Mr. WEO Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 The Pats were down 14 points when they pulled out that inegible cheating thing, that was "announced" seconds before the ball was snapped. It's pretty obvious why they had to resort to it. You and John Harbaugh can call it cheating until the cows come home--doesn't make it so. As Florio commented a the time: Is it deceptive, as Ravens coach John Harbaugh alleged? Sure it is. But so is a play-action pass, a draw play, a flea flicker, a statue of liberty, a lateral pass to a receiver who throws the ball to another receiver, the zone blitz, the fake blitz, the delayed blitz, every pre-snap look aimed at making the opponent think the play is something other than what it will be, a fake punt, a fake field goals, a surprise onside kick from conventional kick formation, and a punt returner pretending the ball is coming to him when it’s actually going to a guy left alone on the other side of the field. The play resulted in a first down., not the game winning TD. Harbaugh fell apart in the second half. Completely outcoached--and not on that single play.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) You and John Harbaugh can call it cheating until the cows come home--doesn't make it so. As Florio commented a the time: The play resulted in a first down., not the game winning TD. Harbaugh fell apart in the second half. Completely outcoached--and not on that single play. why are you ignoring the illegal plays following the "legal" deceptive play? NE*'s super fan WEO has a new sponsor Troll House Cookies Edited March 27, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
DC Tom Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 You and John Harbaugh can call it cheating until the cows come home--doesn't make it so. As Florio commented a the time: The play resulted in a first down., not the game winning TD. Harbaugh fell apart in the second half. Completely outcoached--and not on that single play. It's easy to be outcoached when your opposite number is allowed to play by a completely different set of rules.
Doc Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 You and John Harbaugh can call it cheating until the cows come home--doesn't make it so. As Florio commented a the time: The play resulted in a first down., not the game winning TD. Harbaugh fell apart in the second half. Completely outcoached--and not on that single play. Florio, LOL! And there's a difference between deception, which all teams use all the time, and substitution shenanigans, especially when the refs give the wrong signal. And the play resulted in a 19 yard gain to the Ravens' 5 yard line, thanks to the addition of a PF on the Ravens bench when they protested the play. And added to the deflated footballs...
Mr. WEO Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Florio, LOL! And there's a difference between deception, which all teams use all the time, and substitution shenanigans, especially when the refs give the wrong signal. And the play resulted in a 19 yard gain to the Ravens' 5 yard line, thanks to the addition of a PF on the Ravens bench when they protested the play. And added to the deflated footballs... The refs gave the wrong signal? And the Ravens coughed up a 2 TD haltime lead (and couldn't score in the second half themselves) because of a 19 yard play in the 3rd Q? The play was ingenious, not in the least because it also caused a pants around the ankles Harbaugh to cough up another 15 yards on a stupid personal foul. All in all, completely outcoached. Look, if Rex was the first to pull this stunt (agaisnt the pats, for instance!) this season, you wouldn't be posting any of this. No one would argue he was "cheating"--we would be hailing him as a genius! We both know this, so stop the posturing.
Doc Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 The refs gave the wrong signal? And the Ravens coughed up a 2 TD haltime lead (and couldn't score in the second half themselves) because of a 19 yard play in the 3rd Q? The play was ingenious, not in the least because it also caused a pants around the ankles Harbaugh to cough up another 15 yards on a stupid personal foul. All in all, completely outcoached. Look, if Rex was the first to pull this stunt (agaisnt the pats, for instance!) this season, you wouldn't be posting any of this. No one would argue he was "cheating"--we would be hailing him as a genius! We both know this, so stop the posturing. Ah, the old "if a Bills...." Maybe I would. But it still wouldn't not make it cheating and no doubt you would be calling it cheating. We both know this, so stop your posturing. And football is a game of inches and momentum. Any advantage by cheating, especially in a close game like that one, helps.
Mr. WEO Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Ah, the old "if a Bills...." Maybe I would. But it still wouldn't not make it cheating and no doubt you would be calling it cheating. We both know this, so stop your posturing. And football is a game of inches and momentum. Any advantage by cheating, especially in a close game like that one, helps. Why would I call it cheating? It wasn't. You keep saying it was but you are incorrect. No rule was broken. The proof is that there is now a rule agaisnt this. Harbaugh was outcoached plain and simple. "Momentum" didn't do that to him. And I've called spygate cheating and you know this. If the pats purposefully deflated balls to illegal PSI, that's cheating too. I have never claimed otherwise. No posturing there. You;re in a corner, stop painting.
Doc Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Why would I call it cheating? It wasn't. You keep saying it was but you are incorrect. No rule was broken. The proof is that there is now a rule agaisnt this. Harbaugh was outcoached plain and simple. "Momentum" didn't do that to him. And I've called spygate cheating and you know this. If the pats purposefully deflated balls to illegal PSI, that's cheating too. I have never claimed otherwise. No posturing there. You;re in a corner, stop painting. So then, if it's not cheating, why did they ban it at the league meetings? It's "ingenious" right? But good to see you finally on the record with the spygate and deflated balls cheating. Been a long time in the making.
Mr. WEO Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 So then, if it's not cheating, why did they ban it at the league meetings? It's "ingenious" right? But good to see you finally on the record with the spygate and deflated balls cheating. Been a long time in the making. It's cheating when you break a rule. If a bunch of guiys complain after that someone got an unfair advantage by applying all existing rules in a new but not incorrect fashion, they will vote for a change. The Colts crying back in '04 over the physical treatment the pats DBs gave them in the playoffs, and then in 2013 with the Seattle DBs tactics (legal at the time) resulted in the rule changes/reinterpretations which everyone here regularly complains have absolutely ruined the game. As for the DeflateGate stuff, I don't have to decide the legality of the rule that already exists. No point in stating the obvious. I have only questioned the real importance of it (like spygate). The spygate stuff I stated long ago-in fact I said I thought BB was crazy to do it after a letter warning ALL teams to cease the paractice went out before that season. You know this too-but, as usual, it hurts your narrative.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) It's cheating when you break a rule. If a bunch of guiys complain after that someone got an unfair advantage by applying all existing rules in a new but not incorrect fashion, they will vote for a change. why are you ignoring the illegal plays following the "legal" deceptive play? running them was against the rules and they got away with it. Brady mocked the ravens and NFL saying that teams should know the rules.... after the cheaters broke the rules ignoring this does not make them innocent Edited March 27, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
HOUSE Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 I find it interesting that league officials are always willing to change the rule AFTER FACT.
Beef Jerky Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 I find it interesting that league officials are always willing to change the rule AFTER FACT. If you haven't noticed that is how the world works...
Garranimal Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) why are you ignoring the illegal plays following the "legal" deceptive play? running them was against the rules and they got away with it. Brady mocked the ravens and NFL saying that teams should know the rules.... after the cheaters broke the rules ignoring this does not make them innocent So in "the comeback" game against Houston, when the Bills scored after the receiver (Reed or Beebe) was ineligible for stepping out of and back in bounds, was that cheating? Should we as Bills fans and the Bills organization be labeled cheaters for a call that wasn't made correctly by the refs? Cheating (holding, pushing off, picking) happens on nearly every single play.....it is all cheating. Or should they divide the rule book in infraction severity catagories.....oh wait, they already did! For the record, Homerun Throwback was not only trickery, it was illegal! Edited March 30, 2015 by Garranimal
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I'm sure there are other loopholes in BBs little black book. Hate or love it. The rules are the rules. If you're not breaking them, you are maximizing your advantage. If your not caught, you're not breaking them. Edited March 30, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) So in "the comeback" game against Houston, when the Bills scored after the receiver (Reed or Beebe) was ineligible for stepping out of and back in bounds, was that cheating? Should we as Bills fans and the Bills organization be labeled cheaters for a call that wasn't made correctly by the refs? Cheating (holding, pushing off, picking) happens on nearly every single play.....it is all cheating. Or should they divide the rule book in infraction severity catagories.....oh wait, they already did! For the record, Homerun Throwback was not only trickery, it was illegal! you want to discuss illegal plays Did Beebe intend to step out of bounds or was it happenstance? Don not pretend that Belicheat didn't know what he was doing. The genius was well aware of what the rule book said. He and Tommy flaunted it in our faces. They took advantage of a rule hardy ever used in football and exploited it. For the record, YES, Homerun Throwback was trickery, His foot was clearly behind that solid white line and the location of the ball when caught was at or slightly forward of the white line. Ergo and it was illegal as the pass was slightly forward! Edited March 30, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Garranimal Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Question - Did Beebe intend to step out of bounds? Don not pretend that Belicheat didn't know what he was doing. The genius was well aware of what the rule book said. He and Tommy flaunted it in our faces. They took advantage of a rule hardy ever used in football and exploited it. For the record, Homerun Throwback was trickery, and it was illegal as the pass was slightly forward! Do not go by the foot. go by the location of the ball. Bolded - Completely agree. The difference is I interpret what took place as being astute and using the rule book as a guide to what "can be" done rather than "what can't be" done. Anyone who has ever filed a tax return using an accountant or a tax attorney has done the same exact thing!
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) His foot was clearly behind that solid white line and the location of the ball when caught was at or slightly forward of the white line. blind ref Edited March 30, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Kelly the Dog Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Bolded - Completely agree. The difference is I interpret what took place as being astute and using the rule book as a guide to what "can be" done rather than "what can't be" done. Anyone who has ever filed a tax return using an accountant or a tax attorney has done the same exact thing! There is a big difference between gaining any advantage you can within the letter of the rule versus the spirit of the rule.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Bolded - Completely agree. The difference is I interpret what took place as being astute and using the rule book as a guide to what "can be" done rather than "what can't be" done. Anyone who has ever filed a tax return using an accountant or a tax attorney has done the same exact thing! I am not arguing the ineligible / eligible play. I am calling out the next play in the series where the ineligible / eligible should have left the field and did not.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) you want to discuss illegal plays Did Beebe intend to step out of bounds or was it happenstance? Don not pretend that Belicheat didn't know what he was doing. The genius was well aware of what the rule book said. He and Tommy flaunted it in our faces. They took advantage of a rule hardy ever used in football and exploited it. For the record, YES, Homerun Throwback was trickery, His foot was clearly behind that solid white line and the location of the ball when caught was at or slightly forward of the white line. Ergo and it was illegal as the pass was slightly forward! It was close, very close. Foot is irrelevant it's the ball that matters and didn't impact the result of the play. A complete lack of awareness and discipline by the special teams is what allowed this score. It could have been 5 yards backward and it still was an easy TD. I'd love to see the refs get less blame here and see more acceptance that wade just got out coached. Edited March 30, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood
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