP Lostman, Ryan Fitztragic, or any other steam pile that has started under center for this team since 2005. Until they draft a real, solid prospect, can't miss type of guy, these stupid debates will always keep popping up. The only QBs in the modern era of Buffalo Bills history that were worth 2 squirts of piss were Jim Kelly and Joe Ferguson. And they both were can't miss types of talent. EJ was very easily a CAN MISS talent, I would be willing to bet my entire 401K on the fact that if the Bills did not draft him in the first round, he had a high probability of not even getting drafted. There is no GM in the NFL on any team sitting at his desk kicking himself for not drafting the guy. Edited April 8, 2015 by Homey D. Clown
Gugny Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) He would have still missed open receivers and had a meaninglessly high completion percentage due to poorly executed dump off passes. The only difference would have been that Chan would not have had the GONADS to bench EJ, and the team more than likely would have gone 6-10. Nobody can make EJ better but EJ. It's not his willingness to learn, or his work ethic, or his character. he's just not a good QB. The same could be said about Cap'n Checkdown, JP Lostman, Ryan Fitztragic, or any other steam pile that has started under center for this team since 2005. Until they draft a real, solid prospect, can't miss type of guy, these stupid debates will always keep popping up. The only QBs in the modern era of Buffalo Bills history that were worth 2 squirts of piss were Jim Kelly and Joe Ferguson. And they both were can't miss types of talent. EJ was very easily a CAN MISS talent, I would be willing to bet my entire 401K on the fact that if the Bills did not draft him in the first round, he had a high probability of not even getting drafted. There is no GM in the NFL on any team sitting at his desk kicking himself for not drafting the guy. He's played in 14 games. Here are some others who did FAR WORSE in their first 11-16 games ... Troy Aikman (1989) 11 games; 155-293 for 1749 yards; 9 TD; 18 INT; 55.9 passer rating. John Elway (1983) 11 games; 123-259 for 1663 yards; 7 TD; 14 INT; 54.9 passer rating. Warren Moon (1984) 16 games; 259-450 for 3338 yards; 12 TD; 14 INT; 76.9 passer rating. Steve Young (1986) 14 games; 195-363 for 2282 yards; 8 TD; 13 INT; 65.5 passer rating. Edited April 8, 2015 by Gugny
thewildrabbit Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 My take is the entire reason EJ was benched was because he was limiting the play calls for Hackett, and didn't know the entire offense. Then he had trouble reading the defenses and getting the ball out quickly enough when under duress. Its not EJ's fault tho because look who his coaches were. To the fans that think Gailey was the shiznit...the guy didn't know jack about his players and their abilities up until they fell on their proverbial faces during a game. Good coaches can see what they have in their players during practices, and pre season. Remember Chan the dufas stating that Fitz, Brohm, and Trent were all about the same in 2010, then started Trent Edwards then ended up cutting him after three starts. Brohm was cut later on. Chan couldn't see what he had in RT Cornell Green, and couldn't see that Spiller didn't know his routes, how to block effectively, and most important couldn't find a hole his first game. He was promptly benched for Jackson who had a cast on his hand. Chan was all about hiring friends as assistants, and not talented people. Gailey needs an experienced QB with the ability to get the ball out very quickly for his short, quick passing scheme to work properly. Even then it was all smoke and mirrors in trying to fool defense with only one decent WR on the roster in Stevie. Lets not forget 4-12, 6-10, 6-10. I doubt Chan would look good with EJ starting, and I doubt he will make Geno look good. Fitz stated before the team hired QB coach David Lee, who worked on Fitz's mechanics in 2012 that nobody had ever worked with him previously. Meaning Gailey is not a QB guru!! Both Gailey and the guy that hired him stunk it up in Buffalo for three years. I'm not overly concerned about Chan Gailey as the OC for the Jets. His offense should be figured out fairly quickly by NFL defenses, and the result will not be good. JMO
Kelly the Dog Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Nothing matters but reality. And that obviously doesn't really matter to most around here.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 He's played in 14 games. Here are some others who did FAR WORSE in their first 11-16 games ... Troy Aikman (1989) 11 games; 155-293 for 1749 yards; 9 TD; 18 INT; 55.9 passer rating. John Elway (1983) 11 games; 123-259 for 1663 yards; 7 TD; 14 INT; 54.9 passer rating. Warren Moon (1984) 16 games; 259-450 for 3338 yards; 12 TD; 14 INT; 76.9 passer rating. Steve Young (1986) 14 games; 195-363 for 2282 yards; 8 TD; 13 INT; 65.5 passer rating. obligatory post about how the game has changed in the last 25+ years
Mr. WEO Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 well since we are stating facts- Chans been around the NFL primarily as a OC for 20 years and is as well respected as anyone. You don't hang around the NFL in a coordinator position if you don't know what your doing. To answer the question EJ would be a ways ahead as a quarterback- our over all record - ? Well, if you want to bring facts into your fact statement, you would have said that Chan has been primarily and OC for only 8 years (3 I'm counting with the Bills, otherwise it's only 5). The Chan Gailey myth is still powerful, if inexplicable....
Homey D. Clown Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 He's played in 14 games. Here are some others who did FAR WORSE in their first 11-16 games ... Troy Aikman (1989) 11 games; 155-293 for 1749 yards; 9 TD; 18 INT; 55.9 passer rating. John Elway (1983) 11 games; 123-259 for 1663 yards; 7 TD; 14 INT; 54.9 passer rating. Warren Moon (1984) 16 games; 259-450 for 3338 yards; 12 TD; 14 INT; 76.9 passer rating. Steve Young (1986) 14 games; 195-363 for 2282 yards; 8 TD; 13 INT; 65.5 passer rating. If EJ starts this year... and I'm really not excited about that statement, please compare those numbers for the board with these names. Each of those aforementioned players in your list showed the ability to lead, execute and adapt in those first games. there were not many who didn't think they can develop, and other teams would have killed for at least 2 of them right away, and the other 2 made the league wish they had them. this comparison is total garbage, and proves nothing. Just to show you how meaningless your numbers are, here's JP Losman's for reference, 1st 14 games. ATT: 400.......COMP: 219........YARDS: 2461.........TD: 14....... INT: 13 Ohhhh my God!!!! we need to call him back... and NOW!!!!! based upon your logic of course.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 If EJ starts this year... and I'm really not excited about that statement, please compare those numbers for the board with these names. Each of those aforementioned players in your list showed the ability to lead, execute and adapt in those first games. there were not many who didn't think they can develop, and other teams would have killed for at least 2 of them right away, and the other 2 made the league wish they had them. this comparison is total garbage, and proves nothing. Just to show you how meaningless your numbers are, here's JP Losman's for reference, 1st 14 games. ATT: 400.......COMP: 219........YARDS: 2461.........TD: 14....... INT: 13 Ohhhh my God!!!! we need to call him back... and NOW!!!!! based upon your logic of course. What a joke of post. You're the king of hindsight. You'd be the same moron who would be running Elway and Young out of town when they struggled early in their careers. obligatory post about how the game has changed in the last 25+ years Throwing more ints than tds was never acceptable. It's hard to believe but most young Qbs have their struggles.
Dorkington Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 If EJ starts this year... and I'm really not excited about that statement, please compare those numbers for the board with these names. Each of those aforementioned players in your list showed the ability to lead, execute and adapt in those first games. there were not many who didn't think they can develop, and other teams would have killed for at least 2 of them right away, and the other 2 made the league wish they had them. this comparison is total garbage, and proves nothing. Just to show you how meaningless your numbers are, here's JP Losman's for reference, 1st 14 games. ATT: 400.......COMP: 219........YARDS: 2461.........TD: 14....... INT: 13 Ohhhh my God!!!! we need to call him back... and NOW!!!!! based upon your logic of course. Actually his logic is, its too early to make a final conclusion. The same would go for JP. You give them a bit longer, and they either figure it out, (in the case of the first 4) or they don't (JP).
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Throwing more ints than tds was never acceptable. It's hard to believe but most young Qbs have their struggles. So you agree that only 1 stat out of that entire mess is actually relevant? (TD:INT Ratio)
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 So you agree that only 1 stat out of that entire mess is actually relevant? (TD:INT Ratio) I've always thought completion % was overrated. Trent set the NFL record for highest completion % for any 2nd year qb. If EJ completed 50% of his passes at 9 ypa, that is more important than completion 70% at 5 ypa. One of the things I like about EJ is takes care of the ball. A positive td to int ratio for his career and that includes an awful 4 int game. Actually his logic is, its too early to make a final conclusion. The same would go for JP. You give them a bit longer, and they either figure it out, (in the case of the first 4) or they don't (JP). Also, JP didn't play as a rookie and got to learned under Bledsoe.
Max997 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) So by saying Chan is overrated, what you really mean is YOU understand perfectly how good he was (or wasn't), and if anyone rates him higher than where you know he belongs, then they're wrong. Here's what I saw with Chan's spread offense: Fitz go from a perennial backup in his first five years to a respectable 23 touchdown 15 INT season. Spiller went from 3.8 yards a carry as a rookie to 5.2 then an unbelievable 6 yards per carry in Chan's last season as head coach. Adrian Peterson and Barry Sanders are 5.0 average yards per carry, Jim Brown was 5.2. SIX yards per touch average on 200 plus carries with a mediocre line means you have an OC that is very good at confusing defenses. He knows how to take starting linebackers and defensive linemen and put them on the bench by spreading the field with empty backfields and multiple receiver sets, forcing opponents to run with backup defensive backs, who aren't usually their best players. He's also an excellent game caller as far as clock management, what type of play to call in each situation, etc. Consider that his starting receivers were Stevie, TJ Graham and Donald Jones, with Fitz the INT machine. It wasn't like he had a great Oline either. All in all, the guy did much more with much less than the majority of coaches I've seen. He may not be the best coach of all time, but he's a good one for sure. Fitz was the same QB before he got to Buffalo and played for Chan and is the same QB now...the only difference is the amount of time he was on the field with the Bills as opposed to everywhere else he played Chan was anything but an excellent game caller or knew what to call in each situation as he more often then not would line up in 5 wide on 3rd and short calling a pass play that either went incomplete or ended up in a sack. How many times did he punt from inside the opponents 40? the Chan fans on here bragged about how few sacks the Bills gave up and credited that to the Bills having one of the best lines in the league...now its the line wasnt that great either Im convinced the Chan defenders only remember the two comebacks and blocked out all of the other games Edited April 8, 2015 by Max997
Gugny Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 If EJ starts this year... and I'm really not excited about that statement, please compare those numbers for the board with these names. Each of those aforementioned players in your list showed the ability to lead, execute and adapt in those first games. there were not many who didn't think they can develop, and other teams would have killed for at least 2 of them right away, and the other 2 made the league wish they had them. this comparison is total garbage, and proves nothing. Just to show you how meaningless your numbers are, here's JP Losman's for reference, 1st 14 games. ATT: 400.......COMP: 219........YARDS: 2461.........TD: 14....... INT: 13 Ohhhh my God!!!! we need to call him back... and NOW!!!!! based upon your logic of course. Thank you for making my point, Einstein. 14 games is not enough to judge a QB's career. Thanks for playing along, love.
Webster Guy Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Fitz was the same QB before he got to Buffalo and played for Chan and is the same QB now...the only difference is the amount of time he was on the field with the Bills as opposed to everywhere else he played Chan was anything but an excellent game caller or knew what to call in each situation as he more often then not would line up in 5 wide on 3rd and short calling a pass play that either went incomplete or ended up in a sack. How many times did he punt from inside the opponents 40? the Chan fans on here bragged about how few sacks the Bills gave up and credited that to the Bills having one of the best lines in the league...now its the line wasnt that great either Im convinced the Chan defenders only remember the two comebacks and blocked out all of the other games I was referring to Chan as far as his talent to run an NFL offense. He must have had a good explanation for why he sucks as game caller and why he would line up 5 wide on 3rd and short when he was interviewing for the Jets OC job. Bowles interviewed a lot of guys for that position, I wonder if he knows what you know about him?
Saxum Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 If Chan was coach. EJ would have never been drafted and we would have finished 6-10. Fact. Imo Only fact in that it is your opinion. That is a fact.
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