FireChan Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 he was 2-2 and only played 1/4 of his second year, to be fair. He had 10 games of experience, not a year. He looked worse in 2 of the games, but we don't know what would have happened if he played. I agreed with the benching at the time, I understand why marrone did it. But it's still unknown what his second year would have been like. He had a year of practice, TC, working on his throwing motion, looking at film, working with WR's, and studying the playbook.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 he was 2-2 and only played 1/4 of his second year, to be fair. He had 10 games of experience, not a year. He looked worse in 2 of the games, but we don't know what would have happened if he played. I agreed with the benching at the time, I understand why marrone did it. But it's still unknown what his second year would have been like. I hated it at the time and I hate it even more now. How many games have guys like Cassel or Orton "won"?
ddaryl Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Because his second year was worse than his rookie year. He went from decent to terrible. With a year of experience. Coaching and O scheme were the major problems Tell me what stupid OC decided to run a no huddle attack with a rookie QB and a bunch of rookie and 1 year WR's. What type of HC signs off on that stupidity then the whole OL debacle which was supposed to be Maronnes claim to fame regressed on his watch EJ will be a better QB this year. I'm positive about that.. Now whether he wins the camp competition remains to be seen, but I've got my money on EJ winning it
FireChan Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Again, a lot of offensive players regressed. People wanted Tannehill benched after the Bills game. Kyle Orton had basically the same QBR that EJ did as a rookie. The problem was bigger than EJ. And franchise QB Flcco had a worse game than EJ did against the Texans. Who cares about the other players? If Eric Wood is getting coached crappily, how does that relate to the QB coaching? Are those two positions related? Flacco won a Super Bowl. as he posted yada yada yada EJ was 2-2 for goodness sake. The has-been QB that replaced him was lucky to be 6-6 and lost to the lowly 2-12(sih) Raiders!!!! So now W-L matters. It didn't when comparing him to Flacco, but now it does. Because EJ did so much in those two victories. Edited April 2, 2015 by FireChan
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Who cares about the other players? If Eric Wood is getting coached crappily, how does that relate to the QB coaching? Are those two positions related? Flacco won a Super Bowl. So the fact that a 10 year vet like Orton had the same QBR that EJ did as rookie doesn't mean anything? That Spiller went from one of the best weapons in the NFL to nothing special? That Wood and Glenn went from considered good at their positions to struggling last year don't matter? You have to be the biggest Marrone fan on earth to not see a pattern.
Fixxxer Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Noone is giving up on Manuel but this year he needs to earn it. There is no excuses for him anymore. This is his third year in the league & this team is ready to win now. If he can't beat out Matt cassel & Tyron Taylor, he probably doesn't have much of a future in the NFL. True but in His second year in the league he threw for 63% completion %, $3,600 yards & 21 tds against 10 ints. Where EJ played 4 games in his 2nd year & was then benched for Kyle Orton. I am pretty sure the Ravens knew they had their franchise QB by the end of year 2. Don't bench EJ Manuel for Orton and these are his projected stats for the year. Att: 304 Comp: 524 Yards: 3352 Tds: 20 Ints: 12 with 58% completion. He could have done better or worse, we will never know.
FireChan Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 So the fact that a 10 year vet like Orton had the same QBR that EJ did as rookie doesn't mean anything? That Spiller went from one of the best weapons in the NFL to nothing special? That Wood and Glenn went from considered good at their positions to struggling last year don't matter? You have to be the biggest Marrone fan on earth to not see a pattern. Bad guards. Except CJ stinks, Wood is old, and EJ didn't play great. Provide the mechanism for the regression, please.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 So now W-L matters. It didn't when comparing him to Flacco, but now it does. Because EJ did so much in those two victories. YES W-L does matter and many times over who has more passing yards. FTR I don't think I compared EJ to Flacco.
The Wiz Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 So the fact that a 10 year vet like Orton had the same QBR that EJ did as rookie doesn't mean anything? That Spiller went from one of the best weapons in the NFL to nothing special? That Wood and Glenn went from considered good at their positions to struggling last year don't matter? You have to be the biggest Marrone fan on earth to not see a pattern. These are actually all EJ's fault. Orton had the same QBR and EJ's rookie year because he wasn't actually going to play last year but Marrone wasn't happy with his QB crop and gave Rico a call to see if he could throw the ball still. He was checked out for the last 4 games too which didn't help the qbr. Wood and Glenn were worse because they had to worry about EJ being behind center and didn't know what the plays were he was calling. Spiller got worse because Glenn and Wood were confused by EJ's erratic play calling ala Willie Beamen and they didn't know they were suppose to be blocking.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Who cares about the other players? If Eric Wood is getting coached crappily, how does that relate to the QB coaching? Are those two positions related? Flacco won a Super Bowl. So now W-L matters. It didn't when comparing him to Flacco, but now it does. Because EJ did so much in those two victories. *blink* Well, the quality of OL play is generally considered to have some relevance to the quality of play a QB can deliver. Do you really want to argue otherwise? I think Brady and Peyton Manning would disagree if so.... The strength of a team's running threat is also considered to have an impact on what sort of passing game they can successfully deliver. Do you really want to argue otherwise? Bad guards. Except CJ stinks, Wood is old, and EJ didn't play great. Provide the mechanism for the regression, please. Oh, wait now I see. It's "don't hassle me with no facts, Man!" time. (Yes, the guards were bad, but who left a bad OL in place game after game instead of changing things up as the Pats did after 3 games? Wood was in his 6th season; the average career for an OL is 10+ years and usually longer for centers. EJ only played 4 of the 12 games. The running game got even worse once EJ was benched, for all of our backs - every one had a poor year. CJ stinks so he signed by the Saints, because they're just stupid that way. etc etc) Edited April 2, 2015 by Hopeful
FireChan Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) *blink* Well, the quality of OL play is generally considered to have some relevance to the quality of play a QB can deliver. Do you really want to argue otherwise? I think Brady and Peyton Manning would disagree if so.... The strength of a team's running threat is also considered to have an impact on what sort of passing game they can successfully deliver. Do you really want to argue otherwise? Oh, wait now I see. It's "don't hassle me with no facts, Man!" time. The OL did EJ no favors, but he made plenty of mistakes on his own. You realize it works backwards right? Maybe we run the ball a little bit better if EJ plays better. The 90 different RB's Peyton and Brady have had would agree. It doesn't even matter because Biscuit isn't arguing that poor O-line play leads to poor QB play. He's arguing that poor QB coaching led to poor QB play. Which I asked him to show me. Edited April 2, 2015 by FireChan
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 for those Johnny Manziel fans http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/4/1/8328513/espns-chris-mortensen-browns-90-percent-done-with-manziel Will Johnny get another chance? ESPN's Chris Mortensen doesn't seem to think so.
Talley56 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Not sleeping just he needs to win the competition now... ^This I haven't read the article yet so maybe he explains this better but I don't think it's a matter of people sleeping on him as much as it is having confidence in him.
sir andrew Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 I truly believe that EJ can thrive in Roman's system. He fits the best into it, it seems. Can't wait!
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Coaching and O scheme were the major problems Tell me what stupid OC decided to run a no huddle attack with a rookie QB and a bunch of rookie and 1 year WR's. What type of HC signs off on that stupidity then the whole OL debacle which was supposed to be Maronnes claim to fame regressed on his watch EJ will be a better QB this year. I'm positive about that.. Now whether he wins the camp competition remains to be seen, but I've got my money on EJ winning it if EJ doesn't start this year, that mean's we're done with EJ officially and there's no turning back. And if that's the case then we have to draft a QB EARLY with our first or 2nd pick this year so we can develop him early and have him ready to compete next season.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 if EJ doesn't start this year, that mean's we're done with EJ officially and there's no turning back. And if that's the case then we have to draft a QB EARLY with our first or 2nd pick this year so we can develop him early and have him ready to compete next season. So you want to carry 4 QB's on our roster in case EJ isn't the starter this year?
YoloinOhio Posted April 2, 2015 Author Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) He had a year of practice, TC, working on his throwing motion, looking at film, working with WR's, and studying the playbook.that may be how you define "experience" but imo nothing compares to game experience. Regardless of why he didn't get the year of game experience, he got hurt, he got benched, the fact is that he does not have it. I don't think it is an excuse for him. He wasn't good enough to stay on the field last year. again, I agree with going to Orton when they did (for the short term, though in hindsight I do not know if it was the right decision for the long term). But he is very inexperienced for a 3rd year QB. I don't care how much time he got to throw in practice and look at film, that's not "experience" in my book. If others think he has 2 years of actual experience, that's fine, I do not agree. So when he is compared to guys who you think he should not be compared to (last year's rookies), that is why. They had similar (or more) game experience. To your manziel example, yes, I would expect him to be compared to winston, Mariota, and any other rookie QBs if he plays this year. He has less than 2 games of experience. Edited April 2, 2015 by YoloinOhio
moshermw Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 If EJ is on the Ravens for the past 4 years, does he see the field? There are people who are optimistic about Tyrod because he is an exceptional athlete with a decent arm who came out as a project and was given 4 years to learn without being tossed to the wolves. It also says something to me that he has the confidence to bet on himself and take less money for an opportunity to start instead of taking more money to follow his OC to Denver and back up Peyton Manning. Does that mean he is definitively better than anyone else on the team? No. But to say that the organization is better off if EJ wins than Tyrod is funny given they're practically the same age. And to hold the fact that he was a backup to Flacco for his entire rookie contract against him is just silly. I have been consistent in saying I will be happy if either young guy steps up and makes strides towards being a solid starter, and I maintain that, but I don't think it's right to write either off before we see them in the same system on the same field with the same players. Excellent Post. Typical Hokie.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) So you want to carry 4 QB's on our roster in case EJ isn't the starter this year? Won't cost much to cut ties with Tyrod and Tuel and just keep Cassel, Manuel as the backup, and the rookie as the 3rd string. Not really difficult. My point is that there should be a "competition" but EJ needs to come away as the clear cut winner if they're not ready to give up on him. If you don't start him this year, then he's officially done with the Bills and time to move on. There's no future at QB with Cassel, Tyrod and Tuel. Edited April 2, 2015 by QuoteTheRaven83
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Won't cost much to cut ties with Tyrod and Tuel and just keep Cassel, Manuel as the backup, and the rookie as the 3rd string. Not really difficult. So you think they signed Tyrod just to sign his replacement before he even practices with us? Or you're comfortable cutting our 2nd round pick before the season starts if he is beat out by the rest? Edited April 2, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13
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