Rivers in 2016?

[C.Biscuit97]

Obviously teams don't want to let a franchise guy go; that doesn't mean that it isn't going to happen.

 

Also, I believe you're conflating "franchise" and "top 10". IMO they're not the same. A franchise guy is simply one that the team can win a Superbowl with; not necessarily top 10.

 

Joe Flacco - franchise

Big Ben - top 10

Agree with that. I should have said a team won't let a top 15 qb go unless there are underlying issues. Rivers is a top 10 qb. The Chargers are going to do everything in their power to keep him unless he flat out refuses to move to LA.

 

But that's why the hype about guys like Bradford and Cutler coming to the Bills was silly. They aren't franchise QBs, that's why their teams would move them. It going to remain true forever. Your best bet at finding a franchise QB is through the draft. Because no team is going to get rid of a QB they believe can win a SB for them.

[K D]

I think whoever wants Mariota is going to have to make Tennessee a nice offer. The Eagles would probably give up Bradford + their 1st pick next year (my guess). I think Rivers is a much better QB so if San Diego offers up him + a high pick next year then they win. I don't think the Eagles would be able to match that no matter how many picks they give up. Bradford just isn't that good. But the holdup will be Rivers signing an extension with Tennessee to make it worth their while to pull off the trade. All of that will have to be worked out prior to the draft so the info would probably leak if they were working on it

[Kirby Jackson]

Agree with that. I should have said a team won't let a top 15 qb go unless there are underlying issues. Rivers is a top 10 qb. The Chargers are going to do everything in their power to keep him unless he flat out refuses to move to LA.

 

But that's why the hype about guys like Bradford and Cutler coming to the Bills was silly. They aren't franchise QBs, that's why their teams would move them. It going to remain true forever. Your best bet at finding a franchise QB is through the draft. Because no team is going to get rid of a QB they believe can win a SB for them.

I generally agree. The couple of examples in recent years to the contrary are Alex Smith and Peyton Manning. IF the Bills had either of those guys as their QB they would be considered Super Bowl contenders. Say what you want about Smith but he is good enough to win on this team and his playoff numbers are outstanding.

The ONLY way that legitimate guys hit the market is if some weird extenuating circumstance arises. Peyton had that brutal neck injury and led them to Luck while Kaepernick went nuts and everyone thought that he was the future of the game. The SD situation could fall into that weird circumstance. Rivers will not be under contract. He has enough money to actually walk away. The team isn't about to be competitive. He has the upper hand in many ways. The Chargers may be presented with an ultimatum that they have no choice but to accept.

 

I agree that guys like Brees, Eli and Big Ben wont be on the move. The Rivers situation is an anomaly and for that reason could actually happen. I would venture to say that if Rivers presented the Chargers with a list of teams that he would want to be traded to the Bills and Texans would be at the top.

[Gordio]

I generally agree. The couple of examples in recent years to the contrary are Alex Smith and Peyton Manning. IF the Bills had either of those guys as their QB they would be considered Super Bowl contenders. Say what you want about Smith but he is good enough to win on this team and his playoff numbers are outstanding.

The ONLY way that legitimate guys hit the market is if some weird extenuating circumstance arises. Peyton had that brutal neck injury and led them to Luck while Kaepernick went nuts and everyone thought that he was the future of the game. The SD situation could fall into that weird circumstance. Rivers will not be under contract. He has enough money to actually walk away. The team isn't about to be competitive. He has the upper hand in many ways. The Chargers may be presented with an ultimatum that they have no choice but to accept.

 

I agree that guys like Brees, Eli and Big Ben wont be on the move. The Rivers situation is an anomaly and for that reason could actually happen. I would venture to say that if Rivers presented the Chargers with a list of teams that he would want to be traded to the Bills and Texans would be at the top.

 

 

I dont agree with this. You guys are talking like these guys are just entering the prime of their careers. Eli/Ben/Rivers have been in the league now going on 12 years & Brees has been in the league for 15 years I believe. How much longer do you think these guys are going to be playing at a high level. I believe it is down right foolish for teams like New Orleans & the Giants not to entertain offers this year for Eli/Brees. Neither team is going anywhere with or without their QBS so imo they might as well get the 1 or 2 first round picks that some team will be foolish enough to throw at them while they still can. & for a financially strapped team like the Saints, wouldn't it make sense to shed Brees' $20 million salary this year? It is very short sighted of these teams to not even entertain offers for their franchise Qbs imo.

[Chuck Wagon]

I generally agree. The couple of examples in recent years to the contrary are Alex Smith and Peyton Manning. IF the Bills had either of those guys as their QB they would be considered Super Bowl contenders. Say what you want about Smith but he is good enough to win on this team and his playoff numbers are outstanding.

The ONLY way that legitimate guys hit the market is if some weird extenuating circumstance arises. Peyton had that brutal neck injury and led them to Luck while Kaepernick went nuts and everyone thought that he was the future of the game. The SD situation could fall into that weird circumstance. Rivers will not be under contract. He has enough money to actually walk away. The team isn't about to be competitive. He has the upper hand in many ways. The Chargers may be presented with an ultimatum that they have no choice but to accept.

 

I agree that guys like Brees, Eli and Big Ben wont be on the move. The Rivers situation is an anomaly and for that reason could actually happen. I would venture to say that if Rivers presented the Chargers with a list of teams that he would want to be traded to the Bills and Texans would be at the top.

 

 

 

I think the Titans are at the top of his list. He's tight with Wisenhunt and Nashville is almost home for him.

 

I find it hard to believe they'll just let him walk away, worst case they'll tag & trade him. And if I'm the Chargers I could really care less where he wants to be traded, I'm moving him for the best deal possible. The only way I'd move him right now is if I was getting the Titans #2 pick so I could just take Mariota or Winston, I'm not sure what we could give them to really interest them all that much. A future 1st? They have to know with Rivers they are looking at a pick in the 20s. Two future 1st? Do we really want to pay that price for a 33 year old who hasn't won much and wants a $100 mil deal?

 

 

I'll gladly eat my words if it happens, but I don't think Rivers in a Bills uniform is any more than a pipe dream.

[RyanC883]

I generally agree. The couple of examples in recent years to the contrary are Alex Smith and Peyton Manning. IF the Bills had either of those guys as their QB they would be considered Super Bowl contenders. Say what you want about Smith but he is good enough to win on this team and his playoff numbers are outstanding.

The ONLY way that legitimate guys hit the market is if some weird extenuating circumstance arises. Peyton had that brutal neck injury and led them to Luck while Kaepernick went nuts and everyone thought that he was the future of the game. The SD situation could fall into that weird circumstance. Rivers will not be under contract. He has enough money to actually walk away. The team isn't about to be competitive. He has the upper hand in many ways. The Chargers may be presented with an ultimatum that they have no choice but to accept.

 

I agree that guys like Brees, Eli and Big Ben wont be on the move. The Rivers situation is an anomaly and for that reason could actually happen. I would venture to say that if Rivers presented the Chargers with a list of teams that he would want to be traded to the Bills and Texans would be at the top.

 

This is a great analysis of the situation. And also don't forget that SD let Brees go to make room for Rivers. Getting Rivers would give the Bills the most talented roster in the NFL. (I still think we can make the Playoffs and be dangerous with Cassel or improved EJ, but would trade this years 2nd and next 1st for Rivers)

[Beerball]

Rivers in 2015.

[Gordio]

You put a Helicopter pad at the practice facility and one at Rivers house.

 

It wouldn't really be that expensive.

 

Throw it to the contract and it is all a business expense for the Chargers.

 

Problem solved.

 

When Philips came into the league he had a stacked WR core, TE and LT. That team certainly hasn't been generous with the tools for Phillips.

 

I'm guess there is something more to it than LA.

 

 

You think that would sit well with the other guys in the lockerroom when your star QB comes in on helicopter to practice every morning on the team's dime?

[RyanC883]

 

 

I dont agree with this. You guys are talking like these guys are just entering the prime of their careers. Eli/Ben/Rivers have been in the league now going on 12 years & Brees has been in the league for 15 years I believe. How much longer do you think these guys are going to be playing at a high level. I believe it is down right foolish for teams like New Orleans & the Giants not to entertain offers this year for Eli/Brees. Neither team is going anywhere with or without their QBS so imo they might as well get the 1 or 2 first round picks that some team will be foolish enough to throw at them while they still can. & for a financially strapped team like the Saints, wouldn't it make sense to shed Brees' $20 million salary this year? It is very short sighted of these teams to not even entertain offers for their franchise Qbs imo.

 

I agree with this also. Why would the Chargers hold onto Brees if they could obtain a bevy of draft picks that help them get their next QB. Colts did this (in a way) to get Luck. Ben won't be moving though. He just had the best year of his career (arguably) last year, and with A. Brown and L. Bell, that team will still be very dangerous.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

I think the Titans are at the top of his list. He's tight with Wisenhunt and Nashville is almost home for him.

 

I find it hard to believe they'll just let him walk away, worst case they'll tag & trade him. And if I'm the Chargers I could really care less where he wants to be traded, I'm moving him for the best deal possible. The only way I'd move him right now is if I was getting the Titans #2 pick so I could just take Mariota or Winston, I'm not sure what we could give them to really interest them all that much. A future 1st? They have to know with Rivers they are looking at a pick in the 20s. Two future 1st? Do we really want to pay that price for a 33 year old who hasn't won much and wants a $100 mil deal?

 

 

I'll gladly eat my words if it happens, but I don't think Rivers in a Bills uniform is any more than a pipe dream.

I think the issue with trading him somewhere he may not want to go (I'll use the Browns as an example since that came up as an option in a 3-way trade for the chargers to trade for Mariota) is that the new team will need to work out an extension with him since he's a FA in 2016. If Rives isn't interested in doing a long term deal with the new team, it is crazy to trade a top pick for a guy you may only have for a year. This makes it hard to trade him as he likely has a very short list of places he is willing to sign with long term.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I dont agree with this. You guys are talking like these guys are just entering the prime of their careers. Eli/Ben/Rivers have been in the league now going on 12 years & Brees has been in the league for 15 years I believe. How much longer do you think these guys are going to be playing at a high level. I believe it is down right foolish for teams like New Orleans & the Giants not to entertain offers this year for Eli/Brees. Neither team is going anywhere with or without their QBS so imo they might as well get the 1 or 2 first round picks that some team will be foolish enough to throw at them while they still can. & for a financially strapped team like the Saints, wouldn't it make sense to shed Brees' $20 million salary this year? It is very short sighted of these teams to not even entertain offers for their franchise Qbs imo.

Maybe it is but I am in New Orleans. They are more likely to trade every guy on that roster than they are to trade Brees.

[RyanC883]

 

 

You think that would sit well with the other guys in the lockerroom when your star QB comes in on helicopter to practice every morning on the team's dime?

 

 

 

 

I think the Titans are at the top of his list. He's tight with Wisenhunt and Nashville is almost home for him.

 

I find it hard to believe they'll just let him walk away, worst case they'll tag & trade him. And if I'm the Chargers I could really care less where he wants to be traded, I'm moving him for the best deal possible. The only way I'd move him right now is if I was getting the Titans #2 pick so I could just take Mariota or Winston, I'm not sure what we could give them to really interest them all that much. A future 1st? They have to know with Rivers they are looking at a pick in the 20s. Two future 1st? Do we really want to pay that price for a 33 year old who hasn't won much and wants a $100 mil deal?

 

 

I'll gladly eat my words if it happens, but I don't think Rivers in a Bills uniform is any more than a pipe dream.

 

likely a pipe dream, but if Rivers wants to win, Nashville can't be #1 on his list. We could trade this years 2nd, and next 1st and 2nd, which SD could play with to move up next year or this year (I'd rather grab a QB next year if I were them). At any rate, if we don't get Rivers, I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing a OT, G, ILB and trying to gain additional picks for next year and move up to grab a QB.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

 

I think the Titans are at the top of his list. He's tight with Wisenhunt and Nashville is almost home for him.

 

I find it hard to believe they'll just let him walk away, worst case they'll tag & trade him. And if I'm the Chargers I could really care less where he wants to be traded, I'm moving him for the best deal possible. The only way I'd move him right now is if I was getting the Titans #2 pick so I could just take Mariota or Winston, I'm not sure what we could give them to really interest them all that much. A future 1st? They have to know with Rivers they are looking at a pick in the 20s. Two future 1st? Do we really want to pay that price for a 33 year old who hasn't won much and wants a $100 mil deal?

 

 

I'll gladly eat my words if it happens, but I don't think Rivers in a Bills uniform is any more than a pipe dream.

That is where his leverage comes in. He certainly wont walk in FA. He will be tagged and traded at worst. The point is that he has made enough money that he can threaten retirement if he doesn't get his way. What team is going to trade for a guy that may not even report?

On the question do we want him? I am all for a 4-5 year Super Bowl window. You would without a doubt have that. I really don't care about building a team to qualify for the playoffs. I care about winning a Super Bowl only.

[Chuck Wagon]

 

 

I dont agree with this. You guys are talking like these guys are just entering the prime of their careers. Eli/Ben/Rivers have been in the league now going on 12 years & Brees has been in the league for 15 years I believe. How much longer do you think these guys are going to be playing at a high level. I believe it is down right foolish for teams like New Orleans & the Giants not to entertain offers this year for Eli/Brees. Neither team is going anywhere with or without their QBS so imo they might as well get the 1 or 2 first round picks that some team will be foolish enough to throw at them while they still can. & for a financially strapped team like the Saints, wouldn't it make sense to shed Brees' $20 million salary this year? It is very short sighted of these teams to not even entertain offers for their franchise Qbs imo.

 

 

I've been saying for a while the Giants should be trading Eli, before he rebounded last year his numbers were in a steady decline and his contract is very movable now (his dead money is only $2.5 mil). His rebound last year could recoup a lot of his lost value from the last few years. It also seems that Giants fans wouldn't exactly be heartbroken to see him shipped off, despite his 2 SB wins. They could play Nassib to see if there's anything there and if he bombs they take the next guy.

 

 

Brees is a tougher situation. They only save $12 mil (I know, "only" $12 mil) by moving him, they don't have a young guy even Nassib's caliber to plug in and he's meant soo much to that fanbase and city. He's a guy who should retire a Saint. The fanbase would be heartbroken if they shipped him out for some draft picks.

[C.Biscuit97]

I generally agree. The couple of examples in recent years to the contrary are Alex Smith and Peyton Manning. IF the Bills had either of those guys as their QB they would be considered Super Bowl contenders. Say what you want about Smith but he is good enough to win on this team and his playoff numbers are outstanding.

The ONLY way that legitimate guys hit the market is if some weird extenuating circumstance arises. Peyton had that brutal neck injury and led them to Luck while Kaepernick went nuts and everyone thought that he was the future of the game. The SD situation could fall into that weird circumstance. Rivers will not be under contract. He has enough money to actually walk away. The team isn't about to be competitive. He has the upper hand in many ways. The Chargers may be presented with an ultimatum that they have no choice but to accept.

 

I agree that guys like Brees, Eli and Big Ben wont be on the move. The Rivers situation is an anomaly and for that reason could actually happen. I would venture to say that if Rivers presented the Chargers with a list of teams that he would want to be traded to the Bills and Texans would be at the top.

Agree with most of your post. I don't agree about Smith. IMO, he is a slightly better version of Cassel. Everything has to absolutely to be perfect for him to win. A qb who can't throw a td to a receiver is almost unbelievable. I think KC is torn because I think deep down, they know he isn't good enough to win a SB.

 

That said, Smith is the exact reason why you never give up on a young QB early. I think Manuel is further along in his career than Smith was at a similar point. Manuel was able to throw multiple tds passes to receivers in 4 games last year!

 

This is a great analysis of the situation. And also don't forget that SD let Brees go to make room for Rivers. Getting Rivers would give the Bills the most talented roster in the NFL. (I still think we can make the Playoffs and be dangerous with Cassel or improved EJ, but would trade this years 2nd and next 1st for Rivers)

Brees also hurt his shoulder.

That is where his leverage comes in. He certainly wont walk in FA. He will be tagged and traded at worst. The point is that he has made enough money that he can threaten retirement if he doesn't get his way. What team is going to trade for a guy that may not even report?

On the question do we want him? I am all for a 4-5 year Super Bowl window. You would without a doubt have that. I really don't care about building a team to qualify for the playoffs. I care about winning a Super Bowl only.

I get this but after 15 years, shouldn't the playoffs be the goal? Also given some of the wildcard teams that have won SBs recently, just qulaitfy is enough. Eli Manning might be the worst QB ever with multiple rings but it's about getting into the dance and getting hot.

[Gordio]

 

I agree with this also. Why would the Chargers hold onto Brees if they could obtain a bevy of draft picks that help them get their next QB. Colts did this (in a way) to get Luck. Ben won't be moving though. He just had the best year of his career (arguably) last year, and with A. Brown and L. Bell, that team will still be very dangero

 

Maybe it is but I am in New Orleans. They are more likely to trade every guy on that roster than they are to trade Brees.

 

Yep I hear ya, I just don't think it is very smart business to run a team this way. The Saints are not going to be good with or without Brees. Might as well blow the whole thing up & start stockpiling the draft picks. I know fans don't want to hear that & it is painful but in the Saints case I think it really makes sense especially considering what a sellers market it is for QBs right now.

[Chuck Wagon]

I think the issue with trading him somewhere he may not want to go (I'll use the Browns as an example since that came up as an option in a 3-way trade for the chargers to trade for Mariota) is that the new team will need to work out an extension with him since he's a FA in 2016. If Rives isn't interested in doing a long term deal with the new team, it is crazy to trade a top pick for a guy you may only have for a year. This makes it hard to trade him as he likely has a very short list of places he is willing to sign with long term.

 

 

If I'm the Chargers, his willingness to resign on a new team isn't really my problem. If he gives me a list of the Bills and Texans they are only offering a few 2nds while the Browns go ahead and Brown by tossing me their 2 1sts and change, I'm taking the best offer for my team.

 

He is a type of player that doesn't normally hit the market. Some desperate team would be willing to give up something major for him. If I'm trading him, the team that gives the best offer is where he's going. His contract demands and potential to retire is something a team like the Browns would need to worry about.

 

At the end of the day, I really think he just wants one last big $100 mil deal. Complaining about a potential move to LA, saying you lack faith in the team or threatening retirement are ancillary points, he's in contract negotiation time and he wants his final big cashout.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

If I'm the Chargers, his willingness to resign on a new team isn't really my problem. If he gives me a list of the Bills and Texans they are only offering a few 2nds while the Browns go ahead and Brown by tossing me their 2 1sts and change, I'm taking the best offer for my team.

 

He is a type of player that doesn't normally hit the market. Some desperate team would be willing to give up something major for him. If I'm trading him, the team that gives the best offer is where he's going. His contract demands and potential to retire is something a team like the Browns would need to worry about.

 

At the end of the day, I really think he just wants one last big $100 mil deal. Complaining about a potential move to LA, saying you lack faith in the team or threatening retirement are ancillary points, he's in contract negotiation time and he wants his final big cashout.

it wouldn't matter to the Chargers. What I'm saying is that the Browns won't realistically make the trade without first agreeing to an extension with him. I don't think he would be open to it, hence, no trade.

[Kirby Jackson]

Agree with most of your post. I don't agree about Smith. IMO, he is a slightly better version of Cassel. Everything has to absolutely to be perfect for him to win. A qb who can't throw a td to a receiver is almost unbelievable. I think KC is torn because I think deep down, they know he isn't good enough to win a SB.

 

That said, Smith is the exact reason why you never give up on a young QB early. I think Manuel is further along in his career than Smith was at a similar point. Manuel was able to throw multiple tds passes to receivers in 4 games last year!

Brees also hurt his shoulder.

I get this but after 15 years, shouldn't the playoffs be the goal? Also given some of the wildcard teams that have won SBs recently, just qulaitfy is enough. Eli Manning might be the worst QB ever with multiple rings but it's about getting into the dance and getting hot.

Smith was always in a weird situation but I do agree that EJ was ahead of him at the same point in their careers (certainly not now though). Smith's receivers were awful but will be better with Maclin. On this Bills roster he could win. These windows don't stay open long look at San Francisco and Denver. You can't be in a situation where the rest of your team is good enough and your QB isn't. By the time that your QB is ready the rest of your roster isn't. It is tough to sync those 2 aspects up.

 

Smith to me is in that Flacco, Eli tier. Guys that wont carry you on their own but can get the job done on a good team. Tannehill may move into that group this year (I like him less than most on here). I also think that if things go right that Bradford could end up in this group (not likely that he will ever stay healthy) but that is why I advocated for him. The Bills roster is good enough that they do not need Andrew luck to get to the Super Bowl. If you took the QB out of play the Bills roster is 4 games better than Indy.

 

On the last point the playoffs is never the goal to me. I think that the Bills will make the playoffs this year. I do not think that they are Super Bowl contenders (I hope that I am wrong). If you inserted Rivers into the lineup they are instant contenders.

 

Just to be clear I do not believe that Rivers will end up here. The Bills would absolutely LOVE it and will do whatever they can to make it happen. They just don't have the ammo. I am just trying to paint a picture as to why it makes a lot of sense to me and that it isn't that crazy. Naming any random franchise QB IS crazy but this weird situation with the Chargers makes it possible (at least slightly).

 

 

I agree with this also. Why would the Chargers hold onto Brees if they could obtain a bevy of draft picks that help them get their next QB. Colts did this (in a way) to get Luck. Ben won't be moving though. He just had the best year of his career (arguably) last year, and with A. Brown and L. Bell, that team will still be very dangero

 

Maybe it is but I am in New Orleans. They are more likely to trade every guy on that roster than they are to trade Brees.

 

Yep I hear ya, I just don't think it is very smart business to run a team this way. The Saints are not going to be good with or without Brees. Might as well blow the whole thing up & start stockpiling the draft picks. I know fans don't want to hear that & it is painful but in the Saints case I think it really makes sense especially considering what a sellers market it is for QBs right now.

 

I agree with this. They are in a tough place.

it wouldn't matter to the Chargers. What I'm saying is that the Browns won't realistically make the trade without first agreeing to an extension with him. I don't think he would be open to it, hence, no trade.

Exactly

[BELLABEANER]

I would give up my entire draft next year to get him. This trade would make us a Superbowl contender. Rumor is he wants out of San Diego. Could probably get four years out of him. Maybe five. He supposedly Wants to go to Tennessee. Maybe we could talk him in to coming here. Its now or never for this team. Rework some contracts. Maybe even sign him to an extension to lower his cap number.