the Bills new spread offense attack

[BackInDaDay]

it's become obvious that Greg Roman is building Rex a spread offense born out of the 'run first' variations he incorporated for Harbaugh while at Frisco. his success in translating A Smith's experience in Urban Meyer's Utah spread option offense into something familiar enough for him to run in the NFL, was critical in Smith's resurgence as an NFL QB. and after taking Smith as far as he could, he then employed the same idea of making another young QB comfortable, when he installed elements of the offense C.Kap had learned running Brian Polian's (yep - Bill's son) Pistol version of the spread option at Nevada.

 

although i'm not a fan, it's no surprise that Rex was working out B.Petty the other day. Baylor's Art Briles has been running a 'pass first' - Air Raid version of the spread down at Baylor with a lot of success. as a matter of fact, both Briles and West Virginia's Dana Holgorsen have sent recent QBs to the NFL, the latest being WV's G.Smith - when Rex chose him as the Jets QB of the future.

 

now, there's been a lot of talk about 'ground and pound' around here, and it's no fault of the fans or the team's media for repeating the chant - as that's how Rex has chosen to describe his offensive philosophy. but one shouldn't think of a spread offense running attack as three succesive double TE, FB led, dive plays. the pounding that takes place in a spread run game is usually being done to out-numbered, second level defenders.

 

this style of offense does have it's fair share of problems in the pros. as Roman and C.Kelly in Philly have discovered - it's difficult to execute many 'run first' spread offense plays in the NFL without the threat of the QB keeping the ball. personally, i believe this is what's kept Meyer out of the NFL - if he can't risk running his QB, then many of his bread and butter run options - whether it's his outside zone, inside zone, or inverted veer - become empty bluffs. Chip Kelly is running into this wall in Philly, just as Roman - to an extent, did in Frisco.

 

the best Roman can do is to take elements of the spread philosophy - primarily the idea of getting the ball to your most gifted players where there's a number advantage at the point of attack - and implement them to whatever degree of risk he and Rex are willing to take with their QB. the acquisitions of McCoy, Clay and Harvin are a means to this end - giving Roman the ability to design the QB out of the spread offense's numbers game. having more than enough talent to over match your opponent in the run game without incorporating your QB is essential in the pros. he now has the ability to answer a defense willing to put 7 or 8 in the box with a sprinkling of elements taken from a spread Air Raid attack using Watkins, Goodwin, Woods, and Easley or Hogan - along with Harvin.

 

i am concerned with the lack of athleticism on our O line. much of what can be run without the QB - counter trey, power sweeps - require trap and pull techniques that will challenge our current roster of guards. i'm under the impression that picking up Felton gives Roman an alternative in his blocking schemes, should we go to battle with what we've got. i'm sure there will be a lot of tinkering in camp, and perhaps into the season, before Roman and Cromer can come up with a nice blend of personnel packages that get the job done, without tipping things off.

 

as far as the QB situation goes, Roman will build an offense that takes as much pressure off the QB position as possible, but this is the NFL., and QBs have to make plays when they present themselves. the fact that neither Cassel, Manuel or Taylor came from collegiate spread offenses puts them all on even footing in that regard - but you can't dismiss what Cassel's years of experience bring - including the fact that his most prolific season was under Belichik in NE, after Belichik and Meyer got chummy, and started swapping strategies. but i'm sure in Cassel's time in the pros, he's seen his fair share of spread concepts in multiple stops. also, and not too surprisingly, considering the proliferation of spread offensive philosphies in college, is the fact that Tuel was coached for a year at Washington State by the man who taught both Briles and Holgorsen the Air Raid spread offense - Mike Leach. that may help Tuel pick up some of it's concepts quickly, but i don't think Roman will install enough of it, that it will be a factor in the QB competition - but you never know.

 

so i do believe our base O will be what's commonly referred to as spread offense, and that it will definitely try to spread out the front six in those heavy nickle defenses (335/425) being discussed elsewhere - in order to run through them. it will have a 'run first' philosophy with enough weapons to attack however the defense responds. it will also employ some risk by exposing our QBs to limited contact, but only enough to establish the threat of the QB as a runner - to set up some spread option plays.

 

it should be fun to see how everything comes together.

 

[Ghilley]

Anyone looks good in this car

[NastyNateSoldiers]

If we go spread Ty is the best option at QB.

[nucci]

If we go spread Ty is the best option at QB.

no, he's not.

[habes1280]

This is insightful. Thanks for posting it.

[bowery4]

The weakness you pointed out to the running spread on the pros is or can be balanced a bit by running a true spread 5 wide at times, like Chan was too fond of. I really hate an empty back field but we do have the WR talents to do it maybe. I am hoping Cassle can read quickly and react like Fitz did. Funny thing Fitz would be a decent run 1st run spread QB in my eyes, he is a decent runner and even if he takes a hit is pretty good at staying healthy.

 

Another thought is really playing wide. There was a HS or college team (sorry I forget) that was having a big impact with playing receivers all the way to the side line and actually spreading the inside line and TE slot guys out. sort of like the opposite of Maroones plan (Bunching up the lanes. You would need faster OL men but it intrigues me as a change up anyway. You could always audible or just shift out of it too. I have no idea if our staff is offensively imaginative though really.I feel not really. I know Rex has his moments of D so far as trying new strategies though,

[Nanker]

ithinkimgoingtostopcapitalizingmywordsandwhattheheckillremoveallspacesfrombetweenwordstooandjustthinkilltryoutallpunctuationalltogetherbecauseitmakesforaneasierread

[1billsfan]

it's become obvious that Greg Roman is building Rex a spread offense born out of the 'run first' variations he incorporated for Harbaugh while at Frisco. his success in translating A Smith's experience in Urban Meyer's Utah spread option offense into something familiar enough for him to run in the NFL, was critical in Smith's resurgence as an NFL QB. and after taking Smith as far as he could, he then employed the same idea of making another young QB comfortable, when he installed elements of the offense C.Kap had learned running Brian Polian's (yep - Bill's son) Pistol version of the spread option at Nevada.

 

although i'm not a fan, it's no surprise that Rex was working out B.Petty the other day. Baylor's Art Briles has been running a 'pass first' - Air Raid version of the spread down at Baylor with a lot of success. as a matter of fact, both Briles and West Virginia's Dana Holgorsen have sent recent QBs to the NFL, the latest being WV's G.Smith - when Rex chose him as the Jets QB of the future.

 

now, there's been a lot of talk about 'ground and pound' around here, and it's no fault of the fans or the team's media for repeating the chant - as that's how Rex has chosen to describe his offensive philosophy. but one shouldn't think of a spread offense running attack as three succesive double TE, FB led, dive plays. the pounding that takes place in a spread run game is usually being done to out-numbered, second level defenders.

 

this style of offense does have it's fair share of problems in the pros. as Roman and C.Kelly in Philly have discovered - it's difficult to execute many 'run first' spread offense plays in the NFL without the threat of the QB keeping the ball. personally, i believe this is what's kept Meyer out of the NFL - if he can't risk running his QB, then many of his bread and butter run options - whether it's his outside zone, inside zone, or inverted veer - become empty bluffs. Chip Kelly is running into this wall in Philly, just as Roman - to an extent, did in Frisco.

 

the best Roman can do is to take elements of the spread philosophy - primarily the idea of getting the ball to your most gifted players where there's a number advantage at the point of attack - and implement them to whatever degree of risk he and Rex are willing to take with their QB. the acquisitions of McCoy, Clay and Harvin are a means to this end - giving Roman the ability to design the QB out of the spread offense's numbers game. having more than enough talent to over match your opponent in the run game without incorporating your QB is essential in the pros. he now has the ability to answer a defense willing to put 7 or 8 in the box with a sprinkling of elements taken from a spread Air Raid attack using Watkins, Goodwin, Woods, and Easley or Hogan - along with Harvin.

 

i am concerned with the lack of athleticism on our O line. much of what can be run without the QB - counter trey, power sweeps - require trap and pull techniques that will challenge our current roster of guards. i'm under the impression that picking up Felton gives Roman an alternative in his blocking schemes, should we go to battle with what we've got. i'm sure there will be a lot of tinkering in camp, and perhaps into the season, before Roman and Cromer can come up with a nice blend of personnel packages that get the job done, without tipping things off.

 

as far as the QB situation goes, Roman will build an offense that takes as much pressure off the QB position as possible, but this is the NFL., and QBs have to make plays when they present themselves. the fact that neither Cassel, Manuel or Taylor came from collegiate spread offenses puts them all on even footing in that regard - but you can't dismiss what Cassel's years of experience bring - including the fact that his most prolific season was under Belichik in NE, after Belichik and Meyer got chummy, and started swapping strategies. but i'm sure in Cassel's time in the pros, he's seen his fair share of spread concepts in multiple stops. also, and not too surprisingly, considering the proliferation of spread offensive philosphies in college, is the fact that Tuel was coached for a year at Washington State by the man who taught both Briles and Holgorsen the Air Raid spread offense - Mike Leach. that may help Tuel pick up some of it's concepts quickly, but i don't think Roman will install enough of it, that it will be a factor in the QB competition - but you never know.

 

so i do believe our base O will be what's commonly referred to as spread offense, and that it will definitely try to spread out the front six in those heavy nickle defenses (335/425) being discussed elsewhere - in order to run through them. it will have a 'run first' philosophy with enough weapons to attack however the defense responds. it will also employ some risk by exposing our QBs to limited contact, but only enough to establish the threat of the QB as a runner - to set up some spread option plays.

 

it should be fun to see how everything comes together.

 

 

EJ is going to be the starter. I think it's probably very long odds that Cassel will be able to beat him out for the job seeing how he doesn't bring anything more to the table than EJ other than experience. Manuel has speed, size and mobility that Cassel can't offer yet probably makes Roman drool thinking about the possibilities of using Manuel's running skills in conjunction with the elite skill players they have now.

 

IMO Roman will pick Manuel over Cassel just like he picked Kaepernick over Smith.

[CSBill]

 

EJ is going to be the starter. I think it's probably very long odds that Cassel will be able to beat him out for the job seeing how he doesn't bring anything more to the table than EJ other than experience. Manuel has speed, size and mobility that Cassel can't offer yet probably makes Roman drool thinking about the possibilities of using Manuel's running skills in conjunction with the elite skill players they have now.

 

IMO Roman will pick Manuel over Cassel just like he picked Kaepernick over Smith.

agree

[BuffaloHokie13]

The weakness you pointed out to the running spread on the pros is or can be balanced a bit by running a true spread 5 wide at times, like Chan was too fond of. I really hate an empty back field but we do have the WR talents to do it maybe. I am hoping Cassle can read quickly and react like Fitz did. Funny thing Fitz would be a decent run 1st run spread QB in my eyes, he is a decent runner and even if he takes a hit is pretty good at staying healthy.

 

Another thought is really playing wide. There was a HS or college team (sorry I forget) that was having a big impact with playing receivers all the way to the side line and actually spreading the inside line and TE slot guys out. sort of like the opposite of Maroones plan (Bunching up the lanes. You would need faster OL men but it intrigues me as a change up anyway. You could always audible or just shift out of it too. I have no idea if our staff is offensively imaginative though really.I feel not really. I know Rex has his moments of D so far as trying new strategies though,

Knowing Roman, our 5 wide sets will start as traditional looking single back sets and then Clay and McCoy will motion out to the slots to meet Watkins, Woods, and Harvin

[YoloinOhio]

it's become obvious that Greg Roman is building Rex a spread offense born out of the 'run first' variations he incorporated for Harbaugh while at Frisco. his success in translating A Smith's experience in Urban Meyer's Utah spread option offense into something familiar enough for him to run in the NFL, was critical in Smith's resurgence as an NFL QB. and after taking Smith as far as he could, he then employed the same idea of making another young QB comfortable, when he installed elements of the offense C.Kap had learned running Brian Polian's (yep - Bill's son) Pistol version of the spread option at Nevada.

the impression that picking up Felton gives Roman an alternative in his blocking schemes, should we go to battle with what we've got. i'm sure there will be a lot of tinkering in camp, and perhaps into the season, before Roman and Cromer can come up with a nice blend of personnel packages that get the job done, without tipping things off. [/size]

 

 

 

not that it is all that significant to your post, but just FYI Kaepernick didn't play for Brian Polian at Nevada. He played for Chris Ault. Polian doesn't have an "offense" - he's a ST coach- turned- HC. He was still at ND and Stanford during the time Kaep was at Nevada. Ironically though, Polian did coach with Roman at Stanford and they played together in college at JCU. Edited March 22, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[Luka]

Knowing Roman, our 5 wide sets will start as traditional looking single back sets and then Clay and McCoy will motion out to the slots to meet Watkins, Woods, and Harvin

 

I think we'll also see some McCoy/Harvin backfields as well, where one or both of them motion out.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

What an awesome post; great insight.

[peterpan]

also SF did not run a spread offense when smith was there. They didn't go full boar into it until kaeps first full season as starter.

[bonechiller]

Nice breakdown/analysis of what we might see.

[K D]

While the personnel and the talent call for a spread look, most of Roman's run plays are big on big (iso, counter, dive, trap). He likes to use the fullback and use motion a lot to try and give the defense different looks. He might start out with a spread look but then motion to a power I. Watch a SF game. They put the power in power running. This is something McCoy isn't known for. He likes to dance in the hole like CJ. Thats one of the reasons why Chip wanted to get rid of him. He wants someone that is going to hit the hole full steam ahead (that's why they went after Gore and then Murray). That's why I'm confused about why the Bills went after McCoy. He has always been a zone read RB. He has never run behind a FB. What makes them think he's going to be successful in Roman's offense? Unless like you say they are going to work out of a spread look and thus abandon his typical power running game. I'll be interested to see how it plays out.

[Lurker]

The K-Gun was a variation of this, with the obvious (enormous) difference in the threat the QB posed.

 

Thurman's sucess running out of the shotgun was predicated largely by the inability of teams to put eight men in the box, giving him ample running lanes once he got through the LOS.

 

If we get just average QB play with the receiving options we now have, teams won't be able to focus on Shady and he could have a lot of success based on his second level running ability...

[Green Lightning]

Props to the OP for a great football discussion thread. The sophisticated spread run first offense does speak to a QB that is a real threat to run. That would point to EJ. But it is somewhat perplexing that they sought out and signed Cassel. Why pick a veteran mentor that has a 180° different game than the starter? By adding all those playmakers, they have to know that there is only one ball and Shady, Percy, Woods, Sammy and Clay are going to want it. So just maybe they are going to opt for a QB who can deliver the ball and not be another designated carrier of it.

[K D]

Props to the OP for a great football discussion thread. The sophisticated spread run first offense does speak to a QB that is a real threat to run. That would point to EJ. But it is somewhat perplexing that they sought out and signed Cassel. Why pick a veteran mentor that has a 180° different game than the starter? By adding all those playmakers, they have to know that there is only one ball and Shady, Percy, Woods, Sammy and Clay are going to want it. So just maybe they are going to opt for a QB who can deliver the ball and not be another designated carrier of it.

Right, and because of that and Roman's past as a power running coordinator, I doubt we will see a spread running attack as the base offense. There will surely be a package for it if EJ or Tyrod are in the game, but as you stated it won't work with Cassel because he's not a threat to keep the ball and run and EJ has not proven that he can do this successfully either so far at this level

[BackInDaDay]

not that it is all that significant to your post, but just FYI Kaepernick didn't play for Brian Polian at Nevada. He played for Chris Ault. Polian doesn't have an "offense" - he's a ST coach- turned- HC. He was still at ND and Stanford during the time Kaep was at Nevada. Ironically though, Polian did coach with Roman at Stanford and they played together in college at JCU.

yes - my bad.. i was trying to research which players learned from what coach, and picked up Polian rather than the old coach, Ault. hopefully, i didn't make too many factual errors.. i didn't mean for it to become a 'gonzo' post.