Kirby Jackson Posted March 24, 2015 Author Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) if he has 5 more good years (and especially if he gets a ring), hes got a pretty good resume. as kirby points out, hes entering that "last big deal" stage that brees, manning and brady are all on the way out of soon. its not unrealistic that he could have 5 solid years left. i normally hate the dramatic flair of we could win a SB with 1 player, but i think hed be in the list of players that would give us a good shot - between the size of the boost hed give the offense and length of time he might play, its not unreasonable. Just out of curiosity what would you give for Rivers? For me I think a 1st & 2 2nds would be a no brainer. I am sure that whatever picks are dealt will have some conditions. Completely different game from when Jim played and many believe Kelly shouldn't be in the HOF. Testeverde, Bledsoe and Kerry Collins have some pretty nice career statistics as well. 4 playoff wins in 11 years.... If he has 5 more 3,000 yard seaons (not at all far fetched) he will be over 50,000 passing yards. If he has 5 more seasons averaging 25 TDs that would also be in the top 6-7 all-time. This guy plays in a passer friendly era but his career will stack up. He is certainly on a HOF path at this point. To the last point Warren Moon won 3 playoff games, Joe Namath 2, Dan Fouts 3, Otto Graham 4, Norm Van Brocklin 2, Sammy Baugh 3, George Blanda 2, and Tony Romo 2. A lot of great QBs haven't won a lot of playoff games for one reason or another. Edited March 24, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
NoSaint Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Just out of curiosity what would you give for Rivers? For me I think a 1st & 2 2nds would be a no brainer. I am sure that whatever picks are dealt will have some conditions. If he has 5 more 3,000 yard seaons (not at all far fetched) he will be over 50,000 passing yards. If he has 5 more seasons averaging 25 TDs that would also be in the top 6-7 all-time. This guy plays in a passer friendly era but his career will stack up. He is certainly on a HOF path at this point. To the last point Warren Moon won 3 playoff games, Joe Namath 2, Dan Fouts 3, Otto Graham 4, Norm Van Brocklin 2, Sammy Baugh 3, George Blanda 2, and Tony Romo 2. A lot of great QBs haven't won a lot of playoff games for one reason or another. im a bit torn on the value. hadnt given it much thought as to where id draw the line as a high end. Id say a 2nd and a midrounder this year, plus a pick or two next year that can escalate all the way to 1 would not phase me. obviously with a long term extension. I dont know that it would ever get to MAX value for him (or a 1, 1, and 2 situation) because as you note -- he has a hell of a lot of power in the current spot, if he wants to use it. i dont think it would be crazy for him to pick 2-3 teams and say work out a deal, or im done, if hes the type of guy he seems to be. if thats the case, the bidding war may be pretty limited. still would be a premium amount but not true open market. that said, i still think SD puts up a good fight to keep him and hes got a long way to go before being out the door. Edited March 24, 2015 by NoSaint
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) If Rivers were available and agrees to a 4 year extension, takes him to age 38. I would trade 3 1st round picks, 2016, 2017, and 2018. Basically you are saying this team should finish no worse than 28th the next 3 years. 3 late 1st round picks do not help me win more than Rivers. Entering Rivers final year we have a 1st to spend on a QB.. Edited March 24, 2015 by TheTruthHurts
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 If Rivers were available and agrees to a 4 year extension, takes him to age 38. I would trade 3 1st round picks, 2016, 2017, and 2018. Basically you are saying this team should finish no worse than 28th the next 3 years. 3 late 1st round picks do not help me win more than Rivers. Entering Rivers final year we have a 1st to spend on a QB.. And if this team tanked, you pretty much destroyed your future. And yet again, Rivers isn't going anywhere.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 And if this team tanked, you pretty much destroyed your future. Well do you want a QB or not. Im not planning on being bad.
mikemac2001 Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 there was talk at one point about giving cassel an extension to reduce his cap hit, and also keep him out of FA next year if they wanted to keep him. Hasn't happened though (yet).@viccarucci: The #Bills are looking to extend the 1-year, $4.75-million contract of QB Matt Cassel to make it cap friendlier.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 I don't believe Rivers makes the HOF, I see him as only slightly above the Bledsoe/Testaverde level of QBs and no one is mentioning their name and HOF in the same sentence. I would agree. but then I'd get thrashed for doing so, I often wonder Was it Norv's fault the Dolts won so many in-season games then flopped in the postseason.....
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2015 Author Posted March 25, 2015 And if this team tanked, you pretty much destroyed your future. And yet again, Rivers isn't going anywhere. I'm curious to hear from you on this. What would you give for Rivers?
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2015 Author Posted March 25, 2015 I would agree. but then I'd get thrashed for doing so, I often wonder Was it Norv's fault the Dolts won so many in-season games then flopped in the postseason..... They were a bad team pretty much forever. Without Rivers they are about a 3 win team to me. How many guys on SD would start on the Bills? Less than 5?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 They were a bad team pretty much forever. Without Rivers they are about a 3 win team to me. How many guys on SD would start on the Bills? Less than 5? Ghost of Norv? San Diego Chargers blow 21-point second-half lead at home to Houston Texans http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/ghost-norv-san-diego-chargers-blow-24-point-062319955--nfl.html;_ylt=AwrC1Cn0shJVkikAeyFNbK5_;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2015 Author Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Ghost of Norv? San Diego Chargers blow 21-point second-half lead at home to Houston Texans http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/ghost-norv-san-diego-chargers-blow-24-point-062319955--nfl.html;_ylt=AwrC1Cn0shJVkikAeyFNbK5_;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw-- That kind of speaks to my point. They are not very good. How many guys on SD would start for the Bills besides for Rivers? I think that 5 is the max: Keenan Allen, Orlando Franklin (wasn't there before), Eric Weddle and MAYBE Fluker and Butler. That is it. They finished with the same record as the Bills and beat them in Buffalo. Rivers is outstanding. They compete for playoff berths BECAUSE of him, not DESPITE him. It is a complete 180 from what we are accustomed to. Same question for you BF-4-E, what would you trade for Rivers if he were in fact available? Edited March 25, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
Chuck Wagon Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) That kind of speaks to my point. They are not very good. How many guys on SD would start for the Bills besides for Rivers? I think that 5 is the max: Keenan Allen, Orlando Franklin (wasn't there before), Eric Weddle and MAYBE Fluker and Butler. That is it. They finished with the same record as the Bills and beat them in Buffalo. Rivers is outstanding. They compete for playoff berths BECAUSE of him, not DESPITE him. It is a complete 180 from what we are accustomed to. Same question for you BF-4-E, what would you trade for Rivers if he were in fact available? For a good chunk of his career he had Tomlinson, Michael Turner, Sproles, Gates & Vincent Jackson. He hasn't exactly been dragging Chris Hogan and Scott Chandler to the playoffs. Obviously the talent has fallen off sharply (basically since AJ Smith won his power play), but some of those mid-late '00s Chargers teams were easily among the most talented teams in the league. He's a great player, I've long been a fan, but I don't see him being worth 3 1st round picks like some people given his age and contract status. He's a family guy, given the current climate it wouldn't be shocking to see him hang it up in the next couple of seasons. Edited March 25, 2015 by Chuck Wagon
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2015 Author Posted March 25, 2015 For a good chunk of his career he had Tomlinson, Michael Turner, Sproles, Gates & Vincent Jackson. He hasn't exactly been dragging Chris Hogan and Scott Chandler to the playoffs. Obviously the talent has fallen off sharply (basically since AJ Smith won his power play), but some of those mid-late '00s Chargers teams were easily among the most talented teams in the league. He's a great player, I've long been a fan, but I don't see him being worth 3 1st round picks like some people given his age and contract status. He's a family guy, given the current climate it wouldn't be shocking to see him hang it up in the next couple of seasons. No doubt that they had some talent in the past. From 2006 - 2009 when they were really talented they won an average of 11.5 games (with an 8 win season in there). They had a bye twice in that window and won 3 playoff games. That is still pretty good. They have pretty much been a 9 win team since. I am focusing on where the player is as of right now. They won 9 games with a team that has 3 win talent. They were poorly coached then too. I happen to be a big fan of Mike McCoy. I happen to think that next to Rivers he is the most responsible for them overachieving for the last couple of years.
FireChan Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 No doubt that they had some talent in the past. From 2006 - 2009 when they were really talented they won an average of 11.5 games (with an 8 win season in there). They had a bye twice in that window and won 3 playoff games. That is still pretty good. They have pretty much been a 9 win team since. I am focusing on where the player is as of right now. They won 9 games with a team that has 3 win talent. They were poorly coached then too. I happen to be a big fan of Mike McCoy. I happen to think that next to Rivers he is the most responsible for them overachieving for the last couple of years. Rivers wins the Super Bowl in one of those years if Kaeding doesn't have a melt down.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 That kind of speaks to my point. They are not very good. How many guys on SD would start for the Bills besides for Rivers? I think that 5 is the max: Keenan Allen, Orlando Franklin (wasn't there before), Eric Weddle and MAYBE Fluker and Butler. That is it. They finished with the same record as the Bills and beat them in Buffalo. Rivers is outstanding. They compete for playoff berths BECAUSE of him, not DESPITE him. It is a complete 180 from what we are accustomed to. Same question for you BF-4-E, what would you trade for Rivers if he were in fact available? with all due respect. I will refrain from comment to minimize a back and forth that will not help in this conversation.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2015 Author Posted March 25, 2015 with all due respect. I will refrain from comment to minimize a back and forth that will not help in this conversation. So, you post a link to a game where they blew a lead but you will not answer 2 simple straight forward questions? Who on the Chargers roster would start for the Bills? if you were the GM what would you give up for Rivers (if the answer is nothing, it is nothing)? As someone that has had a lot to say on why they would NOT want Rivers I would think that you would be pretty well versed in their roster strengths and weaknesses -no? There has to be a reason that you feel that way and maybe you feel that the talent around him carried him to 9 wins. I am pretty sure that the discussion is what moves the conversation forward a lot more than a link to a poor performance.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) I made a post. I have said what I wanted to say. With respect I will not debate this with you continuously. it is THE reason I posted this in the first place. I would agree. but then I'd get thrashed for doing so, I do not have to praise every single "good" player int he NFL and wish they come to Buffalo. Edited March 25, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2015 Author Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) I made a post. I have said what I wanted to say. With respect I will not debate this with you continuously. it is THE reason I posted this in the first place. I do not have to praise every single "good" player int he NFL ans wish they come to Buffalo. Ok, so you said nothing. Why bother to comment? If we wanted to see scores of old games we can use google too. That does not go anywhere in proving your point. This is a reoccurring theme on here. Everyone is challenged to defend their opinions regardless of how crazy it may be. BB defended his Mario for Skelton proposal!! Part of the reason that you have seemingly been getting destroyed for about 2 months is because you have no basis for any of your arguments. At the same time you cannot even formulate a coherent argument. You pop into a thread about the potential availability of a borderline HOF QB and post a link to a game where they blew a lead. When asked what your thoughts are on that player you refrain from commenting. So all that you are contributing is a link to an old game?!? That is your contribution to this thread and this board?!? It is no wonder your viewpoint has garnered such little respect around here. There are people that also like EJ (like C. Biscuit) that are prepared to defend their reasoning. It does not mean that most will agree but at least he has his reasons for feeling that way. I asked you a simple question on what your thoughts are on a guy that is potentially available. As usual, you have no thoughts or anything to contribute. Why do you continue to hop from QB thread to QB thread will absolutely nothing to contribute? Edited March 25, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
NoSaint Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 I made a post. I have said what I wanted to say. With respect I will not debate this with you continuously. it is THE reason I posted this in the first place. I do not have to praise every single "good" player int he NFL and wish they come to Buffalo. a bit of a cop out, but its your right.... if you are going to come in and post a critical link, it seems reasonable to partake in the discussion going on.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 So, you post a link to a game where they blew a lead but you will not answer 2 simple straight forward questions? Who on the Chargers roster would start for the Bills? if you were the GM what would you give up for Rivers (if the answer is nothing, it is nothing)? As someone that has had a lot to say on why they would NOT want Rivers I would think that you would be pretty well versed in their roster strengths and weaknesses -no? There has to be a reason that you feel that way and maybe you feel that the talent around him carried him to 9 wins. I am pretty sure that the discussion is what moves the conversation forward a lot more than a link to a poor performance. The "How many players would start for us?" is a dangerous game. How many Pats would start for us? How many Browns? I come close to the same number for each and they couldn't be further from each other.
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