Deranged Rhino Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Discussing the NSA’s surveillance practices, he said: “Despite interception of the calls of everyone in the country, it has never stopped a single terrorist attack. “These programs are not public safety programs, they’re spying programs.” He conceded that such mass collection of data did provide an advantage for spying operations, but said this needed to be weighed up against the invasion of people’s privacy. “We have to have that debate honestly, we cannot simply scare people into giving up their rights,” he added. http://factor-tech.com/connected-world/16998-edward-snowden-without-change-future-surveillance-will-be-in-the-hands-of-countries-companies-and-criminals/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 It's time we banded together and filed a freedom of information act request to see what the NSA has on PPP. Are they reading our post? How about the private messages between members? Does DC Tom work for NSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 It's time we banded together and filed a freedom of information act request to see what the NSA has on PPP. Are they reading our post? How about the private messages between members? Does DC Tom work for NSA? It's time we banded together to tell you that you're a retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 It's time we banded together and filed a freedom of information act request to see what the NSA has on PPP. Are they reading our post? How about the private messages between members? Does DC Tom work for NSA? Don't worry. They're an intelligence agency, so they're not the least bit concerned with your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 It's time we banded together to tell you that you're a retard.Some right winger on here got mad about the use of the word 'retard' Just so you know Don't worry. They're an intelligence agency, so they're not the least bit concerned with your posts.Been celebrating St Pats day Tom? Douche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Some right winger on here got mad about the use of the word 'retard' You have a friend that's a right winger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 It's time we banded together and filed a freedom of information act request to see what the NSA has on PPP. Are they reading our post? How about the private messages between members? Does DC Tom work for NSA? It's amazing to me how political the subject of whether or not we wish to live in a surveillance state has become over the past 8 years. Used to be folks on the left were (rightly) up in arms about the Patriot Act and the ills that have come our way because of that. Now that Obama doubled down on it, it's no big deal. Why is that? What's changed? If the only thing that makes it okay for the state to routinely invade our privacy is the letter in front of the sitting president's name, shouldn't the prospect of an all knowing, all seeing state scare the **** out of you knowing that the electorate in this country routinely swings back and forth between republicans and democrats in the oval office? I'm actually interested to hear your thoughts on the issue. Don't worry. They're an intelligence agency, so they're not the least bit concerned with your posts. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 You have a friend that's a right winger? On here? No. It was a poster It's amazing to me how political the subject of whether or not we wish to live in a surveillance state has become over the past 8 years. Used to be folks on the left were (rightly) up in arms about the Patriot Act and the ills that have come our way because of that. Now that Obama doubled down on it, it's no big deal. Why is that? What's changed? If the only thing that makes it okay for the state to routinely invade our privacy is the letter in front of the sitting president's name, shouldn't the prospect of an all knowing, all seeing state scare the **** out of you knowing that the electorate in this country routinely swings back and forth between republicans and democrats in the oval office? I'm actually interested to hear your thoughts on the issue. :lol: I wasn't alarmed by it under Bush. 9-11 was it was. I just don't see phone calls as being subject to privacy, IMO. If you send it out over phone lines you might as well be talking in a crowded hall. If the government suspects a terrorists attack I'd want them to have powers to check and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I wasn't alarmed by it under Bush. 9-11 was it was. I just don't see phone calls as being subject to privacy, IMO. If you send it out over phone lines you might as well be talking in a crowded hall. If the government suspects a terrorists attack I'd want them to have powers to check and see. Typical Fox News drone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Typical Fox News drone... Ya, see you at the border dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 I wasn't alarmed by it under Bush. 9-11 was it was. I just don't see phone calls as being subject to privacy, IMO. If you send it out over phone lines you might as well be talking in a crowded hall. If the government suspects a terrorists attack I'd want them to have powers to check and see. You realize that the amount of surveillance we're talking about goes well beyond phone calls, right? Just through collecting your meta-data, something they've been continuously doing since the early 2000, they are quite literally able to watch your every move. The level of invasion goes well beyond tracking an email or listening to your phone calls and is not being directed only at terror suspects, foreign nations (including allies), and corporations that threaten American interests -- but also every single American citizen. It's goes against the very ideals this country was founded upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 You realize that the amount of surveillance we're talking about goes well beyond phone calls, right? Just through collecting your meta-data, something they've been continuously doing since the early 2000, they are quite literally able to watch your every move. The level of invasion goes well beyond tracking an email or listening to your phone calls and is not being directed only at terror suspects, foreign nations (including allies), and corporations that threaten American interests -- but also every single American citizen. It's goes against the very ideals this country was founded upon.Bs It's about the math that makes me not care that much. There are just too many people in the world to have other people watching them. What's your biggest fear of abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Bs It's about the math that makes me not care that much. There are just too many people in the world to have other people watching them. What's your biggest fear of abuse? Believe me, there was nothing BS about that statement. They've been collecting your metadata for over a decade, from that information they can paint an unbelievably accurate portrait of who you are, who you talk to, what causes you donate to, what belief systems you subscribe to, literally everything there is to know about you. And it'll all be 100% accurate -- accurate enough to sway any sort of court of public opinion about you if they so wished. However, just because they know who you talk to, how long you talk to them, where you go, how long you stay there, where you bank, where you shop, what you purchase, what public transportation you ride, exactly where you are located every single second of the day -- just because they know all that doesn't mean they know the truth about you, what you were doing, why you were there. All they can do is paint a picture. All of this is legal to collect and analyze without needing a warrant or any sort of judicial oversight right now, today, this very moment. You've seen Twitter outrage take down numerous public and private figures since the emergence of social media. This trend has only just begun. The populous is monitored more than ever before, and easier to manipulate than ever before.... And the US Government, not to mention foreign governments, corporations, even potentially criminal elements (according to the article) are collecting every bit of digital and analogue information about you. That should be chilling. Not because it sounds paranoid. But because it's already !@#$ing happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Don't worry. They're an intelligence agency, so they're not the least bit concerned with your posts. awww burn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 It's amazing to me how political the subject of whether or not we wish to live in a surveillance state has become over the past 8 years. Used to be folks on the left were (rightly) up in arms about the Patriot Act and the ills that have come our way because of that. Now that Obama doubled down on it, it's no big deal. This. Big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 This. Big time. It's one of those issues that we should be openly debating as a country -- but we won't, or can't. Won't because some people see it as a necessary evil, can't because others (mainly the younger generations) have already accepted it as the price we pay for being online 24/7. You can't operate in this society, either in business or in your personal life, without leaving some sort of electronic footprint because we've become so interconnected and dependent upon our technology. I'm no Luddite, I'm clearly a fan of posting online and all things digital. And I'm completely open to hearing counter arguments, but right now we're not even having the conversation, let alone a debate. What's nuts to me is that out of all the issues we debate in this country, from Health Care to gun control to whatever other political lightning rod you wish to choose, this issue is undoubtedly the most imperative issue we face as a society and civilization entering the 21st century. It's something that will absolutely define our lifetimes and our children's.The issues we call privacy today were once essential elements in how we as a nation defined liberty and freedom. Now, we've surrendered it without even a public debate. If information is power then the surveillance apparatus operating today is absolute power. Yet, we can't even talk about it. It's insane to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 If information is power then the surveillance apparatus operating today is absolute power. Yet, we can't even talk about it. It's insane to me. Absolute power? To do what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) It's amazing to me how political the subject of whether or not we wish to live in a surveillance state has become over the past 8 years. Used to be folks on the left were (rightly) up in arms about the Patriot Act and the ills that have come our way because of that. Now that Obama doubled down on it, it's no big deal. Why is that? What's changed? If the only thing that makes it okay for the state to routinely invade our privacy is the letter in front of the sitting president's name, shouldn't the prospect of an all knowing, all seeing state scare the **** out of you knowing that the electorate in this country routinely swings back and forth between republicans and democrats in the oval office? I'm actually interested to hear your thoughts on the issue. :lol: What changed? This version of the Democratic party, the Saul Alinskyites, used this issue to gain power. The Change: Now they have it. This was always a means to an end. How is the current version of the Democratic party, led by the extreme left, being completely disengenuous and hypocritical...amazing? They are cowards, obvious liars, and the most obtuse and cynical people to have ever been in the WH/Senate/House(EDIT: Senator Harry Reid, with our troops in the field and fighting, saying: "The war is lost". Need another example?) They have no values, other than self-promotion, self-aggrandizement, and self-enrichment and power accumulation. Your values, as a guy who leans left, are subject to, filtered by, and as you point out: even distorted by, those 4 main values. Thus, why would them doing a 180 on the NSA be amazing to you in any way? How is this version, pushing us to be a nation of men/women, and not a nation of laws...amazing? You've stated that the Patriot Act(a law) was a problem for Democrats? Some Ds, maybe, but not the ones in the WH/in power currently....as the IRS, spying on a Fox News reporter/listing him as an enemy of the state, and various other behaviors have already demonstrated. It's incorrect to see this in only binary terms: R or D. Everything depends on which R, and which D, we are talking about. Right now, there are very few Ds with a chance of winning the POTUS who would correct the NSA. OTOH, a number of Rs, not all, but still most, would take immediate action to correct them. It's as simple as this: whose ideology wants all power concentrated in DC, and believes it has the right to circumvent the law/Constitution whenver it sees fit? Who has a literal track record of doing this while in office? Whose ideololgy wants: 1. more power given back to the states 2. wants to see the power of the Federal governent explicitly limited to the powers granted it by the Constituton 3. truly believes in liberty first? Look, if President Bush, playing crochet on the WH lawn was something these far-left Alinskyites thought could be used to gain them power? We'd hear about it immediately through their media surrogates. The sad part is: that is not a joke/ridiculous example/exaggeration. Edited March 15, 2015 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 , this issue is undoubtedly the most imperative issue we face as a society and civilization entering the 21st century. And I thought it was climate change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 And I thought it was climate change I thought it was immigration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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