Nanker Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Is Spikes still at the Lafayette and, if so, what does this all mean? He's sleeping it off, and getting room service. I follow this stuff non stop so I have a good idea So you're not nonchalant about it then.
GG Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Um...lol. That's Rex's base defense. I guess you better tell Rex he runs a 4-3 because he's been confused this whole time. Like I said, the end with his hand in the ground is an OLB. You won't know what he's doing until the ball is snapped. He might be back peddling into coverage. Forget the 3-4 vs 4-3 distinction - who are the front 7 that Ryan will line up on opening day? I count 6 that are definites. So are you saying that there's a bigger role for Lawson than for Spikes in this defense? Base Jets D: Richardson, Harrison, Wilkerson, Babin, Harris, Pace, Davis Edited March 26, 2015 by GG
K D Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Forget the 3-4 vs 4-3 distinction - who are the front 7 that Ryan will line up on opening day? I count 6 that are definites. So are you saying that there's a bigger role for Lawson than for Spikes in this defense? This might help illustrate the base defense. Keep in mind this is the base, which is only used probably 50% of the time in the pass happy NFL. They will probably play a lot of Nickel vs a team like the Pats but we won't get into that. That would basically be swapping in an extra DB. We have Mario as the "Rush" OLB and Hughes or Lawson at the "Sam." The "Mike" will be Preston Brown or Spikes if they decide to bring him back. Bradham is the "Jack." The 3 down lineman will be Dareus and Kyle and the other spot is going to depend on down and distance and will probably be interchangeable but it will most likely be Wynn. Nickel package might look something like this... ^oops sorry have to click it to make it viewable Edited March 26, 2015 by kdiggz
GG Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 This might help illustrate the base defense. Keep in mind this is the base, which is only used probably 50% of the time in the pass happy NFL. They will probably play a lot of Nickel vs a team like the Pats but we won't get into that. That would basically be swapping in an extra DB. We have Mario as the "Rush" OLB and Hughes or Lawson at the "Sam." The "Mike" will be Preston Brown or Spikes if they decide to bring him back. Bradham is the "Jack." The 3 down lineman will be Dareus and Kyle and the other spot is going to depend on down and distance and will probably be interchangeable but it will most likely be Wynn. Nickel package might look something like this... bufpersonnel.jpg ^oops sorry have to click it to make it viewable Which is precisely why Bills aren't looking to give Spikes a contract that's in line with an every down backer. But that's not the same as saying that there's no role for Spikes in Ryan's defense.
K D Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Which is precisely why Bills aren't looking to give Spikes a contract that's in line with an every down backer. But that's not the same as saying that there's no role for Spikes in Ryan's defense. Yes that's true. I'm actually for it. He can play the Preston Brown spot, he's just not the ideal fit. But at a lower contract price it would make sense to add some depth at that position. And Spikes is a great vocal leader on the team. And short yardage he is going to be lights out. He's just not an every down player so he if he wants to come back he can't expect to be paid like one
billsfan1959 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Maybe and maybe that's why Spikes said this: "Of course I'd like to go back, but you know how it goes in this league," Spikes said. "Guys with a new staff they like their guys and everybody understands that." Whaley told Spikes that he should go out and find a team with a scheme that fits his talents better because we would only use him (and pay him) as a 2-down LB to add depth. Spikes hasn't had any interest and so Whaley said at the owner's meetings that he would give Spikes a call next week to discuss him coming back. It's going to be at a very low price or not at all though. This idea that Ryan will run a 3-4 is incredibly simplistic. Ryan's strength is his ability to draw from many different schemes and to play to the strengths of the players he has. I think Ryan would prefer to have defensive players that can play all three downs and that can adapt to which ever scheme he decides to employ in any given situation. I think that Whaley understands that Spikes would be utilized in a more limited role, and, to a certain extent, you are right that Whaley is allowing Spikes to look for a "better fit for his talents," particularly at the salary Spikes wants. However, that is different than saying he doesn't fit Ryan's "scheme." I think Whaley would sign Spikes for the right price and I have no doubt that Ryan would find a way to use Spikes in a way that maximizes his skills. That was my point with David Harris. He is very similar to Spikes in terms of skill set, and Ryan found a way to utilize his talents.
NoSaint Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Yes that's true. I'm actually for it. He can play the Preston Brown spot, he's just not the ideal fit. But at a lower contract price it would make sense to add some depth at that position. And Spikes is a great vocal leader on the team. And short yardage he is going to be lights out. He's just not an every down player so he if he wants to come back he can't expect to be paid like one it would be interesting to see how his defacto captain/vocal leader/heart and soul of the defense role would be effected if he came back under the oft discussed 1 year, league minimum, very part time role that some discuss. im having a hard time thinking of a similar player/role
K D Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 This idea that Ryan will run a 3-4 is incredibly simplistic. Ryan's strength is his ability to draw from many different schemes and to play to the strengths of the players he has. I think Ryan would prefer to have defensive players that can play all three downs and that can adapt to which ever scheme he decides to employ in any given situation. I think that Whaley understands that Spikes would be utilized in a more limited role, and, to a certain extent, you are right that Whaley is allowing Spikes to look for a "better fit for his talents," particularly at the salary Spikes wants. However, that is different than saying he doesn't fit Ryan's "scheme." I think Whaley would sign Spikes for the right price and I have no doubt that Ryan would find a way to use Spikes in a way that maximizes his skills. That was my point with David Harris. He is very similar to Spikes in terms of skill set, and Ryan found a way to utilize his talents. Right. I too feel that way. I guess I was trying to explain why he wasn't a good fit and thus would be de-valued in this defense vs a base 4-3. But at the right price I'm sure they would love to have him. If they are going to start talks with him as Whaley suggested then Spikes must be interested in coming back at this lower priced role. I'm sure Rex can think of ways to use him so it would be win-win for us if the price is right! it would be interesting to see how his defacto captain/vocal leader/heart and soul of the defense role would be effected if he came back under the oft discussed 1 year, league minimum, very part time role that some discuss. im having a hard time thinking of a similar player/role true... he still could be on the field a lot on 1st and 2nd downs and short yardage though. Cory Graham was a captain last year and before McLovin got hurt he wasn't a starter. Fred will have a similar role on the team this year too. I don't really follow other teams close enough to be able to think of other players in similar roles off the top of my head, but I'm sure a lot of the leadership stuff can continue off the field and in the locker room even if the player isn't on the field a lot of the time
billsfan1959 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Right. I too feel that way. I guess I was trying to explain why he wasn't a good fit and thus would be de-valued in this defense vs a base 4-3. But at the right price I'm sure they would love to have him. If they are going to start talks with him as Whaley suggested then Spikes must be interested in coming back at this lower priced role. I'm sure Rex can think of ways to use him so it would be win-win for us if the price is right! true... he still could be on the field a lot on 1st and 2nd downs and short yardage though. Cory Graham was a captain last year and before McLovin got hurt he wasn't a starter. Fred will have a similar role on the team this year too. I don't really follow other teams close enough to be able to think of other players in similar roles off the top of my head, but I'm sure a lot of the leadership stuff can continue off the field and in the locker room even if the player isn't on the field a lot of the time I kinda figured we were saying something similar
Ontario51 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 This might help illustrate the base defense. Keep in mind this is the base, which is only used probably 50% of the time in the pass happy NFL. They will probably play a lot of Nickel vs a team like the Pats but we won't get into that. That would basically be swapping in an extra DB. We have Mario as the "Rush" OLB and Hughes or Lawson at the "Sam." The "Mike" will be Preston Brown or Spikes if they decide to bring him back. Bradham is the "Jack." The 3 down lineman will be Dareus and Kyle and the other spot is going to depend on down and distance and will probably be interchangeable but it will most likely be Wynn. Nickel package might look something like this... bufpersonnel.jpg ^oops sorry have to click it to make it viewable Hey Mayor this is good stuff you are providing. Keep Spikes he makes big plays.
johnwalter Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 judging by this guy's twitter, he really, really wants to be back in a bills uniform. perhaps he'd be willing to take a discount to stay in buffalo (probably the only way we could afford him as a role-player, albeit a locker room guy) - maybe whaley's counting on that.
KOKBILLS Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Which is precisely why Bills aren't looking to give Spikes a contract that's in line with an every down backer. But that's not the same as saying that there's no role for Spikes in Ryan's defense. Exactly...
billsfan89 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 judging by this guy's twitter, he really, really wants to be back in a bills uniform. perhaps he'd be willing to take a discount to stay in buffalo (probably the only way we could afford him as a role-player, albeit a locker room guy) - maybe whaley's counting on that. I think the Bills are also the only team to give him a concrete contract offer. Seems like only Buffalo is interested in him with numbers to offer. Spikes will probably sign a one year deal for 2+ million and take his chances on the market again next year.
johnwalter Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I think the Bills are also the only team to give him a concrete contract offer. Seems like only Buffalo is interested in him with numbers to offer. Spikes will probably sign a one year deal for 2+ million and take his chances on the market again next year. i was almost thinking the opposite: that he had drawn interest from others but is still holding out hoping for an offer from the bills that he can stomach (because he wants to stay so badly - as evidenced by his twitter).
billsfan89 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 i was almost thinking the opposite: that he had drawn interest from others but is still holding out hoping for an offer from the bills that he can stomach (because he wants to stay so badly - as evidenced by his twitter). I think the market for him as a starter isn't there. He wants starter money (3+ million a year 4-5 years with a guaranteed in the 1st and 2nd year) and starter playing time. No team has really offered him that. The Bills probably have been talking to him about being a 1-2 down LB on a one year deal for over 2 million. I think he feels that's the best he is going to get with his skill set being less in demand in a passing league.
YoloinOhio Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) i was almost thinking the opposite: that he had drawn interest from others but is still holding out hoping for an offer from the bills that he can stomach (because he wants to stay so badly - as evidenced by his twitter). i agree that I get the feeling he wants to play for the bills. I have see over the past few days that there is interest from the Vikings and Niners, but not sure if he's visited. The ILB market has been pretty bad. Mason Foster just signed with the Bears this week. I personally think it would be wise to bring him back. We are thin at LB and I think he has a role. He was elected a captain last year too, and is only 27. He is also very close with Harvin and that doesn't hurt with that investment that he'd have a comfort level with at least one guy. Most importantly, I think the guy can play. And would be used correctly in this scheme. Edited March 26, 2015 by YoloinOhio
White Linen Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) This might help illustrate the base defense. Keep in mind this is the base, which is only used probably 50% of the time in the pass happy NFL. They will probably play a lot of Nickel vs a team like the Pats but we won't get into that. That would basically be swapping in an extra DB. We have Mario as the "Rush" OLB and Hughes or Lawson at the "Sam." The "Mike" will be Preston Brown or Spikes if they decide to bring him back. Bradham is the "Jack." The 3 down lineman will be Dareus and Kyle and the other spot is going to depend on down and distance and will probably be interchangeable but it will most likely be Wynn. Nickel package might look something like this... bufpersonnel.jpg ^oops sorry have to click it to make it viewable I must be in the minority by thinking the 295lb Mario Williams will be the 3rd down lineman and not the rush OLB. I see him in the exact role as Watt. He's the 3rd down lineman with his hand in the dirt that in certain formations may be asked to drop back - however this won't be by our choice this will because the offense exploits Mario and we'll have to make an adjustment. His job should be to rush the passer on every passing down, help with the inside rush, and contain the outside run. I see Spikes and Brown in the middle with Bradham and Hughes as the OLB's. Hughes is the rush OLB and when they switch to the 4-3 it will look very similar to last year. Edited March 26, 2015 by Triple Threat
Big C Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 I get the feeling that Spikes has been in the plans the whole time, but has been waiting on the FO to get everything else in order first. His responses to some questions in NFLN gave me the impression that he was not looking for a job.
MDH Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 it would be interesting to see how his defacto captain/vocal leader/heart and soul of the defense role would be effected if he came back under the oft discussed 1 year, league minimum, very part time role that some discuss. im having a hard time thinking of a similar player/role Look no farther than the offensive side of the ball and Fred Jackson. Not the one year, league minimum part but the part time player/heart and soul aspects.
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