DC Tom Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 God forbid the US is ever overtaken, but if it were, would you recognize your oppressors right to exist? The key difference being: Jews didn't invade Palestine. There were a great number of Jewish communities there before the partition. And the Palestinians want those destroyed, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The key difference being: Jews didn't invade Palestine. There were a great number of Jewish communities there before the partition. And the Palestinians want those destroyed, too. They took land by force. They still do to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 God forbid the US is ever overtaken, but if it were, would you recognize your oppressors right to exist? They must have been holding back during the "war" then because they only killed 64. False comparison. The Israelis were attacked long before they "overtook," anything. Do we have to do the same old "it was GB's land" song and dance? How many did they intend to kill? Pretty sure the payload in those rockets is able to kill more than that. Would the US have been justified in going after Al-Queda if they had caught and prevented 9/11? Yes, they would have been. Just because the Israelis are adept at protecting themselves doesn't somehow absolve Hamas and Gaza. We've discussed this before, and it's a nuance you fail to accept. It is not a "no harm, no foul" situation. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Then how in the world is Israel's foreign policy conditional on US support? it's not. let them sort it out themselves. it's what i've been saying from the start. we don't need to bwe complicit in their crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) False comparison. The Israelis were attacked long before they "overtook," anything. Do we have to do the same old "it was GB's land" song and dance? How many did they intend to kill? Pretty sure the payload in those rockets is able to kill more than that. Would the US have been justified in going after Al-Queda if they had caught and prevented 9/11? Yes, they would have been. Just because the Israelis are adept at protecting themselves doesn't somehow absolve Hamas and Gaza. We've discussed this before, and it's a nuance you fail to accept. It is not a "no harm, no foul" situation. Period. Yes. That's right. They're the victims. And our response to 9/11 was/is way over the top. The Patriot Act, amongst other things, can attest to that. Our involvement in that whole region made things worse. This government and many of you will never understand the ME. Edited March 23, 2015 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) I think most of us feel that Israel's foreign policy is at least partially justified. That's a separate issue from sending financial aid, but they are usually conflated. I can see the benefits of sending aid to Israel, although I probably wouldn't vote for it myself. If there's any hatred present, it's for plans or ideas not grounded in realism. they're "conflated" because one is a necessary condition for the other That's not what I said. They only have the means to kill a couple thousand Israelis, although that's a rough estimation. What would happen if we reduced our funding to Israel? Give me your predictions. pure conjecture. an "even more aggressive approach" might be counterproductive. there's no doubt they're between a rock and a hard place. it just doesn't seem a good idea to take clear sides in such a lose-lose dispute. i doubt much would change. we supposedly are paying for leverage on the peace process. that's clearly wasted money. perhaps israel would allocate more of their own wealth away from settlements and into their military. Then how in the world is Israel's foreign policy conditional on US support? it's not. let them sort it out themselves. it's what i've been saying from the start. we don't need to bwe complicit in their crimes. I should give you the Mitt treatment right now. Yes. That's right. They're the victims. White flag already? I must say, it's an endearing defense to plug your ears and say "nah-nah-nah." You almost swayed me. Edited March 23, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I should give you the Mitt treatment right now. White flag already? I must say, it's an endearing defense to plug your ears and say "nah-nah-nah." You almost swayed me. Sarcasm was pretty thick. I guess you didn't catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I should give you the Mitt treatment right now. mea culpa. mea maxima culpa. i retract that us support is a necessary condition. let's just say it's a highly desired condition by the israelis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Sarcasm was pretty thick. I guess you didn't catch it. I caught it. Like I said, white flag. Just keep repeating that Israel hasn't been a victim. It might become true eventually. mea culpa. mea maxima culpa. i retract that us support is a necessary condition. let's just say it's a highly desired condition by the israelis I'd definitely agree that they desire US financial support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I caught it. Like I said, white flag. Just keep repeating that Israel hasn't been a victim. It might become true eventually. Take a visit to Israel and then Palestine and then tell me if you stick by that bs. Matter of fact why don't you tell your buddies to lay off the freaking scraps they left the Palestinians. Is that so difficult for them? Do they really need to steal from the 22% of land the Palestinians hold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 They took land by force. They still do to this day. Not the previously existing Jewish communities, they didn't. And those would be the ones that the Arabs tried to take by force during and after the British withdrawal. And when's the last time Israel has taken land by force? I'll give you a hint: 1967. Since then, they've actually given up land (Sinai and Gaza). What you really mean to say is that they take land by settlement to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Take a visit to Israel and then Palestine and then tell me if you stick by that bs. An appeal to emotion. Do you find it strange that you call out many on here for pro-Israel biases, yet never stop to think that, perhaps, you may have a touch of bias due to your heritage? Does bias only affect the people who don't agree with you? And please, let me know where my bs is. Demonstrate it, not with one-line, uninspired sarcasm. I'm eager to hear your version of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Take a visit to Israel and then Palestine and then tell me if you stick by that bs. Matter of fact why don't you tell your buddies to lay off the freaking scraps they left the Palestinians. Is that so difficult for them? Do they really need to steal from the 22% of land the Palestinians hold? 22% of WHAT land? That right there - a statement that the Palestinians only own part of the land - is a tacit admission that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I hear a lot of "recognizing the right to exist" and the Palestinians "wanting to destroy Jewish communities", but in actuality Israel doesn't recognize Palestine's right to exist and they are currently destroying Palestine. I guess "want to" and rhetoric are worse than reality. Not the previously existing Jewish communities, they didn't. And those would be the ones that the Arabs tried to take by force during and after the British withdrawal. And when's the last time Israel has taken land by force? I'll give you a hint: 1967. Since then, they've actually given up land (Sinai and Gaza). What you really mean to say is that they take land by settlement to this day. That's what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) I hear a lot of "recognizing the right to exist" and the Palestinians "wanting to destroy Jewish communities", but in actuality Israel doesn't recognize Palestine's right to exist and they are currently destroying Palestine. I guess "want to" and rhetoric are worse than reality. That's what I meant. The US should side with whoever is losing? Once the Allies drove into Berlin, the US should've dropped out, they weren't recognizing the Germans' right to exist! Edited March 23, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 22% of WHAT land? That right there - a statement that the Palestinians only own part of the land - is a tacit admission that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. No it doesn't. Just stay off the 22%. I didn't say I wanted more. And the only reason I say that is every single settlement comes with a military base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I hear a lot of "recognizing the right to exist" and the Palestinians "wanting to destroy Jewish communities", but in actuality Israel doesn't recognize Palestine's right to exist and they are currently destroying Palestine. I guess "want to" and rhetoric are worse than reality. That must be why they allowed self-rule in Gaza, and withdrew and dismantled all Israeli settlements. No it doesn't. Just stay off the 22%. I didn't say I wanted more. And the only reason I say that is every single settlement comes with a military base. "Stay off" the 22%? But you brought it up. What exactly did you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) That must be why they allowed self-rule in Gaza, and withdrew and dismantled all Israeli settlements. "Stay off" the 22%? But you brought it up. What exactly did you mean? I mean exactly what I said. The West Bank and Gaza make up 22% of Israel. Go live on the other 78%. Dismantle your settlements and army bases and leave us be. Allow us to repair our roads. Allow us to import and export goods. Allow our children the right to grow up without looking at AK-47s and Tanks and allow them to live without hateful and racist remarks. I've been there. I've seen it and heard it all. It's a horrible occupation. Yeah. They left Gaza all right. They just go back every few years and destroy the infrastructure. Edited March 23, 2015 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 So will the latest U.S. aid to Palestine (440 Million) in October go towards building roads, schools and hospitals ? or will the money again be diverted to building tunnels into Israel, from which terrorists can attack ? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) So will the latest U.S. aid to Palestine (440 Million) in October go towards building roads, schools and hospitals ? or will the money again be diverted to building tunnels into Israel, from which terrorists can attack ? . No. That money will go straight to the corrupt government's bank accounts. Edited March 23, 2015 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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