Germanwings - One of the pilots locked out of cockpit?

[KD in CA]

I was surprised at the ability to lock out the access code on the door. I guess this is to prevent the hijacker from putting a knife to the throat of a flight attendant to gain access but as with a home security system it's easy to have an ambush code accomplish the same end.

[shrader]

I was surprised at the ability to lock out the access code on the door. I guess this is to prevent the hijacker from putting a knife to the throat of a flight attendant to gain access but as with a home security system it's easy to have an ambush code accomplish the same end.

Do the attendants even have access to the code? I can't see much purpose them knowing it.

[plenzmd1]

I was surprised to hear this morning that there are ax's on planes that are hidden for the passengers but the pilots know where they are. Costello on Meet the Press was talking about that this morning.

[Mr Info]

I was surprised to hear this morning that there are ax's on planes that are hidden for the passengers but the pilots know where they are. Costello on Meet the Press was talking about that this morning.

Thanks, I did not see MtP today.

 

It would seem there should be a more efficient solution to this, perhaps involving technology, than chopping down the cockpit door with an axe.

[Fan in San Diego]

Thanks, I did not see MtP today.

 

It would seem there should be a more efficient solution to this, perhaps involving technology, than chopping down the cockpit door with an axe.

This is definitely a catch 22 situation. On one hand the security door is meant to keep intruders out. It was never designed to keep the pilot out when co pilot goes suicidal. If you have some keypad to open the door. Then hijackers can hold a gun to the stewards head and say open it or die. The only solution I can think of is to have a remote entry lock. Where the air traffic controller can verify the situation and remotely unlock the door, if the situation warrants it.

[truth on hold]

DUESSELDORF, Germany (Reuters) - The German zpilot suspected of deliberately crashing a plane in the French Alps last week was treated for suicidal tendencies years ago before he received his pilot's license, German prosecutors said on Monday.

 

This was the first acknowledgement from German officials that the pilot, Andreas Lubitz, had suffered bouts of depression and it is likely to intensify a debate about how airlines screen and monitor their pilots.

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0MQ1WJ20150330?irpc=932

 

Beyond the administrative burden, the problem with requiring psychiatrists to register and report on their patients is that would discourage those who need help from getting it. On balance it may have greater costs in human lives.

[NoSaint]

the problem with requiring psychiatrists to register and report on their patients is that would discourage those who need help from getting it. On balance it may have greater costs in human lives.

its a tough spot with these things. i know the knee jerk is to find the quick fix to pilots going suicidal and locking their copilot out and crashing the plane, but on some level you have to ask yourself if that is a common enough problem with an easy enough fix that it makes sense to make changes.

 

in this instance it seems relatively rare, and like there isnt a catch all that doesnt create other problems. but im no expert on psych, or flight.

[IDBillzFan]

Question: if this guy killed those people with a gun, does anyone here think the discussion would be about his mental health?

 

I'm going with 'not a chance in hell.'

[mead107]

No Air Marshal on flight?

[DC Tom]

This is definitely a catch 22 situation. On one hand the security door is meant to keep intruders out. It was never designed to keep the pilot out when co pilot goes suicidal. If you have some keypad to open the door. Then hijackers can hold a gun to the stewards head and say open it or die. The only solution I can think of is to have a remote entry lock. Where the air traffic controller can verify the situation and remotely unlock the door, if the situation warrants it.

 

Ultimately, there is no perfect solution. Any security you can think of, I can think of a way around it. There's always going to be some risk somewhere in the process.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Pilot practiced crashing the plane on previous flight, prior to the actual crash:

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/91f0db7e8181462aa3aaa080e2630fca/french-investigators-release-report-germanwings-crash

 

[shrader]

How old was the pilot anyway? It sure does sound like he left the cockpit for pee breaks a lot. Did he have some bad indian food the night before or something?

[DC Tom]

Pilot practiced crashing the plane on previous flight, prior to the actual crash:

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/91f0db7e8181462aa3aaa080e2630fca/french-investigators-release-report-germanwings-crash

 

 

Key point that people seem to miss: "previous flight" was the same day, same plane, "same flight" in reverse - i.e. the preceding Dusseldorf-Barcelona flight.

 

The news keeps talking about it like he was rehearsing days or weeks before, as some part of a nefarious plot. It's more like it was on the first of two legs of the flight, and he was too hesitant to go through with it. Which really has to be freaking people out who took the first leg of that flight.

[Marv's Neighbor]

Pilot practiced crashing the plane on previous flight, prior to the actual crash:

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/91f0db7e8181462aa3aaa080e2630fca/french-investigators-release-report-germanwings-crash

 

Usually you practice to NOT crash the plane.

[DC Tom]

Usually you practice to NOT crash the plane.

 

Maybe that's what he was doing, but he just screwed it up that one last time.

[truth on hold]

 

Key point that people seem to miss: "previous flight" was the same day, same plane, "same flight" in reverse - i.e. the preceding Dusseldorf-Barcelona flight.

 

The news keeps talking about it like he was rehearsing days or weeks before, as some part of a nefarious plot. It's more like it was on the first of two legs of the flight, and he was too hesitant to go through with it. Which really has to be freaking people out who took the first leg of that flight.

Why wasn't it questioned the first time by the pilot and ATC?

[DC Tom]

Why wasn't it questioned the first time by the pilot and ATC?

 

Why don't you tell us?

 

I haven't heard a ridiculous conspiracy theory in a while; I could use a new one.

[truth on hold]

 

Why don't you tell us?

 

I haven't heard a ridiculous conspiracy theory in a while; I could use a new one.

Actually I was thinking incomptenece or lack of proper oversight tools. But now that you mention it you never know. You're the paranoid type, be a good avenue for you to look into

[Fan in San Diego]

Just thinking outside the box. If planes streamed real time flight data to the air controller. They could invent some control mechanism for the air traffic controller to take over control of the plane and prevent these crashes. Or 911 for that matter.

[plenzmd1]

How old was the pilot anyway? It sure does sound like he left the cockpit for pee breaks a lot. Did he have some bad indian food the night before or something?

Think the co pilot spiked his coffee with something. Again, I think I read that somewhere.

Just thinking outside the box. If planes streamed real time flight data to the air controller. They could invent some control mechanism for the air traffic controller to take over control of the plane and prevent these crashes. Or 911 for that matter.

Devils advocate... Is it easier to get a bad air controller in place than a bad pilot?