Article - "Ryan talks a good game, but will wins follow?"

[vorpma]

Here is the classic, negative, no nothing take of J Sullivan and the two nitwits on WGR afternoons - that the Watkins trade up was a blunder, should not/cannot not give up that 2015 # 1 pick. In the first place, to legitimately criticize that move, you should at least have some familiarity with the quality of players in the 2015 draft. Most NFL observers consider the second half of the first round in 2015 draft to be extremely weak. When Whaley makes that same point, Sullivan writes that Whaley is just attempting to justify his move. No Jerry, most NFL observers agree with Whaley, and it would be nice if for just once in your career you would develop a knowledgeable NFL source instead of taking the lazy way out and just gracing us with your uninformed opinion.

 

In criticizing that trade up, I never hear what dynamic player would be available at the # 19 spot. It is a sure bet that any player available at 19 would not make one iota of difference in the Bills 2015 playoff chances; had they retained that pick. But Watkins will!!

Time will tell; heard other "experts" call the trade a really bad move.

Sully is the same guy who complained the Bills were to conservative, never making bold moves to get better because they were too worried about protecting their jobs.

He's just a fricking sports writer - who cares!

[Beef Jerky]

Wins have followed Rex's talk... Wasn't until he was told not to talk did the wins stop.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

do the detractors believe Rex had the FO support in Jersey that we are seeing in Buffalo this offseason?

[Mr. WEO]

WEO

 

Exactly what facts have you given? If you consider the what the jets record was as your "facts" it is a using a broadsword where a scalpel should be used to try to figure out what happened between the 2 AFC championship runs and the droubt

 

- Rex Ryan did not all of a sudden become a bad coach

- I am quite sure that he did contribute to some of it

Are their really coaches that are "messiahs"?

 

It is a combonation of knowing what your doing.....knowing how to hire good assistants....and having a organization that is willing to get you what you need

Or perhaps he works with the QBs he is given?

 

As far as hiring garbage OC's......perhaps this is one of the things he has learned for his second stint

 

I mentioned the dropoff in results despite having largely the same teamin his first 2 years compared to his next 2. I mentioned that Idzik had nothing to do with this. I mentioned him burning through 3 OCs and 4 starting QBs (2 were 1st 2 round draft choices by 2 different GMs). I mentioned that though all of that FO change, all those roster moves, Rex is the constant. I also made clear that I don't believe that, with GM after GM, coordinator after coordinator, no one got "who Rex wanted" for him.

 

Therefore it was not a "broadsword, more like a scalpel.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Mr. WEO

[PromoTheRobot]

Time will tell; heard other "experts" call the trade a really bad move.

He's just a fricking sports writer - who cares!

First you cite "experts" not liking the Watkins trade, then you discredit one of those so-called experts.

[vorpma]

First you cite "experts" not liking the Watkins trade, then you discredit one of those so-called experts.

Ya in response to your experts; just trying to keep an expert guy happy! The experts I heard that disliked the trade were on the NFL channel, not really writers.

[PromoTheRobot]

Ya in response to your experts; just trying to keep an expert guy happy! The experts I heard that disliked the trade were on the NFL channel, not really writers.

If you really pay attention to what these experts actually know about the Bills, they don't think through the how & why of the Watkins deal. It's more of a knee jerk reaction., partly based on who makes the deal. If Bill Belichick does it, it's genius. If the Bills do it, it's probably a bad move.

[Beef Jerky]

He got the best out of his guys? He took that team from 2 AFCC games to 8-8 and 6-10.

 

 

 

Again, that same QB was on the roster in the AFCC games as well as the subsequent 2 non winning seasons.

 

Rex's fatal flaw is that he is horrible at picking OC's.

 

 

Like what? Ryan walked into a pretty good situation when the Jets hired him. Idzik, who is blamed for everything here, showed up for season 5.

Rex only hired his first OC

[3rdand12]

do the detractors believe Rex had the FO support in Jersey that we are seeing in Buffalo this offseason?

No One ever had the support that Pegulas are showing.

NO ONE EVER.

 

One Ego

If you really pay attention to what these experts actually know about the Bills, they don't think through the how & why of the Watkins deal. It's more of a knee jerk reaction., partly based on who makes the deal. If Bill Belichick does it, it's genius. If the Bills do it, it's probably a bad move.

Because Bill B would not do that crazy sheet ?

Rex only hired his first OC

[thewildrabbit]

I look at Rex Ryan, and see a guy who knows how to build a competitive defense when he already has good talent on the roster...and sadly that's about it. I don't see an astute talent evaluator who knows both defense, and offensive talent. I don't see a man who knows what coaches to hire that will help develop his players into a winning team.

 

I don't see a Bill Belichick or Bill Parcells who both had defensive backgrounds and knew how to win games. Parcells didn't want a flashy, superstar QB. He wanted a blue collar, lunch pail type of QB that wouldn't lose games for him. He won his last SB with a backup QB starting.

 

Belichick inherited a #1 overall QB in Drew Bledsoe, and then traded him away to a division rival. Then picked up a RB from that same division rival then got 1157 yards out of him on the way to his first SB. Doing this after only his second year with the Patriots. The man knows player talent, knows who to hire, and knows what schemes work on both sides of the ball. 6x times to a SB as HC, and won 4 of them.

 

 

I honestly don't get all the hype surrounding the hiring of a HC who just went 4-12 with his last team. Last year the Jets beat the Raiders (3-13), the Steelers (11-5) with Mike Vick at QB, the Titans (2-14), the Dolphins (8-8). They were a bad team all around, and even the defense was 24th in points allowed. Before the second game with Buffalo Ryan stated his team was 100% ready to play, and guaranteed they would play 1000% better then they did in the first game. The Jets lost to Buffalo that game 38-3, and Ryan look completely lost on the sidelines.

Edited April 8, 2015 by FeartheLosing

[Deranged Rhino]

I look at Rex Ryan, and see a guy who knows how to build a competitive defense when he already has good talent on the roster...and sadly that's about it.

 

I don't see a Bill Belichick or Bill Parcells who both had defensive backgrounds and knew how to win games.

 

I honestly don't get all the hype surrounding the hiring of a HC who just went 4-12 with his last team.

 

You don't get the hype because you haven't done your homework on the man's career.

[thewildrabbit]

 

You don't get the hype because you haven't done your homework on the man's career.

Care to elaborate on just what makes you think this HCing hire is worth the hype.

[Deranged Rhino]

Care to elaborate on just what makes you think this HCing hire is worth the hype.

 

Rex Ryan is not just a defensive coach, he's a brilliant defensive coach which is backed by a championship ring and his stewardship of dominating defenses for multiple organizations. Outside of The Hoodie, he's the brightest defensive mind in the game today. In his first two seasons as HC, with a lackluster offense and a green (and pretty terrible) QB running the show, Ryan twice brought the Jets to within a game of the Super Bowl. That didn't happen because he is a coach who's merely able to "build competitive defenses". That's massively underselling what the man brings to the team on that side of the ball.

 

Why is he worth the hype to the Bills specifically? Look at their roster. This team is ready to win now, they needed a veteran coach to come in who wouldn't suffer the rookie learning curve that we've watched so many recent Bills coaches struggle with. This team needed a coach who could best use the assets on the roster -- which at the time were mainly on the defensive side of the field. Outside of his Raven teams, this Bills defensive roster is the most talented Ryan has ever coached. To match the second greatest defensive mind in the league with this much talent should have Bills fans salivating ... not writing ridiculous posts like the one you wrote earlier.

 

If Ryan were some DC with zero HC experience, your post might actually hold weight -- even with the revisionist history you try to force upon the world claiming Belichick operated alone in the *pats' front office in the early 2000s (it didn't happen the way you said it did, btw) -- but he's not a rookie HC at all. He has a track record. Ryan's proven he can win as a HC, not just in the regular season but in the playoffs. He's also proven he can win with less talent, taking suspect rosters to .500 seasons, and somehow getting 4 wins from a team that lacked a single starting caliber CB on its entire roster last year. All that, and the man has a reputation that's gold amongst players around the league -- something that is very important to helping change how UFAs view the Bills organization as a whole.

 

The Bills were in chaos when St. Doug left. Despite winning 9 games, his departure blindsided this front office and new ownership group. The Pegulas were just trying to get their feet set for their first off season as NFL owners and suddenly needed to find a new HC, someone who would help bring stability to a franchise trying to get back to respectability. I never thought Ryan would be the hire, I never thought he'd be interested. But thankfully I was wrong because Ryan was the perfect guy for this moment in Bills' history.

 

And this doesn't even touch the fact that Ryan isn't alone. He brought in an all-star coaching staff, including an offensive coordinator who will be a HC before long. Sure, there's hype and flash with Ryan and the way he carries himself. He's a personality, and personality doesn't equate to more wins all by itself. Thankfully, Rex is more than just a big personality. He's an excellent coach and a better teacher. He's a great fit for this roster and this organization.

[C.Biscuit97]

Care to elaborate on just what makes you think this HCing hire is worth the hype.

Belichick was 5-11 his first year with Bledsoe and started 0-2 until Mo Lewis entered the picture. This is after he got fired with a losing record in Cleveland.

 

The Jets have had one of the least talented rosters in the NFL the last 2 years.

[Luxy312]

The questions of whether wins will follow is fair. As a HC, Rex has only had two teams with a record above 0.500 and that was 5 and 6 years ago respectively. Those teams both had top-3 defenses in the NFL and focused on running the football. Let's not forget that when the Jets were decent that Brian Schottenheimer was the OC. For the last couple of years, it's been Marty Mornhinwheg. Not a very good OC. The best running back they've been able to put on the field during Rex at HC was Thomas Jones, and that was awhile ago too. So now, he has Greg Roman running the offense. Under him, SF was top-5 rushing every year. Add McCoy, who's arguably top-3 at his position, and I see the Bills in somewhat of a perfect storm situation. Buffalo was 9th in the NFL last year in pass attempts and 20th in rushing attempts. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Buffalo will be top-3 in rushing attempts this year and in the bottom third of the NFL in passing. In terms of wins, I think they follow if the offensive line is truly better in run blocking. I think by virtue of adding Incognito, Clay, and Shelton; that they are.

[CodeMonkey]

 

I honestly don't get all the hype surrounding the hiring of a HC who just went 4-12 with his last team. Last year the Jets beat the Raiders (3-13), the Steelers (11-5) with Mike Vick at QB, the Titans (2-14), the Dolphins (8-8). They were a bad team all around, and even the defense was 24th in points allowed. Before the second game with Buffalo Ryan stated his team was 100% ready to play, and guaranteed they would play 1000% better then they did in the first game. The Jets lost to Buffalo that game 38-3, and Ryan look completely lost on the sidelines.

 

It's easy to explain. Rex is a Bill now so obviously he is great. Look back or remember when both the Gailey and Marrone hires were hailed as great right after they happened for other recent examples. I have my doubts about Rex based on past performance as I did with Marrone and Gailey. But only time will tell if Sexy Rexy turns it around or flames out. Until then enjoy the ride and give him your support is my advice. Rex is nothing if not entertaining.

 

[FireChan]

 

Rex Ryan is not just a defensive coach, he's a brilliant defensive coach which is backed by a championship ring and his stewardship of dominating defenses for multiple organizations. Outside of The Hoodie, he's the brightest defensive mind in the game today. In his first two seasons as HC, with a lackluster offense and a green (and pretty terrible) QB running the show, Ryan twice brought the Jets to within a game of the Super Bowl. That didn't happen because he is a coach who's merely able to "build competitive defenses". That's massively underselling what the man brings to the team on that side of the ball.

 

Why is he worth the hype to the Bills specifically? Look at their roster. This team is ready to win now, they needed a veteran coach to come in who wouldn't suffer the rookie learning curve that we've watched so many recent Bills coaches struggle with. This team needed a coach who could best use the assets on the roster -- which at the time were mainly on the defensive side of the field. Outside of his Raven teams, this Bills defensive roster is the most talented Ryan has ever coached. To match the second greatest defensive mind in the league with this much talent should have Bills fans salivating ... not writing ridiculous posts like the one you wrote earlier.

 

If Ryan were some DC with zero HC experience, your post might actually hold weight -- even with the revisionist history you try to force upon the world claiming Belichick operated alone in the *pats' front office in the early 2000s (it didn't happen the way you said it did, btw) -- but he's not a rookie HC at all. He has a track record. Ryan's proven he can win as a HC, not just in the regular season but in the playoffs. He's also proven he can win with less talent, taking suspect rosters to .500 seasons, and somehow getting 4 wins from a team that lacked a single starting caliber CB on its entire roster last year. All that, and the man has a reputation that's gold amongst players around the league -- something that is very important to helping change how UFAs view the Bills organization as a whole.

 

The Bills were in chaos when St. Doug left. Despite winning 9 games, his departure blindsided this front office and new ownership group. The Pegulas were just trying to get their feet set for their first off season as NFL owners and suddenly needed to find a new HC, someone who would help bring stability to a franchise trying to get back to respectability. I never thought Ryan would be the hire, I never thought he'd be interested. But thankfully I was wrong because Ryan was the perfect guy for this moment in Bills' history.

 

And this doesn't even touch the fact that Ryan isn't alone. He brought in an all-star coaching staff, including an offensive coordinator who will be a HC before long. Sure, there's hype and flash with Ryan and the way he carries himself. He's a personality, and personality doesn't equate to more wins all by itself. Thankfully, Rex is more than just a big personality. He's an excellent coach and a better teacher. He's a great fit for this roster and this organization.

In his first two seasons as HC, with a lackluster offense and a green (and pretty terrible) QB running the show, Ryan twice brought the Jets to within a game of the Super Bowl.

 

No. He had a historic rushing attack.

 

Other than that, good post. Ryan is a big name, almost as big as getting a "franchise" QB under center. He's a recruiter, and we've already seen some of that. He's got a great eye for defensive talent, as well. How many busts has he drafted on defense? Milliner, maybe? But in the same draft, he got the DROY.

Edited April 8, 2015 by FireChan

[PromoTheRobot]

In his first two seasons as HC, with a lackluster offense and a green (and pretty terrible) QB running the show, Ryan twice brought the Jets to within a game of the Super Bowl.

 

No. He had a historic rushing attack.

 

Other than that, good post. Ryan is a big name, almost as big as getting a "franchise" QB under center. He's a recruiter.

Maybe he can recruit Manziel? You'd like that.

[thewildrabbit]

 

Rex Ryan is not just a defensive coach, he's a brilliant defensive coach which is backed by a championship ring and his stewardship of dominating defenses for multiple organizations. Outside of The Hoodie, he's the brightest defensive mind in the game today. In his first two seasons as HC, with a lackluster offense and a green (and pretty terrible) QB running the show, Ryan twice brought the Jets to within a game of the Super Bowl. That didn't happen because he is a coach who's merely able to "build competitive defenses". That's massively underselling what the man brings to the team on that side of the ball.

 

Why is he worth the hype to the Bills specifically? Look at their roster. This team is ready to win now, they needed a veteran coach to come in who wouldn't suffer the rookie learning curve that we've watched so many recent Bills coaches struggle with. This team needed a coach who could best use the assets on the roster -- which at the time were mainly on the defensive side of the field. Outside of his Raven teams, this Bills defensive roster is the most talented Ryan has ever coached. To match the second greatest defensive mind in the league with this much talent should have Bills fans salivating ... not writing ridiculous posts like the one you wrote earlier.

 

If Ryan were some DC with zero HC experience, your post might actually hold weight -- even with the revisionist history you try to force upon the world claiming Belichick operated alone in the *pats' front office in the early 2000s (it didn't happen the way you said it did, btw) -- but he's not a rookie HC at all. He has a track record. Ryan's proven he can win as a HC, not just in the regular season but in the playoffs. He's also proven he can win with less talent, taking suspect rosters to .500 seasons, and somehow getting 4 wins from a team that lacked a single starting caliber CB on its entire roster last year. All that, and the man has a reputation that's gold amongst players around the league -- something that is very important to helping change how UFAs view the Bills organization as a whole.

 

The Bills were in chaos when St. Doug left. Despite winning 9 games, his departure blindsided this front office and new ownership group. The Pegulas were just trying to get their feet set for their first off season as NFL owners and suddenly needed to find a new HC, someone who would help bring stability to a franchise trying to get back to respectability. I never thought Ryan would be the hire, I never thought he'd be interested. But thankfully I was wrong because Ryan was the perfect guy for this moment in Bills' history.

 

And this doesn't even touch the fact that Ryan isn't alone. He brought in an all-star coaching staff, including an offensive coordinator who will be a HC before long. Sure, there's hype and flash with Ryan and the way he carries himself. He's a personality, and personality doesn't equate to more wins all by itself. Thankfully, Rex is more than just a big personality. He's an excellent coach and a better teacher. He's a great fit for this roster and this organization.

Thanks for your opinion. While I agree that this is probably the best defensive minded head coach the Bills have hired. I just don't see how that equates to fielding a top offense, and building a winning team.

 

I disagree that this years Bills team is ready to win now. They still have a questions at QB, and they still have the majority of the bad O line players on the roster from last year when the line was 30th overall, and 32nd against the run. This years team has a bunch of new weapons in RB, TE, WR, and yet there is still a huge "maybe" that everything will gel.

 

All star coaching staff...really? A lot of that 4-12 coaching staff found its way to Buffalo. Also, according to 49ers fans they wanted Roman out about as badly as Bills fans wanted Hackett gone.

 

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2014/11/28/jed-yorks-tweet-provokes-fans-to-call-for-greg-romans-job/

 

While I love the idea of a ground and pound offense in Buffalo. I'm not entirely sold on Roman being able to build a competitive offense with the current line talent on roster. The 49ers had three #1 picks, and all pros on that line before Roman even got to San Fran. Totally different story in Buffalo with players who can somewhat pass block, and most stink at run blocking. Then looking at last season with Colin Kaepernick at QB, and that Niner offense was ranked 25th in points, 20th in yards all the while being 4th in the NFL in rushing yards, and 9th in rushing attempts.

In 2013 Marrone proved that being #1 in rushing attempts, and #2 in rushing yards in the NFL doesn't equate to more then 6 wins if you can't control the line of scrimmage or clock.

 

Rex Ryan went 46-50 in his time with the Jets, and they didn't get better as they went. Ryan made a lot of promises in NYC that he didn't keep. Count me in as pessimistic until I see the Bills actually field a top offense to go with that all star defense.

 

 

On a side note Belichick went 11-5 in Cleveland in 1994, and the defense went south the next season after his DC Nick Saban left to take a college HCing job.

[Mr. WEO]

 

It's easy to explain. Rex is a Bill now so obviously he is great. Look back or remember when both the Gailey and Marrone hires were hailed as great right after they happened for other recent examples. I have my doubts about Rex based on past performance as I did with Marrone and Gailey. But only time will tell if Sexy Rexy turns it around or flames out. Until then enjoy the ride and give him your support is my advice. Rex is nothing if not entertaining.

 

 

 

This sums it up well