TPS Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 One thing we fans have no clue about is Cordy Glenn. Did his illness hurt him all of last year and we can expect him to be back to his 2013 level, which was very good? Did Marrone/Morris just hurt him like they seemed to hurt everyone else on the line and we can now expect him to be back to his stellar 2013 play? Or did he simply have one outlier very good season and he is just not that good. I'm thinking and hoping it was a combination of 1 and 2. Also, everyone should listen to the LeCharles Bentley interview on Friday's John Murphy Show. Good stuff from a guy who knows. You can find it on bills.com 3. playing next to 3 different people, one a raw rookie. Anyone know his ratings in games after Urbik took over?
DC Tom Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 3. playing next to 3 different people, one a raw rookie. Anyone know his ratings in games after Urbik took over? I know he suffered when Colin Brown lined up at guard, and immediately got better when Legursky took over and Brown was cut. OL is probably has the most interdependence of performance of any position on the field. A WR can blow a route, and it impacts him, the QB, and maybe one other receiver. A safety blows a coverage, and maybe it indirectly impacts the DL by letting the QB release faster. But an OL blows a blocking assignment, and he throws the entire scheme off and !@#$s over four other linemen (and the tight ends, the running back(s), and the QB.) Couple that with confused coaching and bad blocking schemes... Yeah, I'm willing to give Glenn the benefit of the doubt in this case. And Wood. Hell, most of the linemen were set up to fail last season as badly as anyone I've ever seen.
NickelCity Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 Gambling the season on whether two young guys (of Cyrus, Cyril, and Seantrel) dramatically improve is ludicrous. Chris Williams is not starting material. I fully expect a starter to be signed in FA before the draft. I tend to think they will sign a guard and give Seantrel some help with Clay and/or Felton. This is the definition off off-season euphoria. People get caught up in some nice signings and now even the weakest part of the team will suddenly perform at a respectable level with little change.While I do expect them to play better with blocking schemes more suited to their skills the OL talent is still nowhere near where it needs to be for a team with a shakey QB situation that is going to bave to repeatedly run the ball vs. 8 man fronts. Even if Henderson makes a giant leap forward this year (a big IF) this team still needs a quality G. If they go into this season with what they currently have they will struggle. Nailed it.
Iraq Vet Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 This O-line is extremely young. Wood and Incongito are the old guys and they are not that old. Not every rookie is a boom or bust. Some take a year or so to get going.
thewildrabbit Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 This is the definition off off-season euphoria. People get caught up in some nice signings and now even the weakest part of the team will suddenly perform at a respectable level with little change. While I do expect them to play better with blocking schemes more suited to their skills the OL talent is still nowhere near where it needs to be for a team with a shakey QB situation that is going to bave to repeatedly run the ball vs. 8 man fronts. Even if Henderson makes a giant leap forward this year (a big IF) this team still needs a quality G. If they go into this season with what they currently have they will struggle. So true! Almost unbelievable that so many fans think that by signing elite players in other positions other then the offensive line that suddenly the line will improve. The only upgrade to the line so far is an OG (mental patient) who is on thin ice, and with one major disruption and he is done. The Bills need a contingency plan for this player. The line was the weakest area of the team by far last year, and graded 30th overall, 32nd in run blocking. Yet this year the coaches want to build a "ground & pound" attack with the O line that in the previous season was last in the NFL in run blocking.... http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-opinion/2015/3/16/8212941/buffalo-bills-offensive-line-nfl-free-agency-2015 I know I was hoping that with the addition of Greg Roman that the Bills would address building the line with some elite talent like the 49ers had the last few years to run their power rushing game, they didn't. OT Jake Long, OG Justin Blalock, C Stefen Wisniewski, and then I'd say the line improved appropriately if the Bills signed all three. Urbik, Williams should be gone, and the young players drafted last year should be the backups. McCoy, Harvin, Clay, Cassell, and none of those signings will matter if they don't upgrade at least two more positions on that line.
BackInDaDay Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) my biggest concern for this season is how Roman is going to compensate for a lack of athletic guards who can pull on powers and traps.. not to mention getting after second level defenders on combos. if he has to lean too heavily on schemes where Felton and Clay have to clean up what the guards can't - this become a weakness.. but as others have stated.. Cromer should be a considerable upgrade - i just don't know what he can do with our guards. and by the way - can we stop propogating the myth that Pat Morris was running a ZBS.. there's good articles on what it is, and what it looks like - and other than a few attempts at an outside zone to Spiller, our line wasn't asked to move laterally.. shoot.. they could barely engage the guy in front of them Edited March 18, 2015 by BackInDaDay
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 my biggest concern for this season is how Roman is going to compensate for a lack of athletic guards who can pull on powers and traps.. not to mention getting after second level defenders on combos. if he has to lean too heavily on schemes where Felton and Clay have to clean up what the guards can't - this become a weakness.. but as others have stated.. Cromer should be a considerable upgrade - i just don't know what he can do with our guards. and by the way - can we stop propogating the myth that Pat Morris was running a ZBS.. there's good articles on what it is, and what it looks like - and other than a few attempts at an outside zone to Spiller, our line wasn't asked to move laterally.. shoot.. they could barely engage the guy in front of them That doesn't mean he wasn't running zone blocking system, necessarily. It could mean he was just running a really bad one. Personally, I always got the impression it was some sort of !@#$ed up hybrid of zone and man blocking, which is why no one knew what they were doing and it didn't work.
3rdand12 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 A lot of people want him cut but seem to forget he won the starting job before getting hurt last year. Maybe try to get him to take a pay cut, but I'm not ready to just cut him. Won?
3rdand12 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 That doesn't mean he wasn't running zone blocking system, necessarily. It could mean he was just running a really bad one. Personally, I always got the impression it was some sort of !@#$ed up hybrid of zone and man blocking, which is why no one knew what they were doing and it didn't work. It was horrid. and yes they looked confused, and then defeated. but who was calling the o line at scrimmage ? when EJ was getting freaked out playing Houston?
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 It would be quite helpful if Williams is healthy and can play up to his capabilities. Also, hopefully Cyrus surprises. Perhaps he was miscoached.
Doc Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 So true! Almost unbelievable that so many fans think that by signing elite players in other positions other then the offensive line that suddenly the line will improve. The only upgrade to the line so far is an OG (mental patient) who is on thin ice, and with one major disruption and he is done. The Bills need a contingency plan for this player. The line was the weakest area of the team by far last year, and graded 30th overall, 32nd in run blocking. Yet this year the coaches want to build a "ground & pound" attack with the O line that in the previous season was last in the NFL in run blocking.... http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-opinion/2015/3/16/8212941/buffalo-bills-offensive-line-nfl-free-agency-2015 I know I was hoping that with the addition of Greg Roman that the Bills would address building the line with some elite talent like the 49ers had the last few years to run their power rushing game, they didn't. OT Jake Long, OG Justin Blalock, C Stefen Wisniewski, and then I'd say the line improved appropriately if the Bills signed all three. Urbik, Williams should be gone, and the young players drafted last year should be the backups. McCoy, Harvin, Clay, Cassell, and none of those signings will matter if they don't upgrade at least two more positions on that line. Incognito isn't a threat to be a disruption and will not only be a huge upgrade at the LG spot, he will also help Glenn and Wood up their games from last year because he won't need to have help from the other 2 like the LG's last year did (and I also don't expect Glenn to suffer another "mysterious illness" prior to the start of training camp). As for RG, Urbik showed the 4 seasons prior to last season that he could play it well so that position shouldn't be a huge concern, although ultimately you'd like to get a dominant player there. And at RT, Henderson showed promise despite playing all off- and pre-season at LT and should be much better in his 2nd season.
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) It was horrid. and yes they looked confused, and then defeated. but who was calling the o line at scrimmage ? when EJ was getting freaked out playing Houston? I'm going through that game now on NFL Game Rewind. So far...I don't think anyone was calling the blocking at the line. Third offensive play, Glenn gets beat by a LB on an outside speed rush, in no small part because Chandler screened him and let the LB get an extra step and a half on him. Between that and a jailbreak up the middle when a stunt defeats whatever the hell that blocking scheme was (looks like man at first, but Wood engages his rusher, who moves him left in to the guard, who stays in his zone, which lets a tackle free through the zone Wood just vacated playing man). Who the hell designs a play like that? Funny thing is, the only lineman who held his block on that play was...Pears. Fifth offensive play, Glenn, Wood, and Richardson all start moving to block the same guy. That lets the edge rusher get a step on Glenn again, and Richardson and Wood can't even double-team the tackle after Richardson gets in Wood's way. It's just an awful blocking scheme - the outside rusher never should have gotten a step on Glenn, and the inside rusher could have been double-teamed cleanly if Wood and Richardson weren't confused. Again, the only lineman that holds his block is Pears. Sixth play, Pears blocks his guy cleanly again...until for some inexplicable reason he releases his block and starts to run downfield like he's an eligible receiver. Strangest damned thing... Edited March 19, 2015 by DC Tom
NickelCity Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I can appreciate the optimism and understanding of how and where the line would improve, but the bolded/underlined is what I find inexcusable for an abysmal unit. That being said, I think all of this will be moot (mute) when we sign two or more OL FAs in the next month... It would be quite helpful if Williams is healthy and can play up to his capabilities. Also, hopefully Cyrus surprises. Perhaps he was miscoached.
NoSaint Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I'm going through that game now on NFL Game Rewind. So far...I don't think anyone was calling the blocking at the line. Third offensive play, Glenn gets beat by a LB on an outside speed rush, in no small part because Chandler screened him and let the LB get an extra step and a half on him. Between that and a jailbreak up the middle when a stunt defeats whatever the hell that blocking scheme was (looks like man at first, but Wood engages his rusher, who moves him left in to the guard, who stays in his zone, which lets a tackle free through the zone Wood just vacated playing man). Who the hell designs a play like that? Funny thing is, the only lineman who held his block on that play was...Pears. Fifth offensive play, Glenn, Wood, and Richardson all start moving to block the same guy. That lets the edge rusher get a step on Glenn again, and Richardson and Wood can't even double-team the tackle after Richardson gets in Wood's way. It's just an awful blocking scheme - the outside rusher never should have gotten a step on Glenn, and the inside rusher could have been double-teamed cleanly if Wood and Richardson weren't confused. Again, the only lineman that holds his block is Pears. Sixth play, Pears blocks his guy cleanly again...until for some inexplicable reason he releases his block and starts to run downfield like he's an eligible receiver. Strangest damned thing... EJ caught hell for that game but it was one of the strangest performances from an oline I can remember.... He never stood a chance. I think jj alone hit him like 10 times
Deranged Rhino Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Also, everyone should listen to the LeCharles Bentley interview on Friday's John Murphy Show. Good stuff from a guy who knows. You can find it on bills.com . You aren't kidding. I just gave it a listen and I'm ready to go play right now. Great interview.
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 The line wasn`t that bad last yr it was a old slow back making it look bad. Remember when he was hurt,and missed a game. Bryce and Boobie tore it up................crickets.
Kemp Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Saying the O line will be better than last year isn't saying very much.
3rdand12 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) EJ caught hell for that game but it was one of the strangest performances from an oline I can remember.... He never stood a chance. I think jj alone hit him like 10 times I'm going through that game now on NFL Game Rewind. So far...I don't think anyone was calling the blocking at the line. Third offensive play, Glenn gets beat by a LB on an outside speed rush, in no small part because Chandler screened him and let the LB get an extra step and a half on him. Between that and a jailbreak up the middle when a stunt defeats whatever the hell that blocking scheme was (looks like man at first, but Wood engages his rusher, who moves him left in to the guard, who stays in his zone, which lets a tackle free through the zone Wood just vacated playing man). Who the hell designs a play like that? Funny thing is, the only lineman who held his block on that play was...Pears. Fifth offensive play, Glenn, Wood, and Richardson all start moving to block the same guy. That lets the edge rusher get a step on Glenn again, and Richardson and Wood can't even double-team the tackle after Richardson gets in Wood's way. It's just an awful blocking scheme - the outside rusher never should have gotten a step on Glenn, and the inside rusher could have been double-teamed cleanly if Wood and Richardson weren't confused. Again, the only lineman that holds his block is Pears. Sixth play, Pears blocks his guy cleanly again...until for some inexplicable reason he releases his block and starts to run downfield like he's an eligible receiver. Strangest damned thing... It was as if , someone wanted to lose. seriously. or get EJ destroyed. bad Mojo. That game freaked me out. I felt like i was EJ was worried he was going to be killed. or worse. Amazed you rewatched it. you are a braver man than i EJ caught hell for that game but it was one of the strangest performances from an oline I can remember.... He never stood a chance. I think jj alone hit him like 10 times I still think that game broke EJ , and he had to be pulled. There is no way Roman and Kromer allow that to happen. Edited March 19, 2015 by 3rdand12
Kirby Jackson Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I think that the OL will improve with the addition of Incognito and a new coaching staff. I think highly of Kromer from his time down here with the Saints. With that being said they are still at least 1-2 players away in my estimation. They need a starting guard still. I believe that Seantrel will develop into a good RT. If Urbik is your swing guy on the inside and those young guys (Richarson & Cyrus) are your depth you are okay. I would like to see a swing tackle added as well (unless they think that Seantrel can play the left side if needed and Cyrus RT). They will certainly be better but that does not mean that they are where they need to be.
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