YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2015 Author Posted March 13, 2015 They can trade his rights, we did it with Peerless Price when we Franchise Tagged him way back when to Atlanta..only if he signs it
Chuck Wagon Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 What does this even mean @Ajbisons: @reinagel_daniel #Dolphins are banking on a bidding war for Charles Clay b/c there's more risk for competing teams to lose him in FA market. "We signed Jordan Cameron for cheaper than we think Clay will go, aren't we soo smart?"
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Beerball, Maybe he means that Miami is hoping that Buffalo/Cleveland signs him to an offer sheet, and then Miami could trade him to the other team which will in turn match the offer sheet. Not sure if this is possible, can a player be traded after they sign an offer sheet and the original team is within their 5 day window? I know he is eligible to be traded right now, IE Peerless Price...but not sure on the point after the offer sheet is signed. I don't think a transitional player can be traded. It would sort of make the whole process pointless if that could happen.
RichVP Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) What does this even mean @Ajbisons: @reinagel_daniel #Dolphins are banking on a bidding war for Charles Clay b/c there's more risk for competing teams to lose him in FA market. I think he means if they take the Browns tight end, after they were reserved at losing Clay, that they will then be forced to heavily pursue Clay more so than they have. Make a stronger push. Forcing more of a bidding war between the Bills and Browns. The competing teams. In turn hurting the Bills. Edited March 13, 2015 by RichVP
richNjoisy Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Until there's a press conference , I think something will stop it up. Miami hasn't given up their rights and never underestimate the Browns ability to do something dumb. define "dumb" At this point, the dumb one appears to be Clay if he really hasn't signed his transition tag document guaranteeing him $7 million per year for one year. Until he does, he is in limbo - Miami , I believe, still owns his rights having transitioned-tagged him. Not signing is mostly just a player in "complaint mode" where he does not want to agree to play for a one year deal. He can still sign the document and seek out a deal deal with...say...Buffalo or Cleveland. Not signing means he can be released with no guarantee. Now that the Fish have signed Cameron, I would run not walk to the document and sign it if I were Clay. What dumb thing can Cleveland do? They are free at any time to contact Clay and negotiate any deal they like. It is up to Clay as to whether or not to sign it.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) define "dumb" At this point, the dumb one appears to be Clay if he really hasn't signed his transition tag document guaranteeing him $7 million per year for one year. Until he does, he is in limbo - Miami , I believe, still owns his rights having transitioned-tagged him. Not signing is mostly just a player in "complaint mode" where he does not want to agree to play for a one year deal. He can still sign the document and seek out a deal deal with...say...Buffalo or Cleveland. Not signing means he can be released with no guarantee. Now that the Fish have signed Cameron, I would run not walk to the document and sign it if I were Clay. What dumb thing can Cleveland do? They are free at any time to contact Clay and negotiate any deal they like. It is up to Clay as to whether or not to sign it. You realize if he signs it he is agreeing to play for 1 year and $7M in Miami right? There are more lucrative offers out there. Edited March 13, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
stevewin Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) The reason that the Dolphins haven't rescinded the tag is because they want the Bills to be scared that they may match. The Dolphins are banking on the Bills structuring a deal in a manner that the Dolphins won't match. This structure isn't the most cap friendly way for the Bills to put a deal together. Miami is trying to prevent the Bills from having the flexibility to make other moves that they may want to make (ie Harvin). Right - the whole point is likely to make the Bills create an offer with more cap hit this year so that it would be painful for Miami to match (but also painful for the Bills). The other thing people aren't talking about much is the Bills have a Mario restructure "in their back pocket" to create cap relief. I guess they wouldn't actually execute on that until they know exactly how much they want to free up this year (vs. just doing something proactively and having the flexibility to know extra money is already there)? Edited March 13, 2015 by stevewin
K D Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Where has it been reported, implied, or even hinted that Clay "decided he wanted to stay in Miami?" Online chatter that he left here without even talking contract, Whaley was upset about it, went home to sign with the Fins. Reported lots of places that Dolphins and Clay working on long term contract. Then they saw how much he wanted long term vs how much they could get Jordan Cameron for and signed him instead. Contract talks with Clay stopped and Dolphins saying they are keeping the tran tag on him.
richNjoisy Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 You realize if he signs it he is agreeing to play for 1 year and $7M in Miami right? There are more lucrative offers out there. Hmmmmm, Maybe I am wrong but I thought even Franchise tagged players can still seek out a new deal with another team? Even if they sign the tag deal with their team? I need to look this up more so I admit there may be this one piece I am missing. If true, a player CAN simply be released with no guarantee if they do not sign their tag contract but if they sign they can no longer seek out a new deal elsewhere.
nucci Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 define "dumb" At this point, the dumb one appears to be Clay if he really hasn't signed his transition tag document guaranteeing him $7 million per year for one year. Until he does, he is in limbo - Miami , I believe, still owns his rights having transitioned-tagged him. Not signing is mostly just a player in "complaint mode" where he does not want to agree to play for a one year deal. He can still sign the document and seek out a deal deal with...say...Buffalo or Cleveland. Not signing means he can be released with no guarantee. Now that the Fish have signed Cameron, I would run not walk to the document and sign it if I were Clay. What dumb thing can Cleveland do? They are free at any time to contact Clay and negotiate any deal they like. It is up to Clay as to whether or not to sign it. No he can't...once he signs the transition tag he is a dolphin and no longer a free agent...now the dolphins can trade him but he can't seek out better deals if he signs the tag deal. Hmmmmm, Maybe I am wrong but I thought even Franchise tagged players can still seek out a new deal with another team? Even if they sign the tag deal with their team? I need to look this up more so I admit there may be this one piece I am missing. If true, a player CAN simply be released with no guarantee if they do not sign their tag contract but if they sign they can no longer seek out a new deal elsewhere. Correct
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Hmmmmm, Maybe I am wrong but I thought even Franchise tagged players can still seek out a new deal with another team? Even if they sign the tag deal with their team? I need to look this up more so I admit there may be this one piece I am missing. If true, a player CAN simply be released with no guarantee if they do not sign their tag contract but if they sign they can no longer seek out a new deal elsewhere. There are two types of Franchise Tags, Exclusive and Non-exclusive. Exclusive means the player cant talk to anyone and is either playing for you or sitting out. Non-exclusive means they can seek other deals, if that other team is willing to give you 2 1st round picks for him, and you agree to let them go. Then, you have the transition tag, which is a 3rd type of tag, and just gives you the right of first refusal on offers.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Hmmmmm, Maybe I am wrong but I thought even Franchise tagged players can still seek out a new deal with another team? Even if they sign the tag deal with their team? I need to look this up more so I admit there may be this one piece I am missing. If true, a player CAN simply be released with no guarantee if they do not sign their tag contract but if they sign they can no longer seek out a new deal elsewhere. A franchise tagged player can be signed elsewhere BEFORE signing the tag in exchange for 2 1st round picks. A transition tag just gives the team the right to match any offer sheet with no compensation if they don't match. Once the player signs the tag they are agreeing to play for that. They can still negotiate a long term deal with that team until the summer if they elect to not sign the tag (you see it a lot with franchised players). Edited March 13, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
rsxfirefighter Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Hmmmmm, Maybe I am wrong but I thought even Franchise tagged players can still seek out a new deal with another team? Even if they sign the tag deal with their team? I need to look this up more so I admit there may be this one piece I am missing. If true, a player CAN simply be released with no guarantee if they do not sign their tag contract but if they sign they can no longer seek out a new deal elsewhere. What usually happens is that the team verbally agree on a multi-year framework. Player signs the tender, and then in a month or two agree to the new multiyear contract. By doing this, it frees up the Transition Tag to be used by the team the next year. If they match a multiyear deal or agree to a multiyear deal while player is tagged, then they lose that tag for the remainder of the contract.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 A NON-EXCLUSIVE franchise tagged player can be signed elsewhere BEFORE signing the tag in exchange for 2 1st round picks. A transition tag just gives the team the right to match any offer sheet with no compensation if they don't match. Once the player signs the tag they are agreeing to play for that. They can still negotiate a long term deal with that team until the summer if they elect to not sign the tag (you see it a lot with franchised players). Fixed that
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Joe Chenelly @jchenelly 1h1 hour ago #Bills believe they have inside track to sign @C42Clay now, but nothing is a given this yr. New offer ready to be presented to #Clay. Apparently the offer is ready...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Fixed that You and your attention to detail. It's no wonder you became a doctor .
Dorkington Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Joe Chenelly @jchenelly 1h1 hour ago #Bills believe they have inside track to sign @C42Clay now, but nothing is a given this yr. New offer ready to be presented to #Clay. Apparently the offer is ready... The offer has been ready for years now it seems!
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 You and your attention to detail. It's no wonder you became a doctor . I just learned about all these different tags last week, so Im trying to use my knew-found knowledge to look smart! If I cant cash in my time investment for sweet internet points, then whats the point?!
BarleyNY Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I don't think a transitional player can be traded. It would sort of make the whole process pointless if that could happen.You are correct. Clay has not signed his tender contract with the Dolphins so he's not under contract. A team can't trade a player it doesn't have under contract. Hypothetically a deal could be worked out between the player and the two teams where the team holding the tender signs the player and then trades him, but that is frowned upon by the league. It could still happen though. It doesn't make any sense in this case since there is no compensation for signing Clay and Miami already signed Jordan Cameron.
richNjoisy Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 O.K. So, by not signing the Miami contract, Clay retains the right to negotiate but risks being released, right? Since he wants to stay in Miami (so he says) and Miami has now signed Cameron, has his likelihood of making $7 million + for more than one year with Miami gone to basically zero? This year's TE cap for Miami is now shrunk to way less than $7 million and the Suh contract for 2016 is crazy high. Isn's Clay crazy himself if he does not run to Buffalo or Cleveland and sign a contract ASAP? What am I missing? I see how a delay helps Miami but how does it help Clay?
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