Rivers in 2016?

[NoSaint]

 

 

The "How many players would start for us?" is a dangerous game. How many Pats would start for us? How many Browns? I come close to the same number for each and they couldn't be further from each other.

its kirbys point that we have a VERY good roster, and if you add rivers, we should look better than SD who is leaning heavily on rivers to carry a less talented roster to the same record. while its not an infallible way to illustrate that, in this case i think it makes his point pretty well. the pats are a similar example. give brady our roster and it could be all time great. Edited March 25, 2015 by NoSaint

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

The "How many players would start for us?" is a dangerous game. How many Pats would start for us? How many Browns? I come close to the same number for each and they couldn't be further from each other.

That is true but it speaks to the power of a good QB. That was the point of this thread. Rivers carried his bad team to 9 wins. The Browns bad QBs did not. The Pats last year actually had as much talent as they have had in a long time. I like McCourty, Gronk, Edleman, Collins, Revis, Browner, Wilfork and a couple of offensive linemen. They may not be as talented as the Bills position for position but they were decent last year. I am expecting them to take a step back this year (10-11 win team).

its kirbys point that we have a VERY good roster, and if you add rivers, we should look better than SD who is leaning heavily on rivers to carry a less talented roster to the same record. while its not an infallible way to illustrate that, in this case i think it makes his point pretty well. the pats are a similar example. give brady our roster and it could be all time great.

Exactly!! If Brady had the Bills roster I think that 14-16 wins is not out of the question as crazy as that sounds.

[Chuck Wagon]

its kirbys point that we have a VERY good roster, and if you add rivers, we should look better than SD who is leaning heavily on rivers to carry a less talented roster to the same record.

 

 

I'm not disputing that. I've said I think Rivers is a good player. I just don't place him on the same level as Brady / Rodgers and think it's crazy to suggest 3 1st round picks or Dareus for him like some have. He's got 7 kids, he likes hunting and fishing, that could play very well with our current roster and the city, or he could follow Borland/Willis/Worilds and say "It's been real, but I want to be able to spend time of my family".

 

Personally I'd be shocked if the Chargers moved him this year, although as has been touched on it wouldn't be the worst idea given their roster. As I've suggested previously, I'd be all over it if the price is right (our 2nd, a conditional pick next year and EJ to give them a young option). I'd also be surprised if they let him hit FA after this year, though I do believe we should be on his doorstep at 12:01 if that's the case.

 

I guess I don't even understand the debate. Seems some people believe we should trade our next 3 drafts for him and some believe he's empty fluff, as with most message board arguments the truth lies somewhere in between.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

a bit of a cop out, but its your right.... if you are going to come in and post a critical link, it seems reasonable to partake in the discussion going on.

not a cop out., I just don't want to argue something that will most likely NEVER happen

 

It's also very likely that I have already answered (or avoided) this question as to not beat a dead horse (search for Trade for Brees) it is the same thing with a different name.

Edited March 25, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I'm not disputing that. I've said I think Rivers is a good player. I just don't place him on the same level as Brady / Rodgers and think it's crazy to suggest 3 1st round picks or Dareus for him like some have. He's got 7 kids, he likes hunting and fishing, that could play very well with our current roster and the city, or he could follow Borland/Willis/Worilds and say "It's been real, but I want to be able to spend time of my family".

 

Personally I'd be shocked if the Chargers moved him this year, although as has been touched on it wouldn't be the worst idea given their roster. As I've suggested previously, I'd be all over it if the price is right (our 2nd, a conditional pick next year and EJ to give them a young option). I'd also be surprised if they let him hit FA after this year, though I do believe we should be on his doorstep at 12:01 if that's the case.

 

I guess I don't even understand the debate. Seems some people believe we should trade our next 3 drafts for him and some believe he's empty fluff, as with most message board arguments the truth lies somewhere in between.

Just to be clear, I don't have him in the Brady/Rodgers class either. I do have him in the group though that would make this Bills roster an instant Super Bowl contender and maybe the favorite in the AFC. For me I would probably give more than most. I would give this year's 2 and next year's 1&2. In part, because I do not think that the Bills have many holes (OG and LB). There are not going to be a lot of opportunities for young players here over the next few years (kind of like SF a couple of years ago when they had all of those picks). I am fine with selling out to try to win a title even if it seems like a steep price.

 

He certainly has the threat of retirement which will do 2 things. It will allow him to "dictate" where he goes and it will keep the cost down for him. I don't see him ever hitting the FA market but could definitely see him giving the Chargers a list of a few teams (I would expect to see the Bills and Texans on that list) and asking them to work something out there.

[NoSaint]

Just to be clear, I don't have him in the Brady/Rodgers class either. I do have him in the group though that would make this Bills roster an instant Super Bowl contender and maybe the favorite in the AFC. For me I would probably give more than most. I would give this year's 2 and next year's 1&2. In part, because I do not think that the Bills have many holes (OG and LB). There are not going to be a lot of opportunities for young players here over the next few years (kind of like SF a couple of years ago when they had all of those picks). I am fine with selling out to try to win a title even if it seems like a steep price.

 

He certainly has the threat of retirement which will do 2 things. It will allow him to "dictate" where he goes and it will keep the cost down for him. I don't see him ever hitting the FA market but could definitely see him giving the Chargers a list of a few teams (I would expect to see the Bills and Texans on that list) and asking them to work something out there.

and i think by default if doing picks 2-3 years out it would come with a new contract, and just like you could write in escalators, you could write in conditions for returning picks if we see retirement within the next 2 years potentially.

 

im not holding my breath, but i think your assessment is pretty fair IF things went that direction.

not a cop out., I just don't want to argue something that will most likely NEVER happen

 

It's also very likely that I have already answered (or avoided) this question as to not beat a dead horse (search for Trade for Brees) it is the same thing with a different name.

then why come to the thread to post the link you did, if you had no interest in the discussion?

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

then why come to the thread to post the link you did, if you had no interest in the discussion?

OK lets annoy everyone with a continuation of this garbage. I came here and made a post jokingly to a poster about this very thing. - endless arguments over the merits of Rivers.

 

I then made a comment about the Dolts (Chargers) history - winning in the regular season and falling short in the Post Season with Norv as HC. which is true and not some hypothetical notion

 

I then found another article that showed yet another comparison WRT another post season loss AFTER Norv The Ghost of ,......

 

Heaven forbid if someone FAILS to praise Rivers. So please - I do not want to continue this particular hypothetical conversation. thank you for respecting my wishes.

[RyanC883]

the Chargers are crazy if they let him hit FA w/o getting anything. I would easily trade the 2nd this year and 1st next year for him, if he would sign a 5 year contract. That gives us a 5 year window (at least) to be SB contenders. Then draft a QB in one of the next 1-5 drafts (or each year) and let that QB learn from Rivers. This could setup the Bills for 10+ years if they hit on a quality QB who learns well from Rivers. (Green Bay style. Farve/Rodgers; or even NE: Bledsoe/Brady).

[thebandit27]

OK lets annoy everyone with a continuation of this garbage. I came here and made a post jokingly to a poster about this very thing. - endless arguments over the merits of Rivers.

 

I then made a comment about the Dolts (Chargers) history - winning in the regular season and falling short in the Post Season with Norv as HC. which is true and not some hypothetical notion

 

I then found another article that showed yet another comparison WRT another post season loss AFTER Norv The Ghost of ,......

 

Heaven forbid if someone FAILS to praise Rivers. So please - I do not want to continue this particular hypothetical conversation. thank you for respecting my wishes.

 

No offense man: it's not that difficult. Just don't respond.

[Kirby Jackson]

OK lets annoy everyone with a continuation of this garbage. I came here and made a post jokingly to a poster about this very thing. - endless arguments over the merits of Rivers.

 

I then made a comment about the Dolts (Chargers) history - winning in the regular season and falling short in the Post Season with Norv as HC. which is true and not some hypothetical notion

 

I then found another article that showed yet another comparison WRT another post season loss AFTER Norv The Ghost of ,......

 

Heaven forbid if someone FAILS to praise Rivers. So please - I do not want to continue this particular hypothetical conversation. thank you for respecting my wishes.

No one asked you to praise him. The only request made was that if you were going to enter into a thread discussing Philip Rivers that you actually had an opinion on the player. I still have no idea what your opinion is? We know that you, like most, think that Norv Turner is a bad football coach. The question was what would you give for Rivers? A bag of football? 3 1st round picks?

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

No offense man: it's not that difficult. Just don't respond.

none taken, you sir are correct. I am as big a fool for arguing with them. its my OCD

 

No one asked you to praise him. The only request made was that if you were going to enter into a thread discussing Philip Rivers that you actually had an opinion on the player. I still have no idea what your opinion is? We know that you, like most, think that Norv Turner is a bad football coach. The question was what would you give for Rivers? A bag of football? 3 1st round picks?

I gave you my opinion a long time ago. You sir refuse to comprehend and or accept what I posted.

Edited March 25, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[Kirby Jackson]

you sir are correct. I am as big a fool for arguing with them. its my OCD

 

I gave you my opinion a long time ago. You sir refuse to comprehend and or accept what I posted.

No offense, but I did not follow. I remember that you would ONLY trade for Brees if you could guarantee a certain performance or something. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you what will happen in 9 months. If I could I would be an AMAZING GM. I guess that you do not like the player? I know that you said that you would not trade EJ for Rivers. I did not know if that meant that you would not trade a 7th round pick for him though? It really wasn't that difficult a question. What (if anything) would you be willing to give up for Rivers?

[metzelaars_lives]

No offense, but I did not follow. I remember that you would ONLY trade for Brees if you could guarantee a certain performance or something. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you what will happen in 9 months. If I could I would be an AMAZING GM. I guess that you do not like the player? I know that you said that you would not trade EJ for Rivers. I did not know if that meant that you would not trade a 7th round pick for him though? It really wasn't that difficult a question. What (if anything) would you be willing to give up for Rivers?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Did Bills fan 4 ever really say he wouldn't trade EJ Manuel for Philip Rivers? I went back a page or two and couldn't find it. I think Bills fan 4 ever I a little naïve to think that getting Rivers is going to be impossible. I happen to think he is going to be available and where else would you rather go if you were a QB trying to win a Super Bowl than the Bills right now? It is an ideal situation for a QB. I don't think it's that far-fetched at all to think that Rivers is in play in 2016. Also, did he really cite one game where the Chargers blew a lead in an effort to illustrate that Rivers isn't actually all that good when he spends most of his time condemning people for saying EJ Manuel isn't that good? Am I missing something here?

[NoSaint]

No offense, but I did not follow. I remember that you would ONLY trade for Brees if you could guarantee a certain performance or something. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you what will happen in 9 months. If I could I would be an AMAZING GM. I guess that you do not like the player? I know that you said that you would not trade EJ for Rivers. I did not know if that meant that you would not trade a 7th round pick for him though? It really wasn't that difficult a question. What (if anything) would you be willing to give up for Rivers?

i think its fair to say it wasnt clear beyond not wanting to trade EJ, and hating big cap hits that the star qbs have... otherwise, im not clear on his stance either. rivers is a very good qb - he has some flaws. i dont feel like you are demanding only praise, but simply asking to clarify the stance. Questions like what would you trade, or id say a fair one is where would you rate him among starting qbs, would be obvious discussion points... but i suppose we should veer back towards talking about rivers instead of about BF4E

[metzelaars_lives]

i think its fair to say it wasnt clear beyond not wanting to trade EJ, and hating big cap hits that the star qbs have... otherwise, im not clear on his stance either. rivers is a very good qb - he has some flaws. i dont feel like you are demanding only praise, but simply asking to clarify the stance. Questions like what would you trade, or id say a fair one is where would you rate him among starting qbs, would be obvious discussion points... but i suppose we should veer back towards talking about rivers instead of about BF4E

If the Bills had Philip Rivers right now, they would be considered a top 2-3 team in the league going into this season, if not #1. With the three-headed monster at QB, they are probably somewhere in the mid-teens, maybe like around 13-14 or so.

Edited March 25, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[Kirby Jackson]

i think its fair to say it wasnt clear beyond not wanting to trade EJ, and hating big cap hits that the star qbs have... otherwise, im not clear on his stance either. rivers is a very good qb - he has some flaws. i dont feel like you are demanding only praise, but simply asking to clarify the stance. Questions like what would you trade, or id say a fair one is where would you rate him among starting qbs, would be obvious discussion points... but i suppose we should veer back towards talking about rivers instead of about BF4E

 

I do not realistically see Rivers as available this year UNLESS a plan to move the team to LA is released in the next month or so. If it is they may tear it down and have an epic tank job!! They can start fresh in LA with an extremely early pick and a ton of cap space. There will be about 200 people in the stands each week if that were to happen. Other than that 2016 seems a lot more realistic to me.

[ALF]

Would the Titans trade there 1st rd pick for Rivers?

 

Nashville is 116 miles from Decatur,Al his hometown

Edited April 9, 2015 by ALF

[papazoid]

Would the Titans trade there 1st rd pick for Rivers?

 

 

if they were smart they would....but i doubt SD would be that stupid

[YoloinOhio]

He's been backed by a top a 10 D 3 times in the last 5 years (#1 in 2010). This has resulted in 1 playoff year, 1 playoff win.

 

Besides, why would SD let him go?

i would be surprised if Rivers isn't traded by draft day.The Chargers are almost certainly going to be in LA next year and Rivers has been steadfast that he isn't moving there. The practice facility isn't going to be commutable from SD. This is the last year they hold his rights. They love Mariota. They feel this is the time to start over. Imo They are going to take him and a RB (Gordon most likely) in the first and trade Rivers and picks to Tennesee.

If they weren't going to move, I don't think anything would happen with Rivers.

Edited April 14, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[1billsfan]

i would be surprised if Rivers isn't traded by draft day.The Chargers are almost certainly going to be in LA next year and Rivers has been steadfast that he isn't moving there. The practice facility isn't going to be commutable from SD. This is the last year they hold his rights. They love Mariota. They feel this is the time to start over. Imo They are going to take him and a RB (Gordon most likely) in the first and trade Rivers and picks to Tennesee.

If they weren't going to move, I don't think anything would happen with Rivers.

 

I think the Chargers will do all they can to get Mariota. They want that "STAR" QB for the LA market and the plus is he's got huge name recognition on the west coast. There's probably a whole lot going on behind the scenes since Tampa is cooling from Winston and they are probably hearing Mariota doesn't want to go there, he wants to go to the LA Chargers.

 

Maybe Tampa ends up trading that pick to the Chargers for a few picks. I don't think Tampa wants Winston at all and it probably stems from the female part owner hearing what he said on that cafeteria table top.

 

Where does Winston end up? Probably to the Jets.