Justice Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 sure Enough with the sarcasm. You want to talk about trauma? They witnessed all their surrounding neighbors get thrown into chaos? How convenient this guy left out Gaza. While Palestine is currently being wiped off the map, too. They won't even let the Palestinians keep their tiny 22% for themselves. Here's some real trauma: http://www.vocativ.com/world/palestine/gaza-population/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Enough with the sarcasm. You want to talk about trauma? They witnessed all their surrounding neighbors get thrown into chaos? How convenient this guy left out Gaza. While Palestine is currently being wiped off the map, too. They won't even let the Palestinians keep their tiny 22% for themselves. Here's some real trauma: http://www.vocativ.com/world/palestine/gaza-population/ He didn't leave out Gaza. It is impossible to answer this crucial question without examining and understanding the shared traumas that Israelis experienced over the last two decades: In 1993 they opened their ears to peace with PLO leader Yasser Arafat (the Oslo Accords); in 2000 they tried to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (the Camp David peace summit); and in 2005 they withdrew unilaterally from the Gaza Strip (the Disengagement). These efforts did not lead to quiet, calm and security, but to violence, terror and instability. And the article isn't about the plight of Israeli's rather than why they choose to vote for Bibi. They take their security very seriously and rightfully so. If Israel was to disengage from the WB do you think there would be peace? Gaza is a prime example of why there wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) He didn't leave out Gaza. And the article isn't about the plight of Israeli's rather than why they choose to vote for Bibi. They take their security very seriously and rightfully so. If Israel was to disengage from the WB do you think there would be peace? Gaza is a prime example of why there wouldn't. Maybe not right away, but over time yes. I believe a two state solution is the best way to achieve peace. Building new settlements isn't. Stealing water isn't. Shutting down borders isn't. Checkpoints isn't. Withholding funds isn't. Cutting down olive trees isn't. BTW, The best chance of peace was killed with the assignation of Rabin, by the hands of an Israeli, I might add. [edited] My point is Netanyahu's ways got them into a war, anyways. Edited March 22, 2015 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Maybe not right away, but over time yes. I believe a two state solution is the best way to achieve peace. Building new settlements isn't. Stealing water isn't. Shutting down borders isn't. Checkpoints isn't. Withholding funds isn't. Cutting down olive trees isn't. BTW, The best chance of peace was killed with the assignation of Rabin, by the hands of an Israeli, I might add. [edited] My point is Netanyahu's ways got them into a war, anyways. I have said it many times, I'm not a fan of Bibi but Israeli's security worries are valid. Yes they live much better than the average Palestinian, people put their own security in priority ahead of others. That's why they vote for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I have said it many times, I'm not a fan of Bibi but Israeli's security worries are valid. Yes they live much better than the average Palestinian, people put their own security in priority ahead of others. That's why they vote for him. Do you honestly believe Palestine is a real threat to Israel? I mean a real genuine threat? Because I don't think so. Not now, not ever. Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world. They have nukes, too. What would Japan or Germany be like today if no one ever gave them a real chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Do you honestly believe Palestine is a real threat to Israel? I mean a real genuine threat? Because I don't think so. Not now, not ever. Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world. They have nukes, too. What would Japan or Germany be like today if no one ever gave them a real chance? By that logic, al Qaeda was never a genuine threat to the US and should never have been attacked after 9/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 By that logic, al Qaeda was never a genuine threat to the US and should never have been attacked after 9/11. Not the same thing. Not at all. Can't compare the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Do you honestly believe Palestine is a real threat to Israel? I mean a real genuine threat? Because I don't think so. Not now, not ever. Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world. They have nukes, too. What would Japan or Germany be like today if no one ever gave them a real chance? Look how much damage a junior varsity terrorist group can do such as ISIS. Look at how many tunnels they found dug heading into tel aviv this summer. Look how many weapons hamas is able to get their hands on despite being blockaded by both borders originating from iran To answer your question, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Look how much damage a junior varsity terrorist group can do such as ISIS. Look at how many tunnels they found dug heading into tel aviv this summer. Look how many weapons hamas is able to get their hands on despite being blockaded by both borders originating from iran To answer your question, yes. Under current circumstances, yes, you'll have those issues. If Palestine is given their own state that stuff will subside over time. Terrorist groups prey on the desperate and the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Not the same thing. Not at all. Can't compare the two. Why not? Under current circumstances, yes, you'll have those issues. If Palestine is given their own state that stuff will subside over time. Terrorist groups prey on the desperate and the poor. No, it won't. Hamas is not interested in having just part of greater Palestine. They want the Israelis evicted. Nothing changes until Hamas recognizes Israel's right to exist. Until they do, giving the Palestinians their own state just makes things worse, as it gives them a more secure base and the Israelis a better foundation in international law to attack them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Why not? No, it won't. Hamas is not interested in having just part of greater Palestine. They want the Israelis evicted. Nothing changes until Hamas recognizes Israel's right to exist. Until they do, giving the Palestinians their own state just makes things worse, as it gives them a more secure base and the Israelis a better foundation in international law to attack them. I heard the same thing about Arafat too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Under current circumstances, yes, you'll have those issues. If Palestine is given their own state that stuff will subside over time. Terrorist groups prey on the desperate and the poor.Even if this is true (which I dispute, but I'll grant for the purposes of discussion), how does Israel justify the significant interim war violence being commited against it's citizens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Why it's time for Obama to cut off America's subsidies to Israel Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's come-from-behind re-election victory this week, fueled by an overt embrace of apartheid policy and racist fear-mongering about Arab voters, has put the United States in a difficult situation. So long as Netanyahu pretended that he was committed to democratic values and a two-state solution, the Americans could look the other way or blame Palestinian intransigence for a lack of progress. Now that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are winding down, Israel has reclaimed its spot as top recipient of American aid dollars. In the 2015 budget, the Obama administration has requested (and will almost certainly receive) $3.1 billion in aid to Israel, or $378.33 per Israeli citizen. As Matt Yglesias shows, on a per-capita basis, this is six times what Afghanistan gets as the second-largest recipient, and 94 times what Nigeria gets as the fifth-largest. It's a mark of Israel's massive influence in American politics that it keeps getting that money despite the fact that foreign aid is consistently the least popular kind of government spending — and doubly so because Israel is a rich country that plainly needs no aid. If Israel doesn't want to end up as a crumbling pariah police state, like South Africa under John Vorster, then the way forward is clear: negotiate a fair and lasting peace with the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Until that happens, America should treat Israel as it really is, not the ally committed to humane, democratic values that it pretends to be. http://theweek.com/articles/545294/why-time-obama-cut-americas-subsidies-israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Even if this is true (which I dispute, but I'll grant for the purposes of discussion), how does Israel justify the significant interim war violence being commited against it's citizens?I'd tell them we have tried everything else. Now it's time for something new. I would tell them the previous path wasn't working. I'd tell them we can't give in to terrorism. For this to work both sides would have to compromise. Palestinians need to give up the right of return. The Israelis gotta forget about being recognized, because trust me, they're recognized. The Palestinians also need to agree to never have a military or even an airport. The Israelis should have control of the borders too, but without all the restrictions. It's gotta be a true two state solution other than those things I've stated. No more half ass attempts. By the way, I'd say the same thing to the Palestinians when they've been attacked by Israeli terrorists. Some of those settlers are just as bad as Hamas. Edited March 22, 2015 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Do you honestly believe Palestine is a real threat to Israel? I mean a real genuine threat? Because I don't think so. Not now, not ever. Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world. They have nukes, too. What would Japan or Germany be like today if no one ever gave them a real chance? Yes. I'd tell them we have tried everything else. Now it's time for something new. I would tell them the previous path wasn't working. I'd tell them we can't give in to terrorism. For this to work both sides would have to compromise. Palestinians need to give up the right of return. The Israelis gotta forget about being recognized, because trust me, they're recognized. The Palestinians also need to agree to never have a military or even an airport. The Israelis should have control of the borders too, but without all the restrictions. It's gotta be a true two state solution other than those things I've stated. No more half ass attempts. By the way, I'd say the same thing to the Palestinians when they've been attacked by Israeli terrorists. Some of those settlers are just as bad as Hamas. Their last 3 peace efforts haven't worked. After the years and events the Israelis have faced, I doubt they'd do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 McCain Blasts Obama on Israel: ‘Get over Your Temper Tantrum, Mr. President’President Obama “has his priorities so screwed up that it’s unbelievable,” says Senator John McCain (R., Ariz.), referring to the administration’s response to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s reelection victory this week. McCain urged the president to put aside his personal problems with Netanyahu and focus on addressing the larger issues in the Middle East rather than fuel further tension between the longtime ally. “The president should get over it — get over your temper tantrum, Mr. President,” the senator said on State of the Union. “It’s time that we work together with our Israeli friends and try to stem this tide of ISIS and Iranian movement throughout the region which is threatening the very fabric of the region.” “The least of your problems is what Bibi Netanyahu said during a reelection campaign,” McCain continued.Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Obama really hates Netanyahu. Hates him so much he gave him $3B+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Obama really hates Netanyahu. Hates him so much he gave him $3B+ Please. Everyone knows Barry hates Bibi. This is not even open for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Obama really hates Netanyahu. Hates him so much he gave him $3B+ Because it's not like those funds hadn't already been appropriated or anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Obama really hates Netanyahu. Hates him so much he gave him $3B+ Wow, I had no idea Barry had that much money on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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