Bills' gamble on Percy Harvin sends contradictory message

[Mickey]

Not to change this into a Chandler thread but Gray and Gragg are probably an upgrade over him. Harvin can score from anywhere as can Watkins and McCoy when was the last time the Bills had 3 skill position players you could say that about. They still have the draft to get another guard and a TE if they don't get Clay or someone else.

I don't know that I would consider either of them an upgrade but at the same time, given the new scheme Rex and Roman are likely to use for this offense, Chandler's skills are not as valuable as they would be in a different scheme and his shortcomings are all the more glaring. He is not a good run blocker and draws way too many holding flags. An offense planning to hand the ball off to Shady McCoy for 2/3's of the game and that has plenty of OL trouble already, just can't afford to have a TE who can't run block without drawing a holding flag.

[billykaykay]

The remaining free agent guards are either great or awful. We can't afford great and why would we sign awful. Get a decent guard in the draft and udfa, cut Urbik and/or Chris Williams, and arrange a killer offer for Clay.

When a team is picking late like us this year, the best player available is usually a guard or center. It seems that we will have available when we draft in the 2nd round, a top 3 guard or center. Kinda fits right in perfectly with what we need. Very simple - just have to pull the trigger.

[Luka]

Let's hope so. It's no secret Sammy was way underutilized in the screen game last season. And I think he may have ran the ball on maybe 3 reverses all year, as Marrone and Hackett are as good of playcallers as Yogi and boo boo. I know Roman likes to do a lot of read option type stuff, but do you know if he likes to run those bubble screens and sweeps? I haven't watch enough 49er football to know. He's a smart guy and good coordinator, so I would think he design plays for these guys.

 

With the 9ers I think it was more a matter of personnel than anything. Watkins and Harvin are far greater with the ball in their hands than anyone on the 9ers.

[Big Turk]

Bottom line is Buffalo is running out of Cap space and we have No #1. Its hard to start a #2 or later draft pick.

Seattle just traded their 1st round pick for the 3rd straight year...won't have a 1st round pick in 3 consecutive drafts...turned out OK for them

[HOUSE]

Seattle just traded their 1st round pick for the 3rd straight year...won't have a 1st round pick in 3 consecutive drafts...turned out OK for them

 

That team is going down fast

[folz]

A few points that came to mind while reading this thread:

 

1. By some people's logic, a bad team could never get better. I mean if you wait to pick up good players (Harvin, McCoy, Mario, etc.) until you are sure

you have a top 10 franchise QB and an All-Pro offensive line, well then how many seasons do you waste before you find that and then how many

seasons get wasted once you do have that and just now start to build around them? Why not build a solid team and win some games, so when you

do find the right QB and final piece to the O-line, you're a contender immediately (see Pittsburgh and Seattle). At least they'll be fun to watch in the meantime.

(Not that I don't think this team can compete as is with the current philosophy.)

 

2.I don't think the Bills would make this move if it meant they couldn't still improve the O-line, as has been their stated goal. They know what their cap is

and what they still need.

 

3. Absolutely a double standard in the media. We saw this with both McCoy and now Harvin. I mean before the trade McCoy was considered one of the top 2 backs in the league.

After we trade for him? All of a sudden he's an old RB with too many carries on the decline. Pats get either of those players and they're both considered all pros and the Pats are geniuses.

 

4. It really bothers me when people (and there are a lot of them here) judge a player on one disappointing play (Chandler's fumble in Atlanta game). How many posters have said he

has stone hands and can't hold on to the ball? In 5 years, he had a total of 4 fumbles. And as for drops, he has caught 67% of the balls thrown his way. For comparison (granted on many

more targets), in the same 5 years, Graham caught 65% of his targets and Gronk caught 56% of his targets. Gresham (who some want) in the same 5 years also has 67% catch rate, but 11

fumbles...so Chandler fumbled once every 46 recs, while Gresham fumbled once every 26 recs. It was time to move on, but Scott was a really solid player for us and a great Bill and I think many

have a very distorted view of him because of one play, one loss that was hard to take.

 

5. It's a one year deal for Harvin...if he's a problem, they can dump him at any time. Plus, although we added Incognito and Harvin, this is a very tight team with a lot of good leadership. And although

it feels like we will be a very different team next year, most of the guys from last year will be back, we basically swapped a few skill players and lost 1 safety (I'm still hoping Spikes will be back).

Speaking of Spikes, wasn't he going to be trouble too? Ergo he also got a one year deal. But, he meshed in perfectly and loved being a Bill. This locker room is too tight to let one or two guys

screw it up. Plus Ritchie and Percy know they have to be on their best behavior.

 

6. Some of these reporters act as if ground and pound means we're not going to throw the ball at all, so why get a WR. Every coach knows that the best offense is a balanced offense. So, even

though the focus will be the run to open the pass, we will still need to pass at least 45% of the time. What we're worried about in the passing game is the accuracy of our QBs in the mid-range

game...say 8 to 15 yard throws. So why not get a bunch of guys (McCoy, Sammy, Percy, Fred, etc.) who can take a 5 yard slant and turn it into a 15 yard play, or take a screen 7 or 8 yards, etc.

Or take it to the house (as these guys are capable of). Why is it so hard to understand that we still have to throw the ball? We just think a short passing, high YAC passing attack will be the best

way to minimize the deficiencies of our current QBs.

 

7. Anyone, fan or media, who doesn't see that the Bills have just made themselves relevant again are not paying close enough attention.

 

Pegulas +

Rex > Marrone

Roman > Hackett

Defense will at least be just as good (meaning top 5)

McCoy > Spiller

Incognito > anyone we had

Harvin > Hogan

Sammy healthy and a year under his belt

Robert going into year 3 (a big year for WRs)

Rookie O-linemen now 2nd year guys with one of the best O-line coaches and a good offensive blocking scheme

Felton blocking

EJ/Cassel/Tyrod > EJ/Orton/Tuel or EJ/Thad/Tuel (at worst you could say its a push, but at least this year's QBs will fight for a first down and not immediately collapse to the turf at the first sign of pressure)

Our Special Teams were #2 last year and we just added Harvin

We could realistically have the best defense and best special teams in the league next year...plus we now have McCoy and Harvin (guys that can take it to the house on offense).

 

We were a 9-7 team last year and just got better in so many areas.

 

Just secure a TE and one or two more O-linemen (it's not too late, with FA still on and the Draft and June 1st cuts still to come) and we are going to be a really tough team to face next year.

 

 

Damn this kool-aid is good...but I don't think it's spiked this year. I guess we'll see come September. Go Bills!

[maddenboy]

Not necessarily. Harvin has a long (and I mean long) history of being a trouble maker.

 

In high school, he was suspended a game as a junior for a post-whistle unsportsmanlike penalty. As a senior, he was suspended the last 2 regular season games of his high school career for shoving a ref and using foul language. A couple months later playing basketball, he started a fight with an opponent that resulted in the game being called and a ban from competing against out-of-district schools. That meant he wasn't allowed to participate in state track events in the spring, too. He had won 5 individual state track titles up until then but he cost himself the opportunity to win an unprecedented 6th title and perhaps even worse, his teammate's an opportunity to win a team state championship.

 

One of his former teachers, now retired, told me he was the most ignorant, arrogant,self-absorbed, and self-entitled students she ever met. In fact, the only time I've heard her cuss was when she called him "just a real ass."

 

That's the kind of kid he was. Extrapolating that to adulthood - and with stories we've already heard about him - Rodak is right. He might not be worth the trouble.

 

Hopefully Rex can keep him in line all season. But the odds appear to be against him.

 

I HATE the Harvin signing. HATE.

 

He is a whiny little bi%#c. And he is a mercenary. He is one of the 3 greediest players in the NFL (Revis, P.Manning). We have guys who can do what he does (Sammy, Goodwin (?)). He is a headache.

 

And you gotta feed him the ball to keep him happy. We shall see.

Edited March 14, 2015 by maddenboy

[maddenboy]

A few points that came to mind while reading this thread:

 

3. Absolutely a double standard in the media. We saw this with both McCoy and now Harvin. I mean before the trade McCoy was considered one of the top 2 backs in the league.

After we trade for him? All of a sudden he's an old RB with too many carries on the decline. Pats get either of those players and they're both considered all pros and the Pats are geniuses.

 

5. It's a one year deal for Harvin...if he's a problem, they can dump him at any time. Plus, although we added Incognito and Harvin, this is a very tight team with a lot of good leadership.

 

 

fully agree with #3.

 

Strongly disagree with the bolded portion of #5. And its a problem. There is veteran leadership on the defensive side. But not on offense.

 

Wood? That's about it. Cassel? hahahaha. I was already worried about who was going to keep Richie in line. And now baby-boy Harvin? ugh.

 

You might say that the side of the ball doesnt matter. But that's only on gameday, imho. During meetings, practice, in the lockerroom, etc., I think guys are influenced by the other guys on their side of the ball. That's why I liked having Orton so much.

[Boatdrinks]

P. Manning is one of " greediest players in NFL." ? Interesting. Took a 4 mil pay cut for next year ( a cut, not a " restructure " a la Brady) and actually told his agent before DEN deal to make sure he isn't paid one penny more than Tom Brady. Doesn't sound like a greedy guy to me. Not sure where that thought is coming from, QB s and top talent is going to get paid. Revis has never been shy about chasing $ from team to team, but Manning?

[Bob Malooga]

Rodak is a hack. I don't think that he understands the salary cap. That is dangerous for someone tasked with communicating it to the general public.

He also doesn't seem to know the difference between the franchise tag and the transition tag...as he keeps saying Clay is on the franchise tag. (Or at least he did until someone embarrassed him.)

 

He's a clown...and apparently there is a change.org petition to have ESPN fire him! LOL.

 

 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Not necessarily. Harvin has a long (and I mean long) history of being a trouble maker.

 

In high school, he was suspended a game as a junior for a post-whistle unsportsmanlike penalty. As a senior, he was suspended the last 2 regular season games of his high school career for shoving a ref and using foul language. A couple months later playing basketball, he started a fight with an opponent that resulted in the game being called and a ban from competing against out-of-district schools. That meant he wasn't allowed to participate in state track events in the spring, too. He had won 5 individual state track titles up until then but he cost himself the opportunity to win an unprecedented 6th title and perhaps even worse, his teammate's an opportunity to win a team state championship.

 

One of his former teachers, now retired, told me he was the most ignorant, arrogant,self-absorbed, and self-entitled students she ever met. In fact, the only time I've heard her cuss was when she called him "just a real ass."

 

That's the kind of kid he was. Extrapolating that to adulthood - and with stories we've already heard about him - Rodak is right. He might not be worth the trouble.

 

Hopefully Rex can keep him in line all season. But the odds appear to be against him.

He and Richie should get along just fine.

[maddenboy]

P. Manning is one of " greediest players in NFL." ? Interesting. Took a 4 mil pay cut for next year ( a cut, not a " restructure " a la Brady) and actually told his agent before DEN deal to make sure he isn't paid one penny more than Tom Brady. Doesn't sound like a greedy guy to me. Not sure where that thought is coming from, QB s and top talent is going to get paid. Revis has never been shy about chasing $ from team to team, but Manning?

 

1) I love P. Manning. I think he is the best QB ever. And I do mean ever.

 

2) P. Manning is greedy. I am basing it on how he jacked the Colts into paying him huge dollars to gamble on his health. I dont begrudge Manning his $$$$$. I slightly begrudge Revis, because, while an excellent player, he just seems to rape teams for $15-20MM per year for one guy - in a league that no longer needs a "shutdown CB" with 4 and 5 WR sets.

 

3) Harvin thinks he is elite. He thinks he commands top $$. He reminds me of Mike Wallace. Dood, how about playing well, for the love of the game. Harvin reminds me of

 

Edited March 14, 2015 by maddenboy

[Uffalo Ills]

It was actually a smart deal because he has no impact on next year's cap #. More room for Dareus.

[Codyny13]

Rodak's a bum. !@#$ing nerd.

[folz]

 

fully agree with #3.

 

Strongly disagree with the bolded portion of #5. And its a problem. There is veteran leadership on the defensive side. But not on offense.

 

Wood? That's about it. Cassel? hahahaha. I was already worried about who was going to keep Richie in line. And now baby-boy Harvin? ugh.

 

You might say that the side of the ball doesnt matter. But that's only on gameday, imho. During meetings, practice, in the lockerroom, etc., I think guys are influenced by the other guys on their side of the ball. That's why I liked having Orton so much.

 

That's (the bolded) a good point. But don't underestimate that Ritchie knows his NFL career depends on not being a problem and if Harvin wants another big pay day, he has to be

on his best behavior too.

 

Of course, you want your offensive and team leader to be the QB (it just seems to be the best scenario on a football team). But I'm ok with Kyle and Freddie being the

team leaders being the longest tenured Bills. Those guys bleed red, white, and blue. And from what I've heard, Cassel is a QB who will get in guys faces and lead well

(if he turns out to be the guy). If not, hopefully he can continue to teach EJ and Tyrod how you need to lead and prepare. He may not be the most skilled QB, but Cassel

learned from Brady, played a season for BB, has over 70 starts in the league. He knows how to be a leader.

 

Wood is also an offensive leader and doesn't put up with crap. Plus he's friends with Ritchie...so I think that will work. Ritchie's problem is not work ethic, so I don't

think he'll be a bad influence on our young O-linemen in the room.

 

RBs room? Freddie, LeSean, Boobie, Felton. No leadership issue there.

 

WRs...i think it's going to be Sammy. Sammy is all business, very mature, and not afraid to speak up. He apparently is a fan of Percy's, so hopefully they build a good relationship.

I think Robert could also be an up and coming leader.

 

If these guys see their potential and start winning...everyone is going to be happy. Plus, everyone likes playing for Rex. I really don't think we have to worry about these guys causing so many

problems that it derails the team in any way.

Edited March 14, 2015 by folz