Uffalo Ills Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Our fallback plan could definitely be Jordan Cameron. He's my first choice anyway.
Estro Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Dolphins really want to retain Clay can't they agree to match the Bills contract no matter what the structure.....and then immediately restructure high base salaries into bonuses and amortize those bonuses over the life of the deal to soften that cap hits in the early years. Or are the Dolphins not allowed to restructure the deal immediately after matching the Bills offer? I'm not sure what the rules are with that.
LedyardCTbillsfan Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Our fallback plan could definitely be Jordan Cameron. He's my first choice anyway. I think he is too, we can get him for cheaper than Clay more than likely IMO
BrooklynBills Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Dolphins really want to retain Clay can't they agree to match the Bills contract no matter what the structure.....and then immediately restructure high base salaries into bonuses and amortize those bonuses over the life of the deal to soften that cap hits in the early years. Or are the Dolphins not allowed to restructure the deal immediately after matching the Bills offer? I'm not sure what the rules are with that. They can't alter the contract til next year.
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Dolphins really want to retain Clay can't they agree to match the Bills contract no matter what the structure.....and then immediately restructure high base salaries into bonuses and amortize those bonuses over the life of the deal to soften that cap hits in the early years. Or are the Dolphins not allowed to restructure the deal immediately after matching the Bills offer? I'm not sure what the rules are with that. Can't restructure a deal signed the same year
d_wag Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Year two will likely be mostly guaranteed no matter what. IF he HATES Miami we have some more tricks available but if he just wants to take care of himself your theory makes little sense honestly just from a nuts and bolts perspective If it's guaranteed all the more reason he'd take the money AND free agency! Why do you think Wallace is giving them a hard time? Cause he has the leverage and wants free agency. Phins want him to trade salary for bonus so they can defer the dead cap of cutting him to the future. You are being naive assuming every player will accept a straight restructure. They know it just makes the problem bigger the following year. If clay ends up with a big 2nd year cap number via a buffalo bills offer it matters to the phins cause there is no certainty he would restructure - you can't discount that.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Can they include a clause that provides that the contract cannot be modified or restructured by either party until after year 2? Then they front load the first two years.
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 If it's guaranteed all the more reason he'd take the money AND free agency! Why do you think Wallace is giving them a hard time? Cause he has the leverage and wants free agency. Phins want him to trade salary for bonus so they can defer the dead cap of cutting him to the future. You are being naive assuming every player will accept a straight restructure. They know it just makes the problem bigger the following year. If clay ends up with a big 2nd year cap number via a buffalo bills offer it matters to the phins cause there is no certainty he would restructure - you can't discount that. What problem does it make bigger the next year? That it's again hard to cut him? I think there are very few players out there actively trying to get cut as often as possible to accumulate signing bonuses. Maybe situationally, but a year into a mega deal? No way. He takes the cash and smiles unless he hates Miami.
Estro Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 They can't alter the contract til next year. Okay thanks for the clarification, that's what I was hoping. So if the Bills really want Clay they need to make his base this year $14M. His contract breakdown would look something like this: 4 years - $28M, $14M guaranteed '15: $14M base salary ($14M cap hit) '16: $1M base salary & $3M roster bonus, amortized over 3 yrs. ($2M cap hit) '17: $5M base salaey ($6M cap hit) '18: $5M base salary ($6M cap hit) With this structure the Dolphins would need to have enough cap space to squeeze Clay in at his full $14M cap hit, plus $5M for their rookie draft pool, plus any emergency funds you keep heading into a season which is usually at least a few $M. Essentially the Dolphins would need to have in excess of $20M in cap space to match a deal like this. It leaves the Bills vulnerable if Clay were to get hurt or retire from football after the '15 season, but that's not very likely. The Bills are being super proactive: cutting Chandler and restructuring Kyle Williams deal, so it's clear that the '15 cap hit on Clay's offer sheet is going to be heavy. If they need extra breathing room they can always convert some of Mario's base salary. The downside to all of these cuts and restructures is obviously the cap hits in the future only get heavier, which eventually becomes a problem down the line. I will add the 1 wildcard no one has discussed, which is Dannell Ellerbe, LB, Dolphins. It's only a matter of time before he is cut and when he is the Phins pick up an additional $5.65M. If they are determined to keep Clay, they could cut Ellerbe and restructure a couple of contracts and make it work. They would be in absolute dire straits in the future if they decided to do this....but it is the Dolphins, and Stephen Ross, so you never know.
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 I hope that this all works out or the money might have been better spent on some offensive linemen that got snagged up already. Although it seems like most of them re-signed with their original teams.
Estro Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Can they include a clause that provides that the contract cannot be modified or restructured by either party until after year 2? Then they front load the first two years. That's a good point I hadn't thought of. It would be a smart tactic if allowed. My guess is that type of language wouldn't be allowed in a contract, but I could be wrong.
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2015 Author Posted March 12, 2015 I hope that this all works out or the money might have been better spent on some offensive linemen that got snagged up already. Although it seems like most of them re-signed with their original teams.it seemed like they are prepared to pay an OL as well. Clay has always been in the plan. As has OL.
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Adam Caplan ✔ @caplannfl #Browns have wanted Clay from day one. Was considered to be their top target for free agency. Transition tag complicated the situation. I guess Clay is not even giving Cleveland an opportunity it sounds like. "GOOD"
Buffwagonscircled Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Our fallback plan could definitely be Jordan Cameron. He's my first choice anyway. Screw Cameron, if this falls through with Clay then go after Vernon Davis
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2015 Author Posted March 12, 2015 Screw Cameron, if this falls through with Clay then go after Vernon DavisWould need to trade for him though (unless cut)
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Okay thanks for the clarification, that's what I was hoping. So if the Bills really want Clay they need to make his base this year $14M. His contract breakdown would look something like this: 4 years - $28M, $14M guaranteed '15: $14M base salary ($14M cap hit) '16: $1M base salary & $3M roster bonus, amortized over 3 yrs. ($2M cap hit) '17: $5M base salaey ($6M cap hit) '18: $5M base salary ($6M cap hit) With this structure the Dolphins would need to have enough cap space to squeeze Clay in at his full $14M cap hit, plus $5M for their rookie draft pool, plus any emergency funds you keep heading into a season which is usually at least a few $M. Essentially the Dolphins would need to have in excess of $20M in cap space to match a deal like this. It leaves the Bills vulnerable if Clay were to get hurt or retire from football after the '15 season, but that's not very likely. The Bills are being super proactive: cutting Chandler and restructuring Kyle Williams deal, so it's clear that the '15 cap hit on Clay's offer sheet is going to be heavy. If they need extra breathing room they can always convert some of Mario's base salary. The downside to all of these cuts and restructures is obviously the cap hits in the future only get heavier, which eventually becomes a problem down the line. I will add the 1 wildcard no one has discussed, which is Dannell Ellerbe, LB, Dolphins. It's only a matter of time before he is cut and when he is the Phins pick up an additional $5.65M. If they are determined to keep Clay, they could cut Ellerbe and restructure a couple of contracts and make it work. They would be in absolute dire straits in the future if they decided to do this....but it is the Dolphins, and Stephen Ross, so you never know. A little pricey up front, up if Roman really, really, REALLY thinks that he is the guy, I would be onboard. Miami may be ducking the cap reaper this year, but oh dear crap is it going to bite them in the ass in '16 and '17, especially if they decide to go all in with a meh QB.
Big Hurt Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Somehow Whaley still seems to be confident that the Dolphins won't match the offer. I wonder what he is offering. Can we offer like a 4 year deals for say 17M. Year 1 = 14M. Year 2 to 4 = 1M each? How much are we supposed to pay a TE?
Estro Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Johm Murphy was saying on his radio show last night that Charles Clay will be paid like a top tight end. When he says things like that I listen......because he's not just saying them out of the blue. I originally thought $7 M per year seemed a bit too rich for Clay but now I'm thinking he might come in around $8M per if Murphy is onto something. Jimmy graham makes $10M per Gronkowski makes $9M per Julius Thomas makes $9.2M per Jason Witten makes $7.4M per Vernon Davis makes $7.35M per Kyle Rudolph makes $7.3M per Antonio Gates makes $7.2M per Jared Cook makes $7M per And many of these contracts were signed 2 years ago when the salary cap was 10-15% lower. So if you tack on 10% to some of those middle contracts listed above your right in the $8M per year range. Edited March 12, 2015 by Estro
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2015 Author Posted March 12, 2015 @PhinManiacs: According to @ArmandoSalguero, it is expected that the Buffalo Bills will offer Charles Clay an official contract today.
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