Inside The Mind Of Islam's False Prophet Muhammad

[Justice]

Two scenes from movies come to mind for me when dealing with 3rd on this FGM issue. I feel like the judge in "My Cousin Vinny" when he was trying to get Pesci to say guilty or not-guilty. The other is Samuel L. in "Pulp Fiction" when he dared the kid to say "what" again.

[3rdnlng]

Two scenes from movies come to mind for me when dealing with 3rd on this FGM issue. I feel like the judge in "My Cousin Vinny" when he was trying to get Pesci to say guilty or not-guilty. The other is Samuel L. in "Pulp Fiction" when he dared the kid to say "what" again.

So, now I'm the one having a tough time making up his mind? Is FGM permitted or not in the Muslim religion? Regardless as to your answer to that, should it be acceptable?

[Justice]

So, now I'm the one having a tough time making up his mind? Is FGM permitted or not in the Muslim religion? Regardless as to your answer to that, should it be acceptable?

Yes. You're the one having the tough time. Extrememy tough. This all started by you saying I said it was forbidden. I challenged you to produce the proof I said it. You didn't/couldn't. You're trying to save face by cherry picking my first statement and entirely ignoring the second. I said the Quran doesn't give you permission to do so. That doesn't mean I said it's forbidden.

 

It's not prohibited. It's not forbidden. I never said it was. It's not mentioned at all. If it's not mentioned in the Quran and the Hadiths then no one has the authority to make it so.

 

No it shouldn't. It sounds awful.

[DC Tom]

 

It's beyond tribalism in the Arab-influenced world, because that wouldn't explain Africa and rest of Asia. Yet the patterns are very similar, and of course tribalism plays a major role, but tribalism does not explain the influx of foreign fighters from the west. How does a British born youth with no ancestral ties to Syrian lands identify with ISIS?

 

Doubly so in dealing with ISIS, which is probably the only current conflict between the West and Islamic extremists that doesn't have a tribal basis...because so many of the ISIS jihadists are imported, not native, which makes it a damn near perfect situation for reinforcing the exact "they are not your tribe" distinctions I'm talking about.

 

If you're going to reply to my posts, read them first. Don't be a gatorman.

[Justice]

"Once again, the communication process has broken down" lol

Edited April 17, 2015 by Justice

[3rdnlng]

Yes. You're the one having the tough time. Extrememy tough. This all started by you saying I said it was forbidden. I challenged you to produce the proof I said it. You didn't/couldn't. You're trying to save face by cherry picking my first statement and entirely ignoring the second. I said the Quran doesn't give you permission to do so. That doesn't mean I said it's forbidden.

 

It's not prohibited. It's not forbidden. I never said it was. It's not mentioned at all. If it's not mentioned in the Quran and the Hadiths then no one has the authority to make it so.

 

No it shouldn't. It sounds awful.

You said that FGM is not permitted in Islam. What makes it not permitted? I know you are not this dumb. Were you trying to say that the Koran does not give specific permission or demand that it be done? I'm trying to make sense of what you are saying. "Not permitted" and "forbidden" mean the same thing in the English language.

[GG]

If you're going to reply to my posts, read them first. Don't be a gatorman.

 

And tribalism doesn't explain Al Qeda or any other jihadist recruiting effort, as much as religious sects do. ISIS is just the latest flavor of the day.

[Justice]

You said that FGM is not permitted in Islam. What makes it not permitted? I know you are not this dumb. Were you trying to say that the Koran does not give specific permission or demand that it be done? I'm trying to make sense of what you are saying. "Not permitted" and "forbidden" mean the same thing in the English language.

Holy cow! Did you even read what I've said over and over and over again?

 

"Were you trying to say that the Koran does not give specific permission or demand that it be done?"-3rd

 

Uh yeah! I've made that clear already. More than once, too, and I can prove it. You're truly embarrassing yourself at this point, and don't give me no BS about you're just messing with me, either.

[Justice]

I suggest that you go back and read post #'s 24, 34, 44, 80, 82, 83, 90, 92 and 98 of this thread. You know posts that you must have already read since you were involved in the conversation. Justice has made it clear that he believes that killing for apostasy is justifiable if the person doesn't leave the religion quietly. He also admits that he doesn't want to know how or when it is done. If that's not burying your head in the sand I don't what is. My point here is that so called moderate Muslims should do a much better job of speaking out against what would appear to be millions of Islamic radicals. The attitude that Justice displays not only would appear to condone the radicals but fosters the thought process that groups the "moderates" in with the radicals.

 

Just to make it clear I am not suggesting that Justice or anyone else takes up arms against terrorists. In asking them to "join the fray" I'm asking them to speak out and make it clear that they abhor the actions of the radicals. They don't get to say that it is horrific and then qualify it with a but.............

 

Comparing puny Westboro Baptist Church and their assinine shenanigans with the death and destruction caused by Al Qaeda and ISIS is ridiculous and you should know better. WBC has been widely denounced by nearly everybody.

Again, where is it written that female mutilation is forbidden in the Muslim world?

Do they run counter to just about everything in the Koran?

 

In other words we should give the moderates a free pass to pursue their yes/but positions when it comes to radical Islam?

 

 

Is that the only topic floating in your little head? You don't answer any of my questions and you constantly ask more. I already addressed FGM.

 

[EDITED]

 

The rules of war wasn't even addressed to you. I was responding to someone else.

 

BTW. Prove I said FGM is forbidden. I'm waiting.

 

 

I made myself clear on that already. It's not even a religious issue. Like I said, I know Christians, Jews and Atheists that won't permit their children to go to Cancun for spring break.

 

No, I'm not saying that at all. Whether she covers or not That's between her and God, but the way you dress says a lot about you as a person.

I hold myself to those same restrictions. I once had a gambling problem and now I avoid The Hard Rock Casino at all costs.

 

Man, I couldn't tell you how many of my friends told me they wish their kids were more like mine.

Hey, 3rd, having fun looking for something that doesn't exist? Lol. Don't put words in my mouth next time. Makes you look foolish or a liar. Either one is bad.

 

 

Hey Justice, it was in your post #250:

 

"He also brought up another example of how some Muslims do things that Islam doesn't permit, such as Female Mutilation. The Quran and the Hadiths doesn't even mention FM."

 

I won't go as far as you did and call you a liar because I know people can make an honest mistake. You do look awful foolish though.

 

 

Are you being serious? Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. You're not a liar. You just can't comprehend. There's a huge difference between doesn't permit and forbid. Try to keep things in context. My very next sentence was, "the Quran and Hadiths doesn't even mention FGM".

 

I can see where you misunderstood, I probably could've worded it better, but the very next sentence should've made things clear to you.

 

 

Please explain the difference between "doesn't permit" and forbidden. I'm well aware of what your next sentence said. I wanted to know, from you, where it was prohibited.

Don't confuse laws made by a government and religious practices.

 

 

You don't quit, do you? The difference is and what I meant was the Quran doesn't give you permission to do so, but my next sentence was vital and that's why I added it. It's not mentioned in the Quran or Hadiths. If it's not there then it wouldn't be anywhere else. I never said it was forbidden.

 

 

@3rd To take it even further Islam isn't just a religion it's a way of life. A manual so to speak. If FGM was forbidden it would say so. There's no mention of it at all either way so I suppose it's not a sin, but since it's not suggested than it's not something you have to do.

 

I mentioned earlier that crack isn't mentioned in the Quran but that doesn't mean you can do it. What is mentioned in the Quran is you shouldn't do any substance that alters your personality or impairs your judgment. Therefore all of drugs and alcohol is covered under that command.

 

 

You said earlier that FGM is not permitted in Islam. I simply asked you for an explanation of why it is not permitted, or more accurately, on what authority it is not permitted.

 

 

 

 

[Justice]

Oh my. You're cherry picking statements. I already explained it to you in detail. Know when you're wrong. Give up already.

 

 

So, now I'm the one having a tough time making up his mind? Is FGM permitted or not in the Muslim religion? Regardless as to your answer to that, should it be acceptable?

 

 

Yes. You're the one having the tough time. Extrememy tough. This all started by you saying I said it was forbidden. I challenged you to produce the proof I said it. You didn't/couldn't. You're trying to save face by cherry picking my first statement and entirely ignoring the second. I said the Quran doesn't give you permission to do so. That doesn't mean I said it's forbidden.

 

It's not prohibited. It's not forbidden. I never said it was. It's not mentioned at all. If it's not mentioned in the Quran and the Hadiths then no one has the authority to make it so.

 

No it shouldn't. It sounds awful.

 

 

You said that FGM is not permitted in Islam. What makes it not permitted? I know you are not this dumb. Were you trying to say that the Koran does not give specific permission or demand that it be done? I'm trying to make sense of what you are saying. "Not permitted" and "forbidden" mean the same thing in the English language.

 

 

Holy cow! Did you even read what I've said over and over and over again?

 

"Were you trying to say that the Koran does not give specific permission or demand that it be done?"-3rd

 

Uh yeah! I've made that clear already. More than once, too, and I can prove it. You're truly embarrassing yourself at this point, and don't give me no BS about you're just messing with me, either.

[DC Tom]

And tribalism doesn't explain Al Qeda or any other jihadist recruiting effort, as much as religious sects do. ISIS is just the latest flavor of the day.

Which other jihadist recruiting efforts? Hizb'allah? Tribal. Hamas? Tribal. Ansar al-Sharia? Tribal. Boko Haram? EXTREMELY tribal. Even the Taleban is a tribal organization.

 

In most Islamic areas, tribalism dominates. It has for much longer than 800 years in most places. Islam had to allow the incorporation of local tribal cultures in order to spread as it did. Most of the Koran is about tribal strife and warfare (which is one of the reasons why it's so misrepresented in the West - we can't begin to believe that monotheism can be so permissive as to allow tribalism, to the point of forgetting that Judaism itself has a basis in tribalism.)

 

Fact is, Islam is generally more permissive than other monotheistic religions. It's why it's such a problem for the West. Hell, it's why we have this asinine argument about female circumcision going on here - it's impossible for people to understand that it's a tribal ritual, neither condoned nor prohibited by Islam.

[3rdnlng]

Holy cow! Did you even read what I've said over and over and over again?

 

"Were you trying to say that the Koran does not give specific permission or demand that it be done?"-3rd

 

Uh yeah! I've made that clear already. More than once, too, and I can prove it. You're truly embarrassing yourself at this point, and don't give me no BS about you're just messing with me, either.

No, you haven't made anything clear. You've re-posted the whole discussion in some idiotic attempt to make it appear that I'm wrong just by the pure volume of your postings. You either have a very poor understanding of the English language or are very, very dumb. In my last post I specifically gave you a ladder to climb down off of your high horse and instead of taking it you acted like an ass and continued your obtuse ways. One more time: You stated that FGM is not permitted in Islam. "Not permitted" means "not allowed" in the English language. It is the same thing as "forbidden" which also means "not allowed" in the English language. It makes no sense to say something is "not permitted" but also "not forbidden". I know that there is the possibility that English is not your first language and there may also be cultural differences that are influencing your responses here but I have explained to you your error several times. Don't you think that stepping back and actually thinking through what I have been telling you might be a prudent step? I'd like to think that you are not this stupid but it seems like you are determined to prove differently.

[GG]

Which other jihadist recruiting efforts? Hizb'allah? Tribal. Hamas? Tribal. Ansar al-Sharia? Tribal. Boko Haram? EXTREMELY tribal. Even the Taleban is a tribal organization.

 

In most Islamic areas, tribalism dominates. It has for much longer than 800 years in most places. Islam had to allow the incorporation of local tribal cultures in order to spread as it did. Most of the Koran is about tribal strife and warfare (which is one of the reasons why it's so misrepresented in the West - we can't begin to believe that monotheism can be so permissive as to allow tribalism, to the point of forgetting that Judaism itself has a basis in tribalism.)

 

Fact is, Islam is generally more permissive than other monotheistic religions. It's why it's such a problem for the West. Hell, it's why we have this asinine argument about female circumcision going on here - it's impossible for people to understand that it's a tribal ritual, neither condoned nor prohibited by Islam.

 

Al Qeda has been recruiting foreigners for decades. Foreign fighters were a strong contingent in Chechnya. There were no shortage of Arabs flocking to Afghanistan during the Russian invasion.

 

Is tribalism important? Sure. But it wouldn't explain why Persians are going out of their way to help Arabs. There is a better explanation why a Persian Shiite wants to help an Arab Shiite.

[Justice]

No, you haven't made anything clear. You've re-posted the whole discussion in some idiotic attempt to make it appear that I'm wrong just by the pure volume of your postings. You either have a very poor understanding of the English language or are very, very dumb. In my last post I specifically gave you a ladder to climb down off of your high horse and instead of taking it you acted like an ass and continued your obtuse ways. One more time: You stated that FGM is not permitted in Islam. "Not permitted" means "not allowed" in the English language. It is the same thing as "forbidden" which also means "not allowed" in the English language. It makes no sense to say something is "not permitted" but also "not forbidden". I know that there is the possibility that English is not your first language and there may also be cultural differences that are influencing your responses here but I have explained to you your error several times. Don't you think that stepping back and actually thinking through what I have been telling you might be a prudent step? I'd like to think that you are not this stupid but it seems like you are determined to prove differently.

You're the one that has difficulty keeping things in context. You're the one that keeps asking me where does Islam say it's forbidden over and over again even though I told you the Quran and the Hadiths doesn't give permission therefore it's NOT forbidden. Let me ask you this, who do YOU think is in charge of saying what's a sin and what's not a sin in Islam? As far as I know if it's not mentioned in the Quran and the Hadiths then it can't possibly be a sin.

 

My second question for you is why do you keep asking me if it's forbidden when I told you it's not?

 

My favorite part of this argument is when you said "did you mean to say the Quran doesn't give you permission" after I said those exact words a few times already. I already admitted in my first response to you that I could have worded it better, but my second sentence was a solid no-error clarification that's it's not forbidden because it isn't even mentioned.

 

All of this should have been crystal clear to you at 7:15, last night.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Justice

[Jauronimo]

Which other jihadist recruiting efforts? Hizb'allah? Tribal. Hamas? Tribal. Ansar al-Sharia? Tribal. Boko Haram? EXTREMELY tribal. Even the Taleban is a tribal organization.

 

In most Islamic areas, tribalism dominates. It has for much longer than 800 years in most places. Islam had to allow the incorporation of local tribal cultures in order to spread as it did. Most of the Koran is about tribal strife and warfare (which is one of the reasons why it's so misrepresented in the West - we can't begin to believe that monotheism can be so permissive as to allow tribalism, to the point of forgetting that Judaism itself has a basis in tribalism.)

 

Fact is, Islam is generally more permissive than other monotheistic religions. It's why it's such a problem for the West. Hell, it's why we have this asinine argument about female circumcision going on here - it's impossible for people to understand that it's a tribal ritual, neither condoned nor prohibited by Islam.

I get the impression that much of the country first heard about the world's largest religion back in September of 2001.

 

I have friends telling me that i shouldn't go to Turkey because of vague memories involving headlines about honor killings. "Some girl got her head cut off there!" I'm about as worried about being decapitated as a I am about a forced clitorectomy.

[DC Tom]

I get the impression that much of the country first heard about the world's largest religion back in September of 2001.

 

I have friends telling me that i shouldn't go to Turkey because of vague memories involving headlines about honor killings. "Some girl got her head cut off there!" I'm about as worried about being decapitated as a I am about a forced clitorectomy.

 

It doesn't help that we have a history that resembles nothing of the rest of the world. How are people in the US expected to understand that ISIL is fighting not just Arabs, and Kurds, but the remnants of the damned Assyrian Empire from three thousand years ago, for example?

[PearlHowardman]

“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the (false) faith he preached.”

BYZANTINE EMPEROR MANUEL PALEOLOGOS II

[DC Tom]

 

“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the (false) faith he preached.”

BYZANTINE EMPEROR MANUEL PALEOLOGOS II

 

 

And why are we taking the Byzantines at face value?

 

(Never mind that it's a mistranslation from Greek to Persian to German to English, taken well out of context. And that you've already said that - you really could use some new material, rather than repeating the same four bull **** statements time and time again. But...we're using the Paliologian Dynasty as arbiters of the holiness of Islam? Really?)

[3rdnlng]

You're the one that has difficulty keeping things in context. You're the one that keeps asking me where does Islam say it's forbidden over and over again even though I told you the Quran and the Hadiths doesn't give permission therefore it's NOT forbidden. Let me ask you this, who do YOU think is in charge of saying what's a sin and what's not a sin in Islam? As far as I know if it's not mentioned in the Quran and the Hadiths then it can't possibly be a sin.

 

My second question for you is why do you keep asking me if it's forbidden when I told you it's not?

 

My favorite part of this argument is when you said "did you mean to say the Quran doesn't give you permission" after I said those exact words a few times already. I already admitted in my first response to you that I could have worded it better, but my second sentence was a solid no-error clarification that's it's not forbidden because it isn't even mentioned.

 

All of this should have been crystal clear to you at 7:15, last night.

You know, I'm really not trying to embarrass you. Why do you keep trying to do it to yourself? I'm not even saying the word "forbidden" but asking you how that word differs with "not permitted". Either there is a real disconnect here and it can be reconciled or, well, here's what I have to say to you: mlm

 

 

Edited April 19, 2015 by 3rdnlng

[Justice]

You know, I'm really not trying to embarrass you. Why do you keep trying to do it to yourself? I'm not even saying the word "forbidden" but asking you how that word differs with "not permitted". Either there is a real disconnect here and it can be reconciled or, well, here's what I have to say to you: mlm

 

Your words, not mine:

 

"Again, where is it written that female mutilation is forbidden in the Muslim world?"

 

See the words "again" and "forbidden"? That means you clearly said it and more than once, too.

 

The fact is I said Islam does not permit FGM and it's not even mentioned in the Quran and Hadiths. Where do you think Islam comes from other than the Quran and Hadiths, anyways?

 

But you still kept on asking me, "who says its prohibited"? "On what authority is it prohibited?" "Is it prohibited or not"?

 

See a pattern forming there? Even when I told you I meant to say the Quran doesn't give permission to do so, you just kept on asking.

 

"Does not permit", when taken out of context means forbidden, but it doesn't work that way. You must keep my statement in context. You're embarrassing yourself. Like I said before, you should've dropped it at 7:15 a few days ago.

 

Even if you take each statement individually, even though you shouldn't, I'm still not wrong. Islam does not permit FGM and it doesn't. It's not stated anywhere in the Quran or the Hadiths that it's permissible. At the same time it also doesn't forbid it either.

 

Why can't you see you have to keep my statement in context? Is it because it isn't convenient for you to do so? Why are YOU being so obtuse?

 

The fact is I challenged you to show me where I said it's forbidden and of course you went off searching for it. As soon as you spotted the words, "Islam doesn't permit" you were content and stopped reading on. When I challenged you to keep the statement in context you desperately hung on to that first line like a baby with a pacifier so you wouldn't be proven wrong and completely left out my very next sentence. Embarrassing. SMDH.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Justice