QB Bills Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Huh? They were taken in the same draft... who is saying that? But even then, I'm ok with going back further to see Whaley's impact on the roster. He's been in the trenches so to speak for a while. I've read it here. Not saying you are saying that. My whole point is that it's a ridiculous comment. Again, for those who think Whaley is worlds better than Nix, please state when you think it is he actually took over the primary responsibilities. And the players brought in after that point. Yes, this is a talented roster. But the majority of the credit for that goes to Nix, not Whaley.
Dorkington Posted April 9, 2015 Author Posted April 9, 2015 I've read it here. Not saying you are saying that. My whole point is that it's a ridiculous comment. Again, for those who think Whaley is worlds better than Nix, please state when you think it is he actually took over the primary responsibilities. And the players brought in after that point. Yes, this is a talented roster. But the majority of the credit for that goes to Nix, not Whaley. Not sure why it needs to be mutually exclusive. The way I see it, Nix did some good things, laid a foundation and mentored Whaley a bit, Whaley came in and built on that.
T master Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) I voted in the B column but think it is a A with the players he has brought in . But then i think about next year & how they will be able to keep the players under contract that will need new contracts !! Thats when it dropped to a B ... Edited April 9, 2015 by T master
MarkAF43 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I gave him a C, it would've been a B but a couple papers were turned in late sooooo
Deranged Rhino Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Yes, this is a talented roster. But the majority of the credit for that goes to Nix, not Whaley. Incorrect.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Yes, 21 TD's as a rookie on the Raiders is a bust season. As usual, you're off the mark because they aren't Bills. As usual you are cherry-picking your stats. So I guess going 3-13 as a starter makes him a stud? Or how about his 58.1 completion percentage? Ranks right around 19th, in the same ballpark as franchise QB Ryan Fitzpatrick. Let's compare Carr to a certified dud: EJ Manuel. Rookie QBR: EJ-77.7 Carr-76.6. Hmmm, I see your point here. Judging by his rookie stats, Carr will have a bust in Canton one day! Of course I'm being sarcastic. Carr is a nice QB. Had a decent rookie season. But nothing about him guarantees he's a franchise QB yet, or Bridgewater for that matter. So for you to raise these two as examples of whiffs by Whaley is simply insane. Just something conjured up in your head to bolster your flimsy arguments. Edited April 9, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 The poll has it right... He gets a A. The bills roster was lean on talent when he took over in 2013, and it was total garbage prior to his arrival in 2010. In his tenure he completely overhaul linebacker and we corps, kept a very talented secondary together, extended key building block players. Yeah no qb, but it's not for lack of attempted solutions. Because the institution of football clearly lacks a good metric to identify qb potential, he deserves a few more seasons worth of a pass for not having a solution yet there. I am confident that will be solved too, if it isn't already.
FireChan Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) As usual you are cherry-picking your stats. So I guess going 3-13 as a starter makes him a stud? Or how about his 58.1 completion percentage? Ranks right around 19th, in the same ballpark as franchise QB Ryan Fitzpatrick. Let's compare Carr to a certified dud: EJ Manuel. Rookie QBR: EJ-77.7 Carr-76.6. Hmmm, I see your point here. Judging by his rookie stats, Carr will have a bust in Canton one day! Of course I'm being sarcastic. Carr is a nice QB. Had a decent rookie season. But nothing about him guarantees he's a franchise QB yet, or Bridgewater for that matter. So for you to raise these two as examples of whiffs by Whaley is simply insane. Just something conjured up in your head to bolster your flimsy arguments. Would any GM trade Bridgewater/Carr for Cassell/EJ? Nah. They're upgrades. They don't need to be Hall of Famers for you to be incorrect. Remember when you used to say, "Man, I really hope the fans don't run out a QB who threw for 24 TD's and regret it later?" I do. And yet, here's a rookie QB who throws 21 TD's on the Raiders and now he's nothing compared the talent Whaley has unearthed. I cherry-picked the same cherry you used to. Like I said, off the mark because they aren't Bills. Edited April 9, 2015 by FireChan
PromoTheRobot Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Would any GM trade Bridgewater/Carr for Cassell/EJ? Nah. They're upgrades. They don't need to be Hall of Famers for you to be incorrect. Remember when you used to say, "Man, I really hope the fans don't run out a QB who threw for 24 TD's and regret it later?" I do. And yet, here's a rookie QB who throws 21 TD's on the Raiders and now he's nothing compared the talent Whaley has unearthed. I cherry-picked the same cherry you used to. Like I said, off the mark because they aren't Bills. The yardstick of what's expected from Bills players is always way longer than it is for other team's players. And what is considered good changes from day to day. I think it's mainly because we follow every detail on our guys while only seeing highlights of other players. Edited April 9, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
Dr. Fong Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 In my book you don't get an A until you win a Super Bowl, so I voted B.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) If I were to grade him strictly based on player evaluation, B+. Maybe even an A- But an overall rating? Probably a C. He's not even in the same room as the elite GM's in the league (i.e. Newsome) In 2002, Newsome's first year, the Ravens started Jeff Blake and Chris Redman at QB. The elite Newsome "fixed" that the next year (2003) by drafting Kyle Boller. Both Boller and Anthony Wright started some games that year, and would do the same in 2005. They would again split time between Boller, Wright, and McNair in 2007. They finally drafted Joe Flacco in 2008, and we all know it took Flacco at least a few years to catch on. So that was 5 years of poorly addressing the QB situation, and a total of about 9 years into his GM tenure before they saw good QB play. But Newsome was great at building Defenses and RBs and re-signing his own guys, so that got him a lot of cred. Gee, who does that sound like? Edited April 9, 2015 by DrDareustein
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I've read it here. Not saying you are saying that. My whole point is that it's a ridiculous comment. Again, for those who think Whaley is worlds better than Nix, please state when you think it is he actually took over the primary responsibilities. And the players brought in after that point. Yes, this is a talented roster. But the majority of the credit for that goes to Nix, not Whaley. Hughes, Preston brown, watkins, Cassell, McCoy, Harvin, Graham... Are definitely his. I belive, based on nix stepping down immediately after the draft, I think he gets credit/blame for EJ, woods, kiko, Goodwin, duke, Gragg too. I've said it before thought, the bill started drafting differently and much better right before modrak left, after the turd that was 2010. I suspect they kept him around but used whaleys "list" for 2011.
FireChan Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) The yardstick of what's expected from Bills players is always way longer than it is for other team's players. And what is considered good changes from day to day. I think it's mainly because we follow every detail on our guys while only seeing highlights of other players. Always? You're telling me that fans don't cite bad W-L records of other guys, then spin the W-L records of ours with, "our defense blew it?" Or, when a vet QB on our team throws for 3000 yards and 24 TD's, we shouldn't run him out of town, but when a rookie throws for 3000 yards and 21 TD's on a different team, he's not good enough? You're the other side of the same coin. Both my points still stand. The QB's that were available to draft in 2014 are worth substantially more than the QB's on our roster. Period. That doesn't mean I'm giving Whaley an F, but to act as though there hasn't been a single available QB better than EJ/Cassel is incorrect. Edited April 9, 2015 by FireChan
Beef Jerky Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) In 2002, Newsome's first year, the Ravens started Jeff Blake and Chris Redman at QB. The elite Newsome "fixed" that the next year (2003) by drafting Kyle Boller. Both Boller and Anthony Wright started some games that year, and would do the same in 2005. They would again split time between Boller, Wright, and McNair in 2007. They finally drafted Joe Flacco in 2008, and we all know it took Flacco at least a few years to catch on. So that was 5 years of poorly addressing the QB situation, and a total of about 9 years into his GM tenure before they saw good QB play. But Newsome was great at building Defenses and RBs and re-signing his own guys, so that got him a lot of cred. Gee, who does that sound like? Maybe one day Whaley can get to that point and find a QB... Right now he is a C. Nothing wrong with a C. Edited April 9, 2015 by Beef Jerky
DrDawkinstein Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Maybe one day Whaley can get to that point and find a QB... Right now he is a C. If that's how you see it, fine. But the point is, so was the "elite" Newsome until 9 years into his career.
Beef Jerky Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 If that's how you see it, fine. But the point is, so was the "elite" Newsome until 9 years into his career. Yea and I wouldn't have given him an A either back then... But he has earned it now.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 If that's how you see it, fine. But the point is, so was the "elite" Newsome until 9 years into his career. You hit the nail on the head. DW turned a losing roster into a winning roster in 2 years as GM. If it were 10 years, then it's not quite an accomplishment. Many people have a tough time seeing time as a dimension. It's a very common limitation I see in people. Its an irrationality that live somewhere between grading a kindergartner and a 10th grader on the same scale, and expecting 9 mothers to produce a baby in on month.
FireChan Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 You hit the nail on the head. DW turned a losing roster into a winning roster in 2 years as GM. If it were 10 years, then it's not quite an accomplishment. Many people have a tough time seeing time as a dimension. It's a very common limitation I see in people. Its an irrationality that live somewhere between grading a kindergartner and a 10th grader on the same scale, and expecting 9 mothers to produce a baby in on month. How? A lot of our superstars are Nix grabs. Almost all of them, actually.
Beef Jerky Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) You hit the nail on the head. DW turned a losing roster into a winning roster in 2 years as GM. If it were 10 years, then it's not quite an accomplishment. Many people have a tough time seeing time as a dimension. It's a very common limitation I see in people. Its an irrationality that live somewhere between grading a kindergartner and a 10th grader on the same scale, and expecting 9 mothers to produce a baby in on month. "Common limitation I see in people" I see you don't understand most of those players are Nix guys. "if at first you don't succeed, maybe failure is your style" Edited April 9, 2015 by Beef Jerky
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