BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) This is just such a stupid topic. If you polled Dolphins fans and asked them if they would trade a first round draft pick who didn't even start playing quarterback until his senior year of college (yet was drafted higher than EJ Manuel), has started every single game his first three years while his stats have improved immensely each year to the point that in his third season he threw for 4,000+ yards, 27 TD's and 12 INT's for EJ freaking Manuel, literally zero of them would make this trade. And when I say zero, I mean like not one person in the whole world. This thread has really exposed how jaded and biased some of you can be. It's just a ridiculous thread. Hey pal (remember we're friends now), saying that EJ Manuel was benched in favor of Kyle Orton and you don't see him winning the job vs. Cassel, doesn't make you a troll, it doesn't make you a "hater," nor does it mean you are on your period. Let's just all let things play out and a whole bunch of us are going to be able to say "I told you so" and a whole bunch of us are going to eat crow. In the meantime there is no sense in arguing about it anymore. Let me make this post then I will move on to another thread and then we won't have to banter back and forth. 1) Polls won't do much as you have surely seen. - You end up with comments like He could, but I doubt it. 2) Until you or I have a heart to heart with Doug Marrone. No one will ever know the real reason why. I have made this statement a number of times, and I even had a link to support the point months ago. >>> D Marrone always wanted to let EJ sit on the bench to develop and not start. Last last year (2013) the veterans brought in got hurt and put on IR or were clearly not better than EJ, so EJ played as a rookie in a hurry up offense. This past season, sticking to his plan Marrone to let EJ sit on the bench to develop, he put Kyle in after 4 weeks to where Orton could get up to speed with the offense. enjoy Edited March 19, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
GunnerBill Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 He is a guy that a team can say, "yes this guy is our starting QB, we are comfortable with that." That right there puts him in the top 20 because there aren't more than 20 guys in the whole league that fit that description. I mean he might be right around 20 I suppose. I think there are about 15 guys that I'd be confortable saying is my starter and not looking for an upgrade and then there is everyone else. Tannehill like Smith and Palmer and Dalton are at the upper end of what is left but none of them are guys I'd be tying my franchise to.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Let me make this post then I will move on to another thread and then we won't have to banter back and forth. 1) Polls won't do much as you have surely seen. - You end up with comments like He could, but I doubt it. 2) Until you or I have a heart to heart with Doug Marrone. No one will ever know the real reason why. I have made this statement a number of times, and I even had a link to support the point months ago. >>> D Marrone always wanted to let EJ sit on the bench to develop and not start. Last last year (2013) the veterans brought in got hurt and put on IR or were clearly not better than EJ, so EJ played as a rookie in a hurry up offense. This past season, sticking to his plan Marrone to let EJ sit on the bench to develop, he put Kyle in after 4 weeks to where Orton could get up to speed with the offense. enjoy I disagree with you wholeheartedly. I think the plan last year all along was to have EJ be the guy, as evidenced by going into the offseason with Lewis and Tuel all alone backing him up. Based on the sporadic flashes he showed in his rookie year, I was comfortable with that plan. EJ was Marrone's guy, of course he wanted him to start. But then last offseason, EJ looked like burning dog poo throughout virtually every practice and every preseason game- so much so that Marrone and Whaley got in shouting matches in front of the players and then had to bring in a washed up veteran out of absolute sheer desperation and necessity. And EJ was still the starter. But then after two successful game manager performances and two games in which he looked about as bad as an NFL QB can possibly look, they turned to Orton. Believe me when I tell you, that was not their plan. Their plan was to have EJ be the man, all day long. He will get one more chance this year, although this is the first time the job will not be handed to him. I, for one, would be surprised if he won the job from even the likes of Matt Cassel. That is just my opinion though and I sincerely hope I am wrong. I mean he might be right around 20 I suppose. I think there are about 15 guys that I'd be confortable saying is my starter and not looking for an upgrade and then there is everyone else. Tannehill like Smith and Palmer and Dalton are at the upper end of what is left but none of them are guys I'd be tying my franchise to. Those four guys are four guys you could win a Super Bowl with (Dalton would have to be asked to do a bit less) with a dominant roster around them. That is exactly the level of QB play the Bills need to get this season as they DO have a dominant roster everywhere else. The Cardinals COULD have (no, not would have) won the Super Bowl with Palmer last season had he not gotten hurt. Edited March 19, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 My friend,,,, somehow I knew that would be your reply. Your premise it that EJ was DM's guy and not DW's guy, Here are two important links to read, The first supports the development plan of EJ as THE original plan and the second supports the Lame Duckness of Douggie as well as the continued plan for EJ. Please read this carefully as it bears a lot of weight. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills-benched-kyle-orton-doug-marrone-doug-whaley-092914 they drafted Manuel to develop behind Kevin Kolb, who was acquired that offseason. Kolb, though, was placed on the injured reserve before the regular season ever began after sustaining a concussion. While Manuel was rehabbing a minor knee procedure during the preseason, undrafted rookie Jeff Tuel was penciled in to begin the season under center. Manuel, though, would return in time. In 10 games last year, Manuel showed flashes of brilliance, but was far too inconsistent, throwing 11 touchdowns and turning the ball over 12 times. http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/12/doug_marrone_has_no_plans_to_replace_kyle_orton_with_ej_manuel_regardless_of_bil.html Even as the team stares down the barrel of elimination in the final weeks of the season with Orton struggling, Marrone says the Bills will stick with Orton because he gives the team the best chance to win. Even if the team is eliminated from playoff contention, Marrone says that stance won't change. >> WHY wouldn't he want to change? Did he care if the Bills made the playoffs? Back when Marrone benched Manuel for Orton, he made it clear that he was not looking for agreement from general manager Doug Whaley or the front office on the decision.
FireChan Posted March 19, 2015 Author Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) My friend,,,, somehow I knew that would be your reply. Your premise it that EJ was DM's guy and not DW's guy, Here are two important links to read, The first supports the development plan of EJ as THE original plan and the second supports the Lame Duckness of Douggie as well as the continued plan for EJ. Please read this carefully as it bears a lot of weight. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills-benched-kyle-orton-doug-marrone-doug-whaley-092914 they drafted Manuel to develop behind Kevin Kolb, who was acquired that offseason. Kolb, though, was placed on the injured reserve before the regular season ever began after sustaining a concussion. While Manuel was rehabbing a minor knee procedure during the preseason, undrafted rookie Jeff Tuel was penciled in to begin the season under center. Manuel, though, would return in time. In 10 games last year, Manuel showed flashes of brilliance, but was far too inconsistent, throwing 11 touchdowns and turning the ball over 12 times. http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/12/doug_marrone_has_no_plans_to_replace_kyle_orton_with_ej_manuel_regardless_of_bil.html Even as the team stares down the barrel of elimination in the final weeks of the season with Orton struggling, Marrone says the Bills will stick with Orton because he gives the team the best chance to win. Even if the team is eliminated from playoff contention, Marrone says that stance won't change. >> WHY wouldn't he want to change? Did he care if the Bills made the playoffs? Back when Marrone benched Manuel for Orton, he made it clear that he was not looking for agreement from general manager Doug Whaley or the front office on the decision. Dude. What? So Marrone and Whaley wanted EJ to learn behind a vet. The vet got hurt and EJ played. The second season, Marrone wanted a vet QB, while Whaley was resistant to giving Orton that contract. That's what the argument in TC was about. When EJ started to struggle, and play horrifically, Marrone took him out. He didn't take EJ out because "he didn't care if they made the playoffs," that makes no sense. Edited March 19, 2015 by FireChan
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Your reading comprehension needs work Chan - Please try to follow. Read it slowly if you need to understand it So Marrone and Whaley wanted EJ to learn behind a vet. [which you eluded to yesterday - or did you forget that already?] The vet got hurt and EJ played. this is when you went into the shoutbox and whined like a teenager about my posting this item about Kolb. The second season, Marrone wanted a vet QB, while Whaley was resistant to giving Orton that contract. That's what the argument in TC was about. When EJ started to struggle, and play horrifically, [you assume that DM was NOT giving KO time to learn the system] Marrone took him out. He didn't take EJ KO out because "he didn't care if they made the playoffs," HAVE A NICE EVENING Edited March 19, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
FireChan Posted March 19, 2015 Author Posted March 19, 2015 Your reading comprehension needs work Chan - Please try to follow. Read it slowly if you need to understand it So Marrone and Whaley wanted EJ to learn behind a vet. [which you eluded to yesterday - or did you forget that already?] The vet got hurt and EJ played. The second season, Marrone wanted a vet QB, while Whaley was resistant to giving Orton that contract. That's what the argument in TC was about. When EJ started to struggle, and play horrifically, [you assume that DM was NOT giving KO time to learn the system] Marrone took him out. He didn't take EJ KO out because "he didn't care if they made the playoffs," HAVE A NICE EVENING Marrone said he needed better production from the QB position. Direct quote. That's why he switched.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Marrone said he needed better production from the QB position. Direct quote. That's why he switched. It is at about the 20 second mark and your quote at the 45 second mark: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Doug-Marrone-Announces-QB-Change/c3999d72-d853-4b7e-be8c-20ca767800b6 I didn't hear him say anything about making a change so that they don't make the playoffs .
FireChan Posted March 19, 2015 Author Posted March 19, 2015 It is at about the 20 second mark and your quote at the 45 second mark: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Doug-Marrone-Announces-QB-Change/c3999d72-d853-4b7e-be8c-20ca767800b6 I didn't hear him say anything about making a change so that they don't make the playoffs . I think the argument is that Marrone knew Orton was worse than EJ and carefully planned for EJ to have one of the worst games ever to bench him for an inferior QB and squeak out a playoff less 9-7 season.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I think the argument is that Marrone knew Orton was worse than EJ and carefully planned for EJ to have one of the worst games ever to bench him for an inferior QB and squeak out a playoff less 9-7 season. This is getting ridiculous. I actually agree with Bills fan 4 ever for once in our lives that yes, in a perfect world, Kevin Kolb would have been the QB to start the 2013 season and EJ would have a year to study/develop. HOWEVER, after he was forced into action in 2013 and actually looked decent at times during that season, he was unequivocally, absolutely, 100% viewed as THE GUY going into the 2014 season. There can be no debate about that whatsoever. The fact of the matter is that he was so glaringly and alarmingly ill-prepared last year that they had to go out and sign Orton. And it became very apparent after the San Diego and Houston games that Orton would give them a better chance to win. No one had it in for EJ last season and Marrone, despite him now coaching in Jacksonville (which always get lots of laughs around these parts), absolutely made the right decision switching to Orton when he did. Should he have given Manuel another shot late in the season when it was apparent that Orton sucked too? Probably, yes. Certainly in the New England game. But Marrone was obsessed with finishing with a winning record to buoy his resume. Nothing I have said here should or could possibly be debated. Yet it will be met with some sort of condescending response accusing me of trolling or "hating," I am sure. Edited March 19, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Leroi Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 This is getting ridiculous. I actually agree with Bills fan 4 ever for once in our lives that yes, in a perfect world, Kevin Kolb would have been the QB to start the 2013 season and EJ would have a year to study/develop. HOWEVER, after he was forced into action in 2013 and actually looked decent at times during that season, he was unequivocally, absolutely, 100% viewed as THE GUY going into the 2014 season. There can be no debate about that whatsoever. The fact of the matter is that he was so glaringly and alarmingly ill-prepared last year that they had to go out and sign Orton. And it became very apparent after the San Diego and Houston games that Orton would give them a better chance to win. No one had it in for EJ last season and Marrone, despite him now coaching in Jacksonville (which always get lots of laughs around these parts), absolutely made the right decision switching to Orton when he did. Should he have given Manuel another shot late in the season when it was apparent that Orton sucked too? Probably, yes. Certainly in the New England game. But Marrone was obsessed with finishing with a winning record to buoy his resume. Nothing I have said here should or could possibly be debated. Yet it will be met with some sort of condescending response accusing me of trolling or "hating," I am sure. Nothing?? How about everything. Every sentence above is opinion, an uninformed one at that. Imo
Lurker Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Nothing?? How about everything. Every sentence above is opinion, an uninformed one at that. Imo You continue to lose credibility at an alarming rate... Imo
prissythecat Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Nothing?? How about everything. Every sentence above is opinion, an uninformed one at that. Imo Is there any insight that you can share on the matter? Certainly there has been a lot of wild speculation here on what was going on.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Nothing?? How about everything. Every sentence above is opinion, an uninformed one at that. Imo Tell me one thing that I wrote that you ether disagree with or deem uninformed?
Leroi Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 You continue to lose credibility at an alarming rate... Imo I don't judge quality of poster by creditbility. If I did, you wouldn't even exist. Thanks for sharing though... Imo
metzelaars_lives Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I don't judge quality of poster by creditbility. If I did, you wouldn't even exist. Thanks for sharing though... Imo Who are you? And don't say "your worst nightmare." Edited March 19, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
GunnerBill Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Those four guys are four guys you could win a Super Bowl with (Dalton would have to be asked to do a bit less) with a dominant roster around them. That is exactly the level of QB play the Bills need to get this season as they DO have a dominant roster everywhere else. The Cardinals COULD have (no, not would have) won the Super Bowl with Palmer last season had he not gotten hurt. I am sorry I simply do not agree. None of those guys are ever winning you a Superbowl even with a dominant defense because they are too limited in how they can hurt you it is too easy to contain them and take things away that the best teams in the biggest games will always find a way to get that done. Those 4 by the way are a combined 1-8 career record in the play-offs. They are guys who can get you to the play-offs (and hell after 15 years there is a lot to be said for that) but are not going to win you a Superbowl.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I am sorry I simply do not agree. None of those guys are ever winning you a Superbowl even with a dominant defense because they are too limited in how they can hurt you it is too easy to contain them and take things away that the best teams in the biggest games will always find a way to get that done. Those 4 by the way are a combined 1-8 career record in the play-offs. They are guys who can get you to the play-offs (and hell after 15 years there is a lot to be said for that) but are not going to win you a Superbowl. Hey you could be right. That's fair. I think Bills fans would be doing cartwheels though if they knew they would be getting QB play at the level that Carson Palmer played at last year. And I think with that level of QB play, the Bills are undoubtedly a playoff team right now. And once you get to the playoffs- and especially if you get to host a few games- then who knows? Edited March 19, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Lurker Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I don't judge quality of poster by creditbility. If I did, you wouldn't even exist. Thanks for sharing though... Imo How come all we hear from you is opinion, then? "Every sentence above is opinion, an uninformed one at that." So, please inform us as to why Mez's take was inncorrect. I can find numerous news stories and quotes to back it up, so I'm curious to see what you come up with other than your 'opinion'... LMFAO
GunnerBill Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Hey you could be right. That's fair. I think Bills fans would be doing cartwheels though if they knew they would be getting QB play at the level that Carson Palmer played at last year. And I think with that level of QB play, the Bills are undoubtedly a playoff team right now. And once you get to the playoffs- and especially if you get to host a few games- then who knows? Yea I agree with one of those Quarterbacks we are a play-off team last year. And when I said none of those guys are "ever" winning a Superbowl that is slightly exaggerated. I think there is a small but very small percentage chance.... you would need to get very lucky and it would be a 1 hit wonder.
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