swede316 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 This is a horrible situation...but it has opened some eyes...especiallly in Europe....Even France is saying it's time to stop Terrorism...too bad it had to take the death of 200 Russian children.
Wacka Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 The best time to stop terrorism should have been after the Israeli athletes were killed in Munich in 1972, but they were jews, so the european governments really didn' care too much. If the retribution would have been swift back then, maybe all this could have been avoided.
swede316 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 No doubt Wacka...We let this wound fester way too long...and the world is now paying the price.
Britbillsfan Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 This is a horrible situation...but it has opened some eyes...especiallly in Europe....Even France is saying it's time to stop Terrorism...too bad it had to take the death of 200 Russian children. 17967[/snapback] Since Europe has, up until 9/11, been at the forefront of terrorist attacks over the 70s, 80s, 90s what the hell do you mean about opening eyes. The French and others have disagreed about Iraq (nothing to do with 9/11 and not a major terrorist sponsor nation generally), but are against terrorism generally. After all there have been extremist Islamist attacks on French soil throughout the 90s, and the French have been very active against the scum for a lot longer than almost anyone else.
Britbillsfan Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 The best time to stop terrorism should have been after the Israeli athletes were killed in Munich in 1972, but they were jews, so the european governments really didn' care too much. If the retribution would have been swift back then, maybe all this could have been avoided. 18059[/snapback] Since the terroristsin Munich and their 'comrades' were sponsored and trained by our old 'friends' in the Soviet Union and their proxies you are suggesting that the west should have gone and invaded those countries? Without the technological edge the US (and to a lesser extent its allies) have today. Well it would have stopped terrorism in its track. Of course no one would be left on the cinder called earth about now, but hey, all the terrorists would be gone.
Mickey Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 These muslim extremist terrorists (Chechnyan's or Palestinians or Taliban or whatever?!?)....are not even fighting for religious causes anymore. They don't want to live in peace. They want to murder anyone that isn't like them. They are just organized murderers. If they killed off all their enemies, they'd probably start killing each other because that's all they know what to do with their lives? Once you start purposely killing innocents, you've destroyed any credibility for your cause. Thats why I'd never support anything about Chechnya or the Palestinians. They're all a bunch of sick F*#ks. It really is sick what they did to those kids today. 17612[/snapback] They want independence and are willing to do anything, anything, to get it. They will kill and kill and kill until they win or are dead.
TPS Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Thanks. I also posted a similar link to an earlier thread. See below. BiB posted this earlier. It is not 100% up to date but provides some info. It is about the conflict overall, not the siege. link BTW, If all these terrorists wanted was a separate government did they think they would get it via this act? Is there any way they could have possibly thought that their goal would be achieved by doing this? If so, why would they not seek to take more in the same or similar fashion? If not, why would they want to capture and kill hundreds of children? People who would do this offer no evidence that they could ever offer anything of value to the human race IMO. They may have had unfair circumstances thrust upon them in their individual lives, they may be angry at things around the world they see as unfair, they may have psychological problems, but they offer nothing but fear, suffering and death to the rest of us. They are too far gone. They must be found and killed. I wish it were not true, but it is. I wish there were another solution, but there is not. At the same time, we must do everything we can to be sure that new generations do not have incentives (or lack of options) to continue this. The Muslim community at large around the world must help in this effort. If they do not, the situation runs the risk of turning far uglier than it is now. 17931[/snapback] Chechnya And I'm not trying to justify or support this, I just disagree with people who are trying to equate this to Al Queda's global Jihad. Would they also consider the IRA's violence in their effort for an independent North Ireland Al Queda related too?
swede316 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 When it is reported that increased activity can be seen around known Al Qaeda camps in Pakistan (near Afghan border), why doesn't someone bomb the living crap out of that area? You have to be sure.....You justy can't drop a MOAB on a village. If you were wrong..that's counter productive to our efforts.
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Thanks. I also posted a similar link to an earlier thread. See below.Chechnya And I'm not trying to justify or support this, I just disagree with people who are trying to equate this to Al Queda's global Jihad. Would they also consider the IRA's violence in their effort for an independent North Ireland Al Queda related too? 18186[/snapback] Russia now believes this was Al Queda supported. These were not freedom fighters. This was another suicide mission, like the simultanious destruction of the two Russian jetliners, this one designed to take out a school full of innocent children. This is pure evil on a scale the IRA couldn't have even imagined.
Thurman's Helmet Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Its simply stunning that no matter how vile the terrorist act, there will ALWAYS be an apologist for these scumbags trying to justify their anger and hatred.
NavyBillsFan Posted September 4, 2004 Author Posted September 4, 2004 Hey guys, we are all bitching about a group of people who just dont care about human life or their own. These people are friggin animals. Their teaching and bible states that all non muslims are evil and against their good will. What religion teaches hate? Christian? You can twist and bend any bible of any religion, but I did read all about the muslim religion, Muhammad (who went on genocide missions with his holy warriors against Christians and Hebrews), and read page for page of their Quran. The Quran is very peacefull but also twisted of sorts. They teach to spread the word of Islam "BY ALL MEANS"... I dont call that a religion, I call that a cult. They call Christians the "Great Satan". Who is right and wrong here? Who knows.... But the killing of the children yesterday and the years of this stevestojan needs to stop and stop now. Every home country these people are from needs to be held responsible for their actions. Saudi, insted of putting Laden in jail, kick him out of the country. Thats right folks.... Kicked him out! He then returned to Afgan. and created "the base" supported by those cave whores the Taliban. We need to start kicking the pants off these people or find another source of power so we can leave them the way we found them, !@#$ing camels and hearding goats! All jokes aside, I hope Russia kicks the living stevestojan out of these people. You can call me a rasist all you want, THE DAY THE CHRISTIAN WORLD RISES UP TIRED OF THIS MURDER YOU CAN BET ILL BE ON THE FRONT LINE FIGHTING FOR CHRIST, MY FREEDOM, MY FAMILY AND THE TRUE WELL BEING OF ALL MANKIND!
chicot Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Its simply stunning that no matter how vile the terrorist act, there will ALWAYS be an apologist for these scumbags trying to justify their anger and hatred. 18330[/snapback] Who the hell is apologising for their actions? Nothing justifies such an atrocity. Attempting to understand the history behind the conflict rather than adopting the terrorists' mindset and advocating a "kill 'em all" solution is not equivalent to "apologising for these scumbags".
Mickey Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Russia now believes this was Al Queda supported. These were not freedom fighters. This was another suicide mission, like the simultanious destruction of the two Russian jetliners, this one designed to take out a school full of innocent children. This is pure evil on a scale the IRA couldn't have even imagined. 18255[/snapback] I think these people are politically and spiritually motivated. Labeling them as evil may satisfy a desire for an explanation that excuses us from further thought but we have no hope of defeating them if we don't figure out what makes them tick. If killing them is the only way to respond, then so be it. We still need to know them and understand them as best we can if we want to be successful in that effort. Besides, what does explaining them away simply as being "evil" get us? It is a meaningless observation.
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 I think these people are politically and spiritually motivated. Labeling them as evil may satisfy a desire for an explanation that excuses us from further thought but we have no hope of defeating them if we don't figure out what makes them tick. If killing them is the only way to respond, then so be it. We still need to know them and understand them as best we can if we want to be successful in that effort. Besides, what does explaining them away simply as being "evil" get us? It is a meaningless observation. 18407[/snapback] And part cultural, as they are trained from an early age that this is acceptable. To understand them is of necessary importantance, especially for Russia. But to dismiss this event as just part of an ongoing rebel cause, doesn't begin to explain a lot of the questions now being raised, such as the foriegn participation and funding of it. And as for the word evil, I believe there is real evil in the world. But that's because I also believe in God. If you don't like that word, let's just call them racists, perhaps a more meaningful term to you. It certainly applys in this situation as much as it does in other cases where it's loosely thrown around. But you can keep you R Word. I'll keep my E word. And I already know what makes them tick. It's their time bombs.
Britbillsfan Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Shamil Basayev, the Chechen leader responsible for this outrage plus the others in the theatre and hospital a while back, was originally a seperatist Chechen with Islamic beliefs. AFTER the Russians killed 11 members of his family (non-combatants, I believe) he effectively became extremely bitter and turned to more radical Islamic ideas and THEN started on this murderous spree of hostage taking. He DEFINITELY now has ties with al-Qaeda but did not do so originally when he started out. Russian actions have helped turned a rebel into a monster. Not that the death of his family alters the fact one iota as to the absolute burn-in-hell evil that this man has instigated, but it MIGHT help some on this board understand what makes the Chechen terrorists (safe to say they should no longer be regarded as seperatist freedom fighters) tick. the Russians have killed somewhere between 10 and 20% of the population of Chechnya in the last decade, so there are bound to be some almighty bitter and twisted people about. It also illustrates what counter productive results a 'bomb-them-all' policy actualy achieves. All in all a fuggin' nightmare.
KOKBILLS Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 This thing just broke My heart... I know we should not be surprised after what this Country has seen 1st hand, but seeing those Kids running out of that School, and hearing the stories of dead and wounded children who were shot in the back while fleeing...Good God, I guess you just have to Pray for those poor Families. My Grandpa on My Dad's side was 100% Russian. He used to speak to me in Russian all the time. I thought he was so cool. I definitely feel a connection to those folks, and again they are in My Prayers... I think a lively debate on the situation over there is always warranted, but when it comes right down to it ,actions such as this do nothing but invite more War. Putin has already said today that Russia has not been tough enough on Terrorism. So it sounds to me like regardless of what has happened in the past, this standoff, and the violence it is bringing, is far from over...
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