Would you, right now, trade EJ for Tannehill? Chapter 2

[r00tabaga]

I gotta give this debate to Biscuit hands down.

[billsfan1959]

We'll never know that.

 

I know I would've traded Manuel for Tanny looking at Manuel's first and Tanny's second season.

Exactly my point. You want to take into account Tannehill's improvement in second and third seasons, while ignoring the fact Manuel hasn't really had the chance to see if he could improve playing full second and third seasons. However, it doesn't surprise me. Based on the dislike you have consistently shown in your posts in reference to EJ, I doubt there is a QB you wouldn't trade him for....

[FireChan]

Exactly my point. You want to take into account Tannehill's improvement in second and third seasons, while ignoring the fact Manuel hasn't really had the chance to see if he could improve playing full second and third seasons. However, it doesn't surprise me. Based on the dislike you have consistently shown in your posts in reference to EJ, I doubt there is a QB you wouldn't trade him for....

Tanny had played his second season when EJ played his first. There's no way you could compare just their first seasons, because they happened at different times.

[Max Fischer]

I'd rather trade EJ for Brady.

[FireChan]

No. Is Tannehill better right now? Unquestionably. I want to win the Super Bowl. Playoffs are nice, but if we get there I want to win it all. I don't believe Tannehill is a guy that can do it for you. With Tannehill on our roster this year, I think we'd be a tough out in the playoffs, but a still a team that can't go all the way. I think he's limited. This team would be the best he would ever play on, and I don't think he could get it done. Then we'd have to cut guys to sign him to a huge contract and he'd have to carry them, which I don't think he could do.

 

I'll keep the unknown in EJ. Knowing that if the light doesn't come on in a big way this year, we'll be looking next year to draft the guy that can carry a team. We'd be able to keep the roster together for longer because we won't be paying a QB who can't get the job done $14m+ a year. Flame away.

Totally get that. The only problem is that in 3-4 years, we'll be losing some of the roster due to age/FA anyway. If we're "banking" on getting a Russel Wilson in the draft who can be a day one winner, the odds are even lower, IMO.

 

I disagree that our odds aren't good enough with Tanny. I think they'd be the best we could get. But you made a good argument.

Edited March 14, 2015 by FireChan

[LB3]

Totally get that. The only problem is that in 3-4 years, we'll be losing some of the roster due to age/FA anyway. If we're "banking" on getting a Russel Wilson in the draft who can be a day one winner, the odds are even lower, IMO.

 

I disagree that our odds aren't good enough with Tanny. I think they'd be the best we could get. But you made a good argument.

It's definitely a risk and you're right, the team would lose a lot of the core guys in 3/4 years. But if we hit on a guy that can carry a team, we won't need the best roster.

 

I could be wrong about Tannehill's ceiling and will be more than willing to come back and take my lumps if he continues to get better.

[Chandler#81]

I'd trade EJ for a roll of toilet paper. Much more useful

[Utah John]

EJ is still an unknown. He was trending down badly last year after the first couple of games. I think his lousy coaches got him thinking about too much and he just locked up. He has made good plays but missed so many open receivers.

 

Last year there was an analysis of RGIII on a Redskins website that showed he was just totally not getting it. Not reading defenses, not making easy plays. EJ was getting into that situation. I don't think it's time to pull the plug on either of them. Give EJ a chance with good coaches and a decent O-line, and let him play safe if necessary dealing the ball to the skill players the Bills have accumulated. Right now I think Cassel has the edge from his experience, but I think EJ has a better arm and more upside.

 

I would trade EJ for Tannahill, of course I would. I'm not sure Tannahill has reached his potential, and he's demonstrated that at least he gets it. That might be all the Bills need right now, is a QB who gets it. And a guard and a TE.

[FireChan]

It's definitely a risk and you're right, the team would lose a lot of the core guys in 3/4 years. But if we hit on a guy that can carry a team, we won't need the best roster.

 

I could be wrong about Tannehill's ceiling and will be more than willing to come back and take my lumps if he continues to get better.

The real question is, does trading EJ for Tannehill increase or decrease our odds for hitting on a guy that can carry a team? Personally, I'd say increase at best (because I think Tannehill has a better shot to be that guy than EJ) and not decrease it at worst (because trading for Tanny doesn't mean we can't draft a guy anyway, and this roster is too talented to get a top 5 pick, Tanny or no).

Edited March 14, 2015 by FireChan

[jr1]

EJ and Kaepernick got worse after they worked out together

[Beerball]

Stopped reading right there. Thank you.

no you dint.

[LB3]

The real question is, does trading EJ for Tannehill increase or decrease our odds for hitting on a guy that can carry a team? Personally, I'd say increase at best (because I think Tannehill has a better shot to be that guy than EJ) and not decrease it at worst (because trading for Tanny doesn't mean we can't draft a guy anyway, and this roster is too talented to get a top 5 pick, Tanny or no).

That is where my hesitation comes from. We could still draft a guy, but I think Tanny is just good enough to make us think he's the guy and that we do not need to go after an upgrade. I feel like we'd spend the next 6-10 years getting close to the mountain top without reaching the summit.

[FireChan]

That is where my hesitation comes from. We could still draft a guy, but I think Tanny is just good enough to make us think he's the guy and that we do not need to go after an upgrade. I feel like we'd spend the next 6-10 years getting close to the mountain top without reaching the summit.

I don't know about you, but I'd take 6-10 years getting close and hoping we get a lucky break and a Lombardi, than a 10 years like we've just had.

 

It is an interesting discussion. Is a team like KC fooling themselves by sticking with a guy like Smith and hoping for a lucky/great year? Or are they theoretically worse off than a team like Buffalo or the Jets who are still actively trying to find a guy?

[Beef Jerky]

Tannehill hasn't shown he can help his team get to the playoffs...

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I think the answer you're looking for is, "no."

 

 

 

Neither? So you would cut both of them?

 

I wouldn't cut either of them, unless there was someone better out there.

 

But, they both appear to have serious flaws.

 

Note how the Dolphins have traded away/cut basically all their receivers. They are going to go with a 2 TE, short passing attack, where Tannehill can fire off his 4-yard crosses. He can't throw deep.

 

In fact, Tannehill has a ypa about the same as Trent Edwards-- Captain Checkdown. That's not a recipe for success in the NFL.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

This is stupid and another sad attempt to put EJ down. Of course at this point, you have to take Tannehll. But here's their first 4 games last year:

 

Tannehll - 93/ 155, 60%, 902 yards, 5.8 ypa, 6 tds, 3 ints, 2 fumbles, 0 rushing tds. W-L: 2-2 http://www.nfl.com/player/ryantannehill/2532956/gamelogs

 

Manuel - 76/131, 58%, 838 yards, 6.4 ypa, 5 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble, 1 rushing td. W-L: 2-2 http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/gamelogs

 

Seems like 2 young qbs who got off to very similar starts. Except our gutless coach benched our guy and the Miami coaches, despite whining by fans and media, stuck with Tannehill. And he improved. Tannehill has Aaron Rodgers' old OC and a guy from Chip Kelly's staff. We had guys who worked with Ryan Nassib in the Big East who turned a 9-7 record into assistant coaches jobs with the Jags.

 

But there is one place EJ is clearly ahead of him. He's one and zero versus him. In fact, the only Bills QB to lose to Tannehill is the veteran upgrade and your hero Kyle Orton.

This. Plus 1000%

 

Both came in as raw project players. Both have had some highs, and some truly low lows. See 3/4 of Tanny's games against us the last two years, and I see a very unpolished QB against a lights out defense. But then, you had him do just enough to win last time.

 

I'm not saying either of them are HOF QB's. But I want to see what EJ can do in Roman's system, which already was built around an athletic QB with accuracy issues but better than average mobility.

 

EDIT: It should also be noted that, at this point, Tannehill has 3 times the number of starts as EJ. It's funny how a raw, unpolished QB gets better the more he plays, isn't it?

Edited March 14, 2015 by Whitewalker Merriman

[LB3]

I don't know about you, but I'd take 6-10 years getting close and hoping we get a lucky break and a Lombardi, than a 10 years like we've just had.

 

It is an interesting discussion. Is a team like KC fooling themselves by sticking with a guy like Smith and hoping for a lucky/great year? Or are they theoretically worse off than a team like Buffalo or the Jets who are still actively trying to find a guy?

I do feel a little crazy saying that 6-10 winning years is not good enough after all the years of losing. The Alex Smith comparison is perfect. You've definitely created a good topic for discussion with this thread, at least for me. Cheers!

[FireChan]

This. Plus 1000%

 

Both came in as raw project players. Both have had some highs, and some truly low lows. See 3/4 of Tanny's games against us the last two years, and I see a very unpolished QB against a lights out defense. But then, you had him do just enough to win last time.

 

I'm not saying either of them are HOF QB's. But I want to see what EJ can do in Roman's system, which already was built around an athletic QB with accuracy issues but better than average mobility.

 

EDIT: It should also be noted that, at this point, Tannehill has 3 times the number of starts as EJ. It's funny how a raw, unpolished QB gets better the more he plays, isn't it?

So, you voted yes?

 

 

 

I wouldn't cut either of them, unless there was someone better out there.

 

But, they both appear to have serious flaws.

 

Note how the Dolphins have traded away/cut basically all their receivers. They are going to go with a 2 TE, short passing attack, where Tannehill can fire off his 4-yard crosses. He can't throw deep.

 

In fact, Tannehill has a ypa about the same as Trent Edwards-- Captain Checkdown. That's not a recipe for success in the NFL.

So, you answered what? I'm lost here.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I do feel a little crazy saying that 6-10 winning years is not good enough after all the years of losing. The Alex Smith comparison is perfect. You've definitely created a good topic for discussion with this thread, at least for me. Cheers!

Wait...you're telling me that a potentially talented QB who has been seen as a bust can become successful with Greg Roman?

 

*mind blown*

[SJDK]

This is stupid and another sad attempt to put EJ down. Of course at this point, you have to take Tannehll. But here's their first 4 games last year:

 

Tannehll - 93/ 155, 60%, 902 yards, 5.8 ypa, 6 tds, 3 ints, 2 fumbles, 0 rushing tds. W-L: 2-2 http://www.nfl.com/player/ryantannehill/2532956/gamelogs

 

Manuel - 76/131, 58%, 838 yards, 6.4 ypa, 5 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble, 1 rushing td. W-L: 2-2 http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/gamelogs

 

Seems like 2 young qbs who got off to very similar starts. Except our gutless coach benched our guy and the Miami coaches, despite whining by fans and media, stuck with Tannehill. And he improved. Tannehill has Aaron Rodgers' old OC and a guy from Chip Kelly's staff. We had guys who worked with Ryan Nassib in the Big East who turned a 9-7 record into assistant coaches jobs with the Jags.

 

But there is one place EJ is clearly ahead of him. He's one and zero versus him. In fact, the only Bills QB to lose to Tannehill is the veteran upgrade and your hero Kyle Orton.

i see your points 😎