BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) all they have to do is open the cockpit door. Said Air Marshall should be "nearby". That or have some secure technology to open the door from the outside. Edited March 26, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
zow2 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 The co-pilot probably disabled the locking mechanism and then put the plane in a controlled descent. Maybe he even incapacitated himself so he wouldn't have to be awake and watch the final moments. It doesn't add up that a pilot who is (depressed) suicidal would take 150 people with him? Maybe he was secretly radicalized and this was terrorism. This whole scenario is truly terrifying to think about.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 They better be really right about this theory of a deliberate crash. Something tells me this is way too speculative to be hurling this accusation now.
shrader Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 They better be really right about this theory of a deliberate crash. Something tells me this is way too speculative to be hurling this accusation now. The explanation from the investigator was that you have to turn a dial several rotations to cause that much of an altitude change. That doesn't happen by accident. If you pass out and bump that dial, you're going to get maybe a half rotation at most. Maybe there is some explanation out there for how you could rotate that dial so much accidentally, but it would be pretty far fetched.
zow2 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 They better be really right about this theory of a deliberate crash. Something tells me this is way too speculative to be hurling this accusation now. I don't know what is speculative. I'm buying it...every last terrifying detail. Theu guy purposely crashed a plane into a mountain. Whether it's lone wolf terrorism or just a suicidal guy...is really the only question. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html Revealing data extracted from the black box voice recorder, he said the co-pilot - 28-year-old German Andreas Lubitz - locked his captain out after the senior officer left the cockpit. At that point, Lubitz used the flight managing system to put the plane into a descent, something that can only be done manually - and deliberately. He said: 'The intention was to destroy the plane. Death was instant. The plane hit the mountain at 700kmh (430mph). 'I don't think that the passengers realised what was happening until the last moments because on the recording you only hear the screams in the final seconds'.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 They better be really right about this theory of a deliberate crash. Something tells me this is way too speculative to be hurling this accusation now. that's why I posted the link. the rush to get the story out first often leads to mistakes. the retractions are buried and hardly seen and IF innocent the guys family gets harassed. I choose to wait some time before I make a decision to validate a story (if that makes sense) personal suicide does not necessarily = terrorism - even though the result is the same committing suicide is usually done to the individual
IDBillzFan Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 The guy purposely crashed a plane into a mountain. Whether it's lone wolf terrorism or just a suicidal guy...is really the only question. Here in the US I believe we simply refer to this as "workplace violence."
Jobu Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) that's why I posted the link. the rush to get the story out first often leads to mistakes. the retractions are buried and hardly seen and IF innocent the guys family gets harassed. I choose to wait some time before I make a decision to validate a story (if that makes sense) personal suicide does not necessarily = terrorism - even though the result is the same committing suicide is usually done to the individual The link you posted was 7 hours old. Additionally, US news sources are generally regurgitating overseas news stories on a topic like this. Take a look at the live link I posted from the Guardian. This was 6 minutes ago... A Spiegel reporter, Matthias Gebauer, is tweeting that friends of Lubitz said he had burnout or depression in 2009 and had to take time out from his pilot training. During the Lufthansa press conference there were questions as to why Lubitz interrupted his training, but there were no definitive answers. This about an hour ago... Lufthansa confirmed that co-pilot Andreas Lubitz appeared to have prevented the captain from re-entering the cabin after a toilet break, and placed the Airbus A320 into the dive that resulted in the crash that killed all 150 on board. Edited March 26, 2015 by Show Me The Baby
Marv's Neighbor Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Does anyone know what is the reference point for the gauges in the plane that measure altitude? Is it the ground below or is it sea level? Altimeters are always feet above sea level. There are also radio altimeters that provide feet above terrain.,, but the standard, in every plane, altimeter is feet above sea level. As I recall BUF is 700+/- feet above sea level. Altimeters also need to be set to current barometric pressure. On the ground you dial/set the barometric pressure into the altimeter, and you will see the field elevation on the instrument. Once you climb above 18000' everyone uses 29.92", so everyone is set to the same setting.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Show Me,... we still do not have the real reason WHY Unless he's left a message on the Black Box or a note at home saying why he did this it will remain speculation until a detailed investigation is done One would have expected a terrorists to leave or transmit a message of Die To the West before he hit the wall.
shrader Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Altimeters are always feet above sea level. There are also radio altimeters that provide feet above terrain.,, but the standard, in every plane, altimeter is feet above sea level. As I recall BUF is 700+/- feet above sea level. Altimeters also need to be set to current barometric pressure. On the ground you dial/set the barometric pressure into the altimeter, and you will see the field elevation on the instrument. Once you climb above 18000' everyone uses 29.92", so everyone is set to the same setting. I think I missed one piece in this explanation. If a plane is set to fly at 18000', does that mean it is 18000' feet above the ground or above sea level? In other words, if a plane over Buffalo is set at 18000' and a plane over Denver is also set at 18000', are they flying at the same level or is the Denver one higher (relative to sea level)? I'm just curious about if a plane has a programmed in descent if it would be approaching the ground faster if it was flying towards a mountainous area or if it was flying towards the ocean.
dpberr Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Much like the !@#$ that flew EgyptAir 990 into the Atlantic Ocean in 1999, you've got to really be one of the world's biggest, most complete !@#$s to take 149 other completely innocent people to their deaths during your suicide. Between the suicides, gross pilot error (Air France 447), and unanswered questions (Malyasia 370) the industry outside the US has some big problems with its pilots.
DC Tom Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Let's be clear, though - all we know is that the pilot got locked out of the flight deck, and the plane went into a steep but controlled descent and crashed with the copilot alone in the cockpit. That's all the evidence we have tells us - investigators may have more, but they're not sharing it. And last I heard, they don't have the data from the flight data recorder, just the voice recorder, so they don't have the direct info on what the control settings were. This is still just speculation. Good speculation, in my opinion...but hardly a solid fact at this point.
Fan in San Diego Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I read an article where the pilot in the cockpit could be heard breathing in a normal fashion right up to moment of impact.
Jobu Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Show Me,... we still do not have the real reason WHY Unless he's left a message on the Black Box or a note at home saying why he did this it will remain speculation until a detailed investigation is done One would have expected a terrorists to leave or transmit a message of Die To the West before he hit the wall. We may never get one. The fact that he purposefully put it into descent (which can only occur manually) and the fact that the door was switched to lockout (again another manual operation), really what else is there to know? The dude did not pass out, he intentionally put that bird into a mountain. The reason why he did it does not really matter anymore.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Let's be clear, though - all we know is that the pilot got locked out of the flight deck, and the plane went into a steep but controlled descent and crashed with the copilot alone in the cockpit. That's all the evidence we have tells us - investigators may have more, but they're not sharing it. And last I heard, they don't have the data from the flight data recorder, just the voice recorder, so they don't have the direct info on what the control settings were. This is still just speculation. Good speculation, in my opinion...but hardly a solid fact at this point. It's not speculation.
Jobu Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Here is some great reading if you get bored... http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/87168-german-wings-a320-crashed-23.html
DC Tom Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 It's not speculation. It is speculation, because they have incomplete data and they weren't in the cockpit. As last I heard, unless things have changed in the past 2 hours, they have no direct evidence of what the copilot did.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) It is speculation, because they have incomplete data and they weren't in the cockpit. As last I heard, unless things have changed in the past 2 hours, they have no direct evidence of what the copilot did. This is what there is. The plane was on autopilot when the pilot left the cabin. The pilot comes back and the door is locked, refused to open the door and there are recordings of him screaming to open the door, pilot trying to kick down the door etc. Autopilot is turned off and there is a manual descend when the pilot is locked out. The only sound of the co-pilot is him breathing "normally". There is no speculation that this was deliberate act to take the plane down. It's facts. Edited March 26, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Jobu Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) The prosecutor said the transcript showed that the captain was preparing a briefing for landing in Düsseldorf. The co-pilot’s answer, the prosecutor said, was “laconic.” The commanding pilot then asks the co-pilot to take over, and the noise of a seat backing up and a door closing can be heard. “At this stage, the co-pilot is in control, alone,” the prosecutor said. “It is when he is alone that the co-pilot manipulates the flight monitoring system to activate the descent of the plane.” The prosecutor said that this action could only have been “voluntary.” The control the co-pilot activated requires several turns, Mr. Robin said, and it could not have been turned to such a low altitude accidentally. The captain is heard pleading to get back into the cockpit, but the co-pilot, heard breathing normally until the plane crashes, does not react, Mr. Robin said. “You can hear the commanding pilot ask for access to the cockpit several times,” the prosecutor said. “He identifies himself, but the co-pilot does not provide any answer.” “You can hear human breathing in the cockpit up until the moment of impact,” he said, adding that the breathing did not indicate any health problem such as a heart attack. Passengers could be heard screaming before the crash, he said. Not sure what more evidence you need. Audio recordings are admissible as evidence in most courts. Edited March 26, 2015 by Show Me The Baby
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