Cassel advantage and explanation of EJ's command issues

[Vinaccia]

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/8990/cassel-brady-maintain-close-friendship

In this article you will see the benefits of having worked with the greatest of our time at the QB position, Tom Brady. To keep this post short, it boils down to the fact that veteran guidance forces a player to learn the correct motions and puts him in his place at the most crucial time of a QB's career to avoid learning bad habits. When Cassel was a rookie, he had Brady correcting him every step of the way.

Brady said it best: "Look, you can’t be a guy and seen as a leader if you’re making mistakes, simple mistakes, on the field. You can’t be a guy that goes up and tries to get after somebody else if you’re making those mistakes."

EJ was thrown to the lions his first year. No veteran presence, and no QB coach. How could anybody expect him to thrive without that guidance and under the leadership of some pig like Doug Marrone? CJ noted that EJ was too buddy buddy with his players. This really boils down to EJ being confused and not having a mastery of the offense rather than him not being able to have that mental edge to call out other players. He downright KNEW that he wasn't going through the motions correctly, he wasn't reading defenses well, and most importantly putting that ball in the right place.

 

Look we all know after Cassel left the Patriots, his career has been met with inconsistency. But at the very least we have a competent veteran quarterback that has played with the best team and learned under the best QB and has made a playoff run on two different teams. We haven't had a QB that has done this since Drew Bledsoe.

 

Cassel knows the Patriots and openly admitted following them even when he was a Viking. If anybody knows how to beat them it would be either Matt Cassel or Rex Ryan. Cassel is still friends with Brady, and Brady respects him as a good quarterback. Perhaps Cassel is the piece that brings this team respect along with the other offensive options we have on the field, so that teams don't just mentally put themselves over us and lock in a win in their mind, as Brady has done the last decade.

[Beerball]

Why even bother to have Manuel in the thread title? This is a post about Meh, no reason to mention the other guy. If anything you may want to bring Taylor into the mix based on his experience with Flacco.

[kota]

Thank you for your very astute post on discussing a topic that hasn't been rehashed a thousand times.

[Beef Jerky]

I dont get it... So you wanted us to know that Cassel and Brady are good friends? And this pertains to EJ b.c he isn't friends with Brady?

[Ted William's frozen head]

I dont get it... So you wanted us to know that Cassel and Brady are good friends? And this pertains to EJ b.c he isn't friends with Brady?

EJ is what he is, and that is the same player that he was in College.

[Beef Jerky]

EJ is what he is, and that is the same player that he was in College.

What does that have to do with anything in this thread?

Edited April 5, 2015 by Beef Jerky

[Kelly the Dog]

Is that what happened to Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallet and Damond Huard and Rohan Davey?

[Beerball]

Is that what happened to Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallet and Damond Huard and Rohan Davey?

Bo Levi Mitchell?

[Kelly the Dog]

Bo Levi Mitchell?

That's not even a real name. That's from one of those name generator sites where you plug in a nursery rhyme character, a jean manufacturer and a hair products distributor to get your name. Mine was Peep Lee Sassoon. Edited April 5, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[Vinaccia]

I dont get it... So you wanted us to know that Cassel and Brady are good friends? And this pertains to EJ b.c he isn't friends with Brady?

The point of this thread is to point out the fact that no matter how many offensive options you put on the field, your team will never get respect until two things happen: 1.) Your younger QB Produces. 2.) You bring in a veteran QB like we have done that has respect from NFL players.

 

I hope EJ has progressed, but I really don't believe he had any chance in his first year, and perhaps that has tainted his career. Nobody knows how Manuel has progressed but I hope he wins in training camp. That would be the best thing for this franchise, even if EJ just improved to average starter quality quarterbacking. Manuel is tall to see the field good, strong, and has great mobility for his size. He also is a hardworking respectful mature young man. These are all GREAT traits. And despite what some critics say, he also has an arm on him. His past highlights showcase this, it just is a matter of consistency and if he has the ability to continue that consistency under game conditions. (We have seen him do it once before in the Panthers game). However, bringing in a Pro Bowl QB, that has been to the playoffs numerous times makes teams factor in a QB that can make the plays and execute the correct motions no matter what. Despite inconsistency, it makes teams realize that there is a QB who has done it before with less talent surrounding him, so it's more likely than not he probably can do it again.

 

This is NOT a thread about if Manuel is better than Cassel or vice versa. The person in charge, Rex Ryan, doesn't even know that. The point is to emphasize various POSITIVE points about each quarterback, in an offseason sentiment of pessimism because of our QB situation. Manuel has A LOT of support from his teammates and that is a great sign. But even if he struggles (which I emphasize is NOT his fault as he was a project QB without any mastery of the professional level of play, thrown to the wolves) we have a veteran QB that is RESPECTED by all the various teammates on the teams he has played with a proven track record of NFL success despite inconsistency.

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2015 by Vinaccia

[metzelaars_lives]

Why even bother to have Manuel in the thread title? This is a post about Meh, no reason to mention the other guy. If anything you may want to bring Taylor into the mix based on his experience with Flacco.

Starting tomorrow we can throw all this excuse making out the window and see what each player can do on the field. Personally, I would be most excited if Taylor won the job over Meh and Boyuel.

[Beerball]

That's not even a real name. That's from one of those name generator sites where you plug in a nursery rhyme character, a jean manufacturer and a hair products distributor to get your name. Mine was Peep Lee Sassoon.

Buggs Pepe Vavoom

[Kelly the Dog]

Buggs Pepe Vavoom

and both can likely play NFL QB as well as Bo Levi Mitchell or Jeff Bleck Tuel. Git 'er dun!!

[Beef Jerky]

The point of this thread is to point out the fact that no matter how many offensive options you put on the field, your team will never get respect until two things happen: 1.) Your younger QB Produces. 2.) You bring in a veteran QB like we have done that has respect from NFL players.

I hope EJ has progressed, but I really don't believe he had any chance in his first year, and perhaps that has tainted his career. Nobody knows how Manuel has progressed but I hope he wins in training camp. That would be the best thing for this franchise, even if EJ just improved to average starter quality quarterbacking. Manuel is tall to see the field good, strong, and has great mobility for his size. He also is a hardworking respectful mature young man. These are all GREAT traits. And despite what some critics say, he also has an arm on him. His past highlights showcase this, it just is a matter of consistency and if he has the ability to continue that consistency under game conditions. (We have seen him do it once before in the Panthers game). However, bringing in a Pro Bowl QB, that has been to the playoffs numerous times makes teams factor in a QB that can make the plays and execute the correct motions no matter what. Despite inconsistency, it makes teams realize that there is a QB who has done it before with less talent surrounding him, so it's more likely than not he probably can do it again.

 

This is NOT a thread about if Manuel is better than Cassel or vice versa. The person in charge, Rex Ryan, doesn't even know that. The point is to emphasize various POSITIVE points about each quarterback, in an offseason sentiment of pessimism because of our QB situation. Manuel has A LOT of support from his teammates and that is a great sign. But even if he struggles (which I emphasize is NOT his fault as he was a project QB without any mastery of the professional level of play, thrown to the wolves) we have a veteran QB that is RESPECTED by all the various teammates on the teams he has played with a proven track record of NFL success despite inconsistency.

 

Don't care about respect... I only care about wins.

[BackInDaDay]

solid original point regarding the importance of young players receiving guidance by vets, that transcends the Xs & Os and applies directly to their ability to lead.

 

i posted an article last season stating that i thought EJ was soft, and many on this board could only puff out their internet chests and question how i'd fare after saying that to the man.

that wasn't the point then, and it's not the OP's point - but the perception of EJ being 'soft' was not unfounded.

 

do you folks recall the comments that followed EJ's benching last year?

how Watkins and Woods described the difference between an Orton and a EJ huddle?

or maybe you remember reading Marrone's comments about EJ having to develop a 'thick skin' and 'fight' for what he wants?

 

back to the OP's point..

EJ has had plenty of coaches, but he's never had a mentor. he's never had a veteran confidant who could take him aside and emphasize what he needed to accomplish before he could command his teammates.

this was a less obvious failure in the development of a 1st round investment - and being its the QB position we're talking about, it was a major omission.

 

i've been scratching my head about how Matt Cassel fits into the scheme of things - purely from a skill set perspective. thanks to the OP for exposing another aspect of Cassel's acquisition that i hadn't considered.

[Big Turk]

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/8990/cassel-brady-maintain-close-friendship

 

In this article you will see the benefits of having worked with the greatest of our time at the QB position, Tom Brady. To keep this post short, it boils down to the fact that veteran guidance forces a player to learn the correct motions and puts him in his place at the most crucial time of a QB's career to avoid learning bad habits. When Cassel was a rookie, he had Brady correcting him every step of the way.

 

Brady said it best: "Look, you can’t be a guy and seen as a leader if you’re making mistakes, simple mistakes, on the field. You can’t be a guy that goes up and tries to get after somebody else if you’re making those mistakes."

 

EJ was thrown to the lions his first year. No veteran presence, and no QB coach. How could anybody expect him to thrive without that guidance and under the leadership of some pig like Doug Marrone? CJ noted that EJ was too buddy buddy with his players. This really boils down to EJ being confused and not having a mastery of the offense rather than him not being able to have that mental edge to call out other players. He downright KNEW that he wasn't going through the motions correctly, he wasn't reading defenses well, and most importantly putting that ball in the right place.

 

Look we all know after Cassel left the Patriots, his career has been met with inconsistency. But at the very least we have a competent veteran quarterback that has played with the best team and learned under the best QB and has made a playoff run on two different teams. We haven't had a QB that has done this since Drew Bledsoe.

 

Cassel knows the Patriots and openly admitted following them even when he was a Viking. If anybody knows how to beat them it would be either Matt Cassel or Rex Ryan. Cassel is still friends with Brady, and Brady respects him as a good quarterback. Perhaps Cassel is the piece that brings this team respect along with the other offensive options we have on the field, so that teams don't just mentally put themselves over us and lock in a win in their mind, as Brady has done the last decade.

 

Ryan has given the Patriots fits most games, even with bad teams....last year they should have won both games before losing them in the final seconds...

[John from Riverside]

solid original point regarding the importance of young players receiving guidance by vets, that transcends the Xs & Os and applies directly to their ability to lead.

 

i posted an article last season stating that i thought EJ was soft, and many on this board could only puff out their internet chests and question how i'd fare after saying that to the man.

that wasn't the point then, and it's not the OP's point - but the perception of EJ being 'soft' was not unfounded.

 

do you folks recall the comments that followed EJ's benching last year?

how Watkins and Woods described the difference between an Orton and a EJ huddle?

or maybe you remember reading Marrone's comments about EJ having to develop a 'thick skin' and 'fight' for what he wants?

 

back to the OP's point..

EJ has had plenty of coaches, but he's never had a mentor. he's never had a veteran confidant who could take him aside and emphasize what he needed to accomplish before he could command his teammates.

this was a less obvious failure in the development of a 1st round investment - and being its the QB position we're talking about, it was a major omission.

 

i've been scratching my head about how Matt Cassel fits into the scheme of things - purely from a skill set perspective. thanks to the OP for exposing another aspect of Cassel's acquisition that i hadn't considered.

I actually think the point is valid.......

 

But I dont think that EJ is soft......I think that EJ has been the victim of a lot of things that doom a young QB

 

- First......just as it was said the moment he was drafted by Mayok....."EJ Manuel is like a piece of clay.....a QB that you can mold into whatever you want" MEANING.......he had everything you look for....but was not NFL ready. So what do the bills do? THey go out and get an injury prone Kolb who on que gets hurt and EJ gets thrown onto the field way sooner then he should have. Manuel should have been holding a clipboard that first year.....regardless of how well he did or didnt do on the field.

 

- Then in that first year EJ was unlucky with the injuries......which took away something that actually should be a big part of his game.....his ability to move and make something from nothing to keep drives going instead of either forcing a bad play......the EJ Manuel that would run for a touchdown when he didnt see a receiver open was actually really fun to watch.....and made him dangerous........

 

- Then you go into this second year......under coaches that have made EVER SINGLE QB UNDER CENTER LOOK BAD WHEN GIVEN ENOUGH TIME......then Marrone frankly panics and pulls EJ (and I was not against it at the time I will admit.....but then Orton goes in....plays well for two games...then starts to suck which goes back to me no QB is looking good under these coaches thing)

 

- Along with all of this......the bills are a running team that frankly cant run the ball.....which makes it even harder on a quarterback.....were it now for what is frankly a super bowl caliber D no way we go 9 and 7

 

So now here we are......El Pegula's bills......crap load of money spend on the O side of the ball........EJ has had his chance to hold a clipboard behind a veteran and another veteran has been brought in......a OC who knows what it is to win in the NFL consistantly......a D with the gang intact.

 

I think EJ is gonna look better........how much better? I cannot say. Cassel is perfect mentoring/placeholding QB......lets just see....lets just see

[3rdand12]

The point of this thread is to point out the fact that no matter how many offensive options you put on the field, your team will never get respect until two things happen: 1.) Your younger QB Produces. 2.) You bring in a veteran QB like we have done that has respect from NFL players.

 

I hope EJ has progressed, but I really don't believe he had any chance in his first year, and perhaps that has tainted his career. Nobody knows how Manuel has progressed but I hope he wins in training camp. That would be the best thing for this franchise, even if EJ just improved to average starter quality quarterbacking. Manuel is tall to see the field good, strong, and has great mobility for his size. He also is a hardworking respectful mature young man. These are all GREAT traits. And despite what some critics say, he also has an arm on him. His past highlights showcase this, it just is a matter of consistency and if he has the ability to continue that consistency under game conditions. (We have seen him do it once before in the Panthers game). However, bringing in a Pro Bowl QB, that has been to the playoffs numerous times makes teams factor in a QB that can make the plays and execute the correct motions no matter what. Despite inconsistency, it makes teams realize that there is a QB who has done it before with less talent surrounding him, so it's more likely than not he probably can do it again.

 

This is NOT a thread about if Manuel is better than Cassel or vice versa. The person in charge, Rex Ryan, doesn't even know that. The point is to emphasize various POSITIVE points about each quarterback, in an offseason sentiment of pessimism because of our QB situation. Manuel has A LOT of support from his teammates and that is a great sign. But even if he struggles (which I emphasize is NOT his fault as he was a project QB without any mastery of the professional level of play, thrown to the wolves) we have a veteran QB that is RESPECTED by all the various teammates on the teams he has played with a proven track record of NFL success despite inconsistency.

 

 

 

I think its a reasonable assumption that a strong veteran presence mentoring EJ is a very good thing.

What EJ learned from Orton remains to be seen. But Cassel has that potential.

Thats why i think he is a good pickup. Can teach and mentor, and can backup well enough.

 

The season may well sit upon Manuel's shoulders.

Not a bad post really.

Edited April 5, 2015 by 3rdand12

[BackInDaDay]

I actually think the point is valid.......

 

But I dont think that EJ is soft......I think that EJ has been the victim of a lot of things that doom a young QB

 

- First......just as it was said the moment he was drafted by Mayok....."EJ Manuel is like a piece of clay.....a QB that you can mold into whatever you want" MEANING.......he had everything you look for....but was not NFL ready. So what do the bills do? THey go out and get an injury prone Kolb who on que gets hurt and EJ gets thrown onto the field way sooner then he should have. Manuel should have been holding a clipboard that first year.....regardless of how well he did or didnt do on the field.

 

- Then in that first year EJ was unlucky with the injuries......which took away something that actually should be a big part of his game.....his ability to move and make something from nothing to keep drives going instead of either forcing a bad play......the EJ Manuel that would run for a touchdown when he didnt see a receiver open was actually really fun to watch.....and made him dangerous........

 

- Then you go into this second year......under coaches that have made EVER SINGLE QB UNDER CENTER LOOK BAD WHEN GIVEN ENOUGH TIME......then Marrone frankly panics and pulls EJ (and I was not against it at the time I will admit.....but then Orton goes in....plays well for two games...then starts to suck which goes back to me no QB is looking good under these coaches thing)

 

- Along with all of this......the bills are a running team that frankly cant run the ball.....which makes it even harder on a quarterback.....were it now for what is frankly a super bowl caliber D no way we go 9 and 7

 

So now here we are......El Pegula's bills......crap load of money spend on the O side of the ball........EJ has had his chance to hold a clipboard behind a veteran and another veteran has been brought in......a OC who knows what it is to win in the NFL consistantly......a D with the gang intact.

 

I think EJ is gonna look better........how much better? I cannot say. Cassel is perfect mentoring/placeholding QB......lets just see....lets just see

 

i agree 100%.

it's regrettable that circumstances thrust Manuel forward before he was ready, and that his coaches did little to get him (or an 11 year vet) an offense to execute.

the 'soft' perception was created when he couldn't take control of his situation.. but considering the circumstances, it was unfairly premature for his coaches, teammates, and myself to conclude that.

hopefully EJ gets the rookie season everyone thought he'd get 2 years ago.

[kota]

EJ has had nobody to learn how to be a NFL QB in the league. he has had absolutely nobody. Orton is anything but a leader.

 

Leadership is a responsibility that someone has to be willing and wanting to take on and then you learn it from others.

 

Rodgers had Farve. Brady had Bledsoe. Luck has Hassleback.

 

It took Peyton years to win a championship. I don't recall who he learned from but when you have nobody it's trial by fire and in today's NFL fans and teams aren't willing to wait.