Tiberius Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 You said it, you make an argument we do. I'm not typing up a paragraph proving you made an idiotic statement so you can post an emoticon and stop posting for 2 pages. Seems a pretty easy thing to disprove, sounds like you have no argument at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Seems a pretty easy thing to disprove, sounds like you have no argument at all.Why do you insist on making unsupported claims, and then ask others to disprove them? When you make a claim, if someone opposes your claim, it is then for you to prove your claim. Edited April 12, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Seems a pretty easy thing to disprove, sounds like you have no argument at all. No, because I don't know what "rights" you've made up in your head. You're asking me to disprove something that you haven't put to page, you moron. If I just show the definition as a right, and the implications of said definition, you'll claim I'm obfuscating. Here's how an argument goes between two normal people. Claim-evidence-counter claim-counter evidence. With no evidence, you have no claim, you're just spewing nonsense. Just tell me something retarded, like we have "the right to the internet" or some bull ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Why do you insist on making unsupported claims, and then ask others to disprove them? When you make a claim, if someone opposes your claim, it is then for you to prove your claim. Ok, fair enough Tasker. 1) the media has been massively decentralized and democratized by the Internet. No longer do monolithic media giants control whats said and reported to any where near the degree that they use to. Twitter has further put people in direct touch with politicians, newsmakers and others with a point of view unfiltered by a media. 2) lack of freedom associated with racial, gender or sexual orientation have been fought shiner and major victories won. The year I was born Virgia didn't allow the freedom of a black man and white woman to marry, not two guys can marry in many states 3) freedom of expression has also expanded, also through the Internet and other technologies 4) economic expansion since WW2 has massivly increased freedom of choice, opportunity and privacy, living space and educational freedom. No, because I don't know what "rights" you've made up in your head. You're asking me to disprove something that you haven't put to page, you moron. If I just show the definition as a right, and the implications of said definition, you'll claim I'm obfuscating. Here's how an argument goes between two normal people. Claim-evidence-counter claim-counter evidence. With no evidence, you have no claim, you're just spewing nonsense. Just tell me something retarded, like we have "the right to the internet" or some bull ****. Sorry, it just seems so self evident that you wouldn't actually need it spelled out for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 You are right, this whole thing is taking time to absorb. So Apple will come after me now? Exxon? This makes so little sense that I just don't know what to say. And if it were a foreign government or a drug cartel--again, not sure why they would want me?--but I'd expect our government to treat that as an attack or a crime. But I have a question. First, I meant to watch the John Oliver thing but no time yet this busy weekend, i'll get to it. But if this system is so power how come there is still so many crimes and criminal enterprises operating? Why isn't this all power eye in the sky clamping down with all its power? Again, I explained and answered that question in post 35. "The only thing that has prevented it from happening are the people currently in power. How much faith in those elected representatives keeping to the straight and narrow without abusing what essentially is unlimited power over the individual do you actually have? Hasn't there been enough political malfeasance over your lifetime to make you at least a little suspicious or hesitant to willingly surrender your individual right to privacy and due process to a faceless, nameless government entity with zero oversight?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Again, I explained and answered that question in post 35."The only thing that has prevented it from happening are the people currently in power. How much faith in those elected representatives keeping to the straight and narrow without abusing what essentially is unlimited power over the individual do you actually have? Hasn't there been enough political malfeasance over your lifetime to make you at least a little suspicious or hesitant to willingly surrender your individual right to privacy and due process to a faceless, nameless government entity with zero oversight?" And I answers that by saying it's no different than at any other time. It's always depended on the people in power, technology or no technology. Why my lifetime? There has ALWAYS been corruption, abuse of power, etc. I hardly think one semi-secret court looking for terrorists is going to grow--and in your mind include Exxon?? :/ ---to swallow up our liberties. Just makes no damn sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 And I answers that by saying it's no different than at any other time. It's always depended on the people in power, technology or no technology. Why my lifetime? There has ALWAYS been corruption, abuse of power, etc. I hardly think one semi-secret court looking for terrorists is going to grow--and in your mind include Exxon?? :/ ---to swallow up our liberties. Just makes no damn sense at all. It makes no sense to you because you still aren't seeing the forest through the trees. This is very different than any other point in history, the scope of power is almost unimaginable. You can't compare it to any other state power in the history of history, continuing to try to do so only exposes how ignorant you are on this subject. If you don't think large corporations aren't already mining your meta-data and anything else they can get their hands on digitally, you're living in denial. Which isn't surprising since you're so completely unwilling to do any sort of research on your own into this topic. I imagine if you actually understood what was being discussed here, you of all people, would be the most indignant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 1) It makes no sense to you because you still aren't seeing the forest through the trees. This is very different than any other point in history, the scope of power is almost unimaginable. You can't compare it to any other state power in the history of history, continuing to try to do so only exposes how ignorant you are on this subject. If you don't think large corporations aren't already mining your meta-data and anything else they can get their hands on digitally, you're living in denial. Which isn't surprising since you're so completely unwilling to do any sort of research on your own into this topic. I imagine if you actually understood what was being discussed here, you of all people, would be the most indignant. 1) No it makes no sense because the scenerio you described could have happened at any point in history and didn't need this technology to succeed. This "unimaginable all powerful super duper force" that can't be stopped OMG, still has to be used by someone and not opposed by someone else. Our whole system is based upon checks to power. Call me when one person, organization of faction is ready to take over. 2) I already told you I don't give a crap that a large corporation knows I buy pumpkin pie a lot. Your tired, stupid argument keeps falling up the argument that only you understand the danger. Whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Ok, fair enough Tasker. 1) the media has been massively decentralized and democratized by the Internet. No longer do monolithic media giants control whats said and reported to any where near the degree that they use to. Twitter has further put people in direct touch with politicians, newsmakers and others with a point of view unfiltered by a media. 2) lack of freedom associated with racial, gender or sexual orientation have been fought shiner and major victories won. The year I was born Virgia didn't allow the freedom of a black man and white woman to marry, not two guys can marry in many states 3) freedom of expression has also expanded, also through the Internet and other technologies 4) economic expansion since WW2 has massivly increased freedom of choice, opportunity and privacy, living space and educational freedom. There we go. However, none of those are actual freedoms gained, only avenues that our freedoms take. Except the marriage one. And conversely, we lost our freedom to privacy, our freedom to not suffer unreasonable search and seizure, and anything else the PATRIOT Act and its ilk can do. Those were things we had been told were inalienable. I would say that's a net loss in freedoms, no? 1) No it makes no sense because the scenerio you described could have happened at any point in history and didn't need this technology to succeed. This "unimaginable all powerful super duper force" that can't be stopped OMG, still has to be used by someone and not opposed by someone else. Our whole system is based upon checks to power. Call me when one person, organization of faction is ready to take over. 2) I already told you I don't give a crap that a large corporation knows I buy pumpkin pie a lot. Your tired, stupid argument keeps falling up the argument that only you understand the danger. Whatever http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... Edited April 13, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 There we go. However, none of those are actual freedoms gained, only avenues that our freedoms take. Except the marriage one. And conversely, we lost our freedom to privacy, our freedom to not suffer unreasonable search and seizure, and anything else the PATRIOT Act and its ilk can do. Those were things we had been told were inalienable. I would say that's a net loss in freedoms, no? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... Voting rights, rights to advancement for minorities and women, access to education are only what? No, we have way more freedom and choices as a society than we did 50 years ago. You didn't address the media decentralization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Voting rights, rights to advancement for minorities and women, access to education are only what? No, we have way more freedom and choices as a society than we did 50 years ago. You didn't address the media decentralization 4) economic expansion since WW2 has massivly increased freedom of choice, opportunity and privacy, living space and educational freedom. This one is the clearest example. The folks that could now choose more places to live or go to school always had the freedom to do so, just not the economic means. See the distinction? A baby who cannot speak still has the freedom to speak freely. It's inherent. Media decentralization has increased the avenues for information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Voting rights, rights to advancement for minorities and women, access to education are only what? No, we have way more freedom and choices as a society than we did 50 years ago. You're confusing "rights" with "privlidges". You have more privlidges than you did 50 years ago, but far fewer rights. You didn't address the media decentralization While this was true, the death knell has sounded. Federal regulation of the internet will rapidly move to put an end to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 While this was true, the death knell has sounded. Federal regulation of the internet will rapidly move to put an end to this. Sniff, sniff, you mean....we won't be able to post here anymore?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Sniff, sniff, you mean....we won't be able to post here anymore?? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 What? When government kills the internet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 When government kills the internet... Again... What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 When government kills the internet... Your primary example of how media was decentralized was because we had websites like Twitter, who were unrestricted by the government. The government is now moving in. The internet will be centralized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Your primary example of how media was decentralized was because we had websites like Twitter, who were unrestricted by the government. The government is now moving in. The internet will be centralized. Sure it will. So according to you three, the government will watch everyone's every movement, control the internet, control twitter, read all emails and even bake a cake in its spare time. Whatever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Sure it will. So according to you three, the government will watch everyone's every movement, control the internet, control twitter, read all emails and even bake a cake in its spare time. Whatever! Don't forget controlling banking. And health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Don't forget controlling banking. And health care. Sure, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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