Letter to Iran

[Magox]

 

I have no problem with the assumption that they're negotiating in good faith.

 

It's the assumption that Iranian and Western goals are congruent that's the killer. From our perspective, we're negotiating with a rogue state, trying to normalize international relations. But THEIR perspective is of imperial powers dictating to a former colony - analogous to a slave "negotiating" with his owner. It's not so much "not negotiating in good faith" as "not even speaking the same language."

 

This administration is constitutionally incapable of recognizing that difference, let alone admitting it. It simply contradicts their "One Big Happy Family Kum-ba-Yah Group Hug!" principle of international relations.

 

I tend to agree with much of what you are saying, but when you purposely obfuscate and cheat by hiding your true intentions, which is to build a weapon and state that it's for the purpose of energy and medicine, that in my view is also not negotiating in good faith.

 

Having said that, this deal is so bad that it essentially gives Iran the green light to go ahead and follow through with their intentions within 15 years.

[Doc]

I don't believe Iran is negotiating in good faith OR that their goals are congruent with that of the West.

[DC Tom]

Having said that, this deal is so bad that it essentially gives Iran the green light to go ahead and follow through with their intentions within 15 years.

 

I'm withholding judgement on the deal until I see the actual deal.

 

Not that I have any faith in it - my judgement on the administration is that they're more interested in bragging about a deal than they are negotiating one. But that's my judgement of the administration, not the deal.

[Magox]

 

I'm withholding judgement on the deal until I see the actual deal.

 

Not that I have any faith in it - my judgement on the administration is that they're more interested in bragging about a deal than they are negotiating one. But that's my judgement of the administration, not the deal.

 

Sounds reasonable. However, knowing that they haven't even agreed to anything yet, and that we have already stated our "fact sheet" which is essentially our starting position of negotiations, and we now know that they are already beginning to balk at our demands, even if you take the "fact sheet" as the end product, which is the very best that they could hope for, which there is no chance in hell that the Iranians will accept, it's still a ****ty position because it allows them to have full capacity to build the necessary components to have a weapon within 15 years.

[B-Man]

Iran Supreme Ayatollah: White House lying about nuke deal

 

Within hours of the White House celebrating a supposed Iran nuclear framework “deal,” it became apparent that the various sides — the U.S., the Iranians and the Europeans — had very different understandings of the deal.

 

Those competing narratives now have moved to the stage of open declarations by senior Iranian officials that the White House is lying and that key elements in a White House Fact Sheet never were agreed upon and are unacceptable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TO BE FAIR, SO DID IRAN:..................................... Scott Walker bests Obama on Iran.

 

 

 

.

[IDBillzFan]

It simply contradicts their "One Big Happy Family Kum-ba-Yah Group Hug!" principle of international relations.

That's why I kept calling it the Sally Fields Foreign Policy Plan. Barry keeps thinking honey will get the bees, and he'll be able to stand in front of the world and say "You like us! You really like us!"

 

Frankly, it reminds me more of scenes from "Mars Attacks!", with Barry releasing the pomp and circumstance to the world right before the Martians blow up Congress while the head of Joe Biden professes its love to the head of Nancy Pelosi sewn onto the body of a chihuahua.

Edited April 9, 2015 by LABillzFan

[Keukasmallies]

Iran Supreme Ayatollah: White House lying about nuke deal

 

Within hours of the White House celebrating a supposed Iran nuclear framework “deal,” it became apparent that the various sides — the U.S., the Iranians and the Europeans — had very different understandings of the deal.

 

Those competing narratives now have moved to the stage of open declarations by senior Iranian officials that the White House is lying and that key elements in a White House Fact Sheet never were agreed upon and are unacceptable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TO BE FAIR, SO DID IRAN:..................................... Scott Walker bests Obama on Iran.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's what happens when POTUS sprinkles his fairy dust on issues over which he has no understanding. What's it been a week since he pimped the deal from the roof tops; now the sides are in disarray.

 

Note to POTUS: You can't win a pi$$ing contest with a skunk!

[meazza]

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-helping-Hamas-Hezbollah-build-fleet-of-suicide-drones-396673

 

 

Iran is building an explosive fleet of so-called “suicide kamikaze drones” while also providing know-how on assembling these new weapons to its terrorist allies Hamas and Hezbollah, according to a new report commissioned by the US Army.

The report, which was cited by the American daily newspaper The Washington Times and published by the Army's Foreign Military Studies Office at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, states that “no aspect of Iran’s overt military program has seen as much development over the past decade as Iranian unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).”

 

Lovely.

[DC Tom]

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-helping-Hamas-Hezbollah-build-fleet-of-suicide-drones-396673

 

 

Lovely.

 

Of course, "explosive suicide kamikaze drones" sounds a lot more scary than what they were called 15 years ago: cruise missiles.

[Juror#8]

Letter to Iran:

 

"Just be glad Reagan's gone. Cause you'd be shakin in your boots if he werent. His Inaugural speech scared Iran so much that they let those hostages go. Don't make us break out the heavy duty smelling salts cause you'll be sorry."

 

Signed,

 

Delusional

[3rdnlng]

Letter to Iran:

 

"Just be glad Reagan's gone. Cause you'd be shakin in your boots if he werent. His Inaugural speech scared Iran so much that they let those hostages go. Don't make us break out the heavy duty smelling salts cause you'll be sorry."

 

Signed,

 

Delusional

Welcome back, Mr. Nuance. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Refute that if you can.

[Juror#8]

Welcome back, Mr. Nuance. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Refute that if you can.

I think that any historian will tell you that Reagan's speech and some underlying "fear of Reagan's retribution" had nothing to do with those hostages being freed. The mechanics around that were in the works for months and under Carter.

 

With that said, notice that I didn't say that Carter wasn't an idiot, because he was. The mission to extract the hostages was ill planned and coordinated. It was a good idea, but just poorly conceived.

 

That falls under the category of "if it would have been successful, Carter would have been awesome; because it failed he is a blundering idiot." Incidentally, that rationale is the same reason that Obama deserves credit for the bin Laden raid. Because if it would have failed he would have been mercilessly pilloried (by you and most here at PPP) so give him credit because things went well. Otherwise you're moving the goalpost and articulating a game that you'll never allow him to win.

 

So back to my point, Reagan, though an idiot himself, was just less of an idiot than Carter. He was still intelletually numb, and dim-witted.

 

In fact, in my opinion, there were only a handful of presidents that weren't ridiculously unprepared or ineffective in the last 100 years:

 

FDR

Teddy Roosevelt

Bill Clinton

Richard Nixon

JFK

George HW Bush

Eisenhower

 

****, I'd give a Nixon/Clinton, Clinton/Nixon ticket a lifetime appointment if it were possible (Watergate/Lewinsky scandal notwithstanding). To me that scandal bs just demonstrates passion, hustle and virility. I'll take that any day over unbridled incompetence and fundamental inability to lead, message, and coalesce - which have been the hallmarks of the W and Barry administrations, respectively.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Juror#8

[FireChan]

I think that any historian will tell you that Reagan's speech and some underlying "fear of Reagan's retribution" had nothing to do with those hostages being freed. The mechanics around that were in the works for months and under Carter.

 

With that said, notice that I didn't say that Carter wasn't an idiot, because he was. The mission to extract the hostages was ill planned and coordinated. It was a good idea, but just poorly conceived.

 

That falls under the category of "if it would have been successful, Carter would have been awesome; because it failed he is a blundering idiot." Incidentally, that rationale is the same reason that Obama deserves credit for the bin Laden raid. Because if it would have failed he would have been mercilessly pilloried (by you and most here at PPP) so give him credit because things went well. Otherwise you're moving the goalpost and articulating a game that you'll never allow him to win.

 

So back to my point, Reagan, though an idiot himself, was just less of an idiot than Carter. He was still intelletually numb, and dim-witted.

 

In fact, in my opinion, there were only a handful of presidents that weren't ridiculously unprepared or ineffective in the last 100 years:

 

FDR

Teddy Roosevelt

Bill Clinton

Richard Nixon

JFK

George HW Bush

Eisenhower

 

****, I'd give a Nixon/Clinton, Clinton/Nixon ticket a lifetime appointment if it were possible (Watergate/Lewinsky scandal notwithstanding). To me that scandal bs just demonstrates passion, hustle and virility. I'll take that any day over unbridled incompetence and fundamental inability to lead, message, and coalesce - which have been the hallmarks of the W and Barry administrations, respectively.

Why JFK?

[DC Tom]

I think that any historian will tell you that Reagan's speech and some underlying "fear of Reagan's retribution" had nothing to do with those hostages being freed. The mechanics around that were in the works for months and under Carter.

 

With that said, notice that I didn't say that Carter wasn't an idiot, because he was. The mission to extract the hostages was ill planned and coordinated. It was a good idea, but just poorly conceived.

 

 

The flip-side to that is that the hostages were released after Reagan took the oath of office. I do think it had to do with Reagan taking office - not fear of Reagan, as much as a final "!@#$ you" to Carter for not turning over the Shah.

 

And Carter didn't plan the rescue mission. The most disjointed "joint" mission in history. So bad, the Pentagon had to beat up Grenada to make themselves feel better.

 

Carter's presidency was living proof that intelligence is overrated.

[3rdnlng]

I think that any historian will tell you that Reagan's speech and some underlying "fear of Reagan's retribution" had nothing to do with those hostages being freed. The mechanics around that were in the works for months and under Carter.

 

With that said, notice that I didn't say that Carter wasn't an idiot, because he was. The mission to extract the hostages was ill planned and coordinated. It was a good idea, but just poorly conceived.

 

That falls under the category of "if it would have been successful, Carter would have been awesome; because it failed he is a blundering idiot." Incidentally, that rationale is the same reason that Obama deserves credit for the bin Laden raid. Because if it would have failed he would have been mercilessly pilloried (by you and most here at PPP) so give him credit because things went well. Otherwise you're moving the goalpost and articulating a game that you'll never allow him to win.

 

So back to my point, Reagan, though an idiot himself, was just less of an idiot than Carter. He was still intelletually numb, and dim-witted.

 

In fact, in my opinion, there were only a handful of presidents that weren't ridiculously unprepared or ineffective in the last 100 years:

 

FDR

Teddy Roosevelt

Bill Clinton

Richard Nixon

JFK

George HW Bush

Eisenhower

 

****, I'd give a Nixon/Clinton, Clinton/Nixon ticket a lifetime appointment if it were possible (Watergate/Lewinsky scandal notwithstanding). To me that scandal bs just demonstrates passion, hustle and virility. I'll take that any day over unbridled incompetence and fundamental inability to lead, message, and coalesce - which have been the hallmarks of the W and Barry administrations, respectively.

Ah, putting words in my mouth and then accusing me of being dishonest because of those words. You're back!!!! Then you went on to call Reagan intellectually numb and dim-witted without one iota of explanation. Now you are really back.

 

Truth be told, Reagan was a true leader who led this country out of the malaise that Carter fostered. Reagan's ideology and character ended the Cold War (sooner than it would have) brought this country back on its economic feet and made us feel good about ourselves again.

 

Wow. If that "scandal bs" just demonstrates passion, hustle and virility then you might want to reconsider your dislike of Obama. Under that criteria, he must be an absolute stud.

[B-Man]

THE POOR DEARS: House Democrats Forced to Choose Sides in Iran Debate.

 

 

.

[B-Man]

Angry President Obama says partisan criticism of Iran negotiations has ‘crossed all boundaries,’ ‘needs to stop'

It was just yesterday that White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest short-circuited quite a few minds by tweeting that Sen. John McCain was being “naïve and reckless” for believing every word of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei’s political speech.

 

In a press conference held at the conclusion of the Summit of the Americas in Panama City, Panama, on Saturday, President Obama expressed his anger and frustration with those “trying to short-circuit the actual negotiations,” insisting that “it needs to stop” and pointing the finger squarely at the GOP.

 

He needs to stop lying : "It's a problem, it needs to stop," Obama says of McCain believing Khamenei over Kerry/admin

 

http://twitchy.com/2015/04/11/angry-president-obama-says-partisan-criticism-of-iran-negotiations-has-crossed-all-boundaries-needs-to-stop/

 

Second term Obama is more political and thin-skinned than first term Obama.

 

President Obama doesn't get that the Iranians called him and John Kerry a liar.

 

 

 

John McCain ✔ @SenJohnMcCain Follow

So Pres Obama goes to #Panama, meets with Castro and attacks me - I'm sure Raúl is pleased

8:33 PM - 11 Apr 2015

 

 

[truth on hold]

Angry President Obama says partisan criticism of Iran negotiations has crossed all boundaries, needs to stop'

It was just yesterday that White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest short-circuited quite a few minds by tweeting that Sen. John McCain was being naïve and reckless for believing every word of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameneis political speech.

 

In a press conference held at the conclusion of the Summit of the Americas in Panama City, Panama, on Saturday, President Obama expressed his anger and frustration with those trying to short-circuit the actual negotiations, insisting that it needs to stop and pointing the finger squarely at the GOP.

 

He needs to stop lying : "It's a problem, it needs to stop," Obama says of McCain believing Khamenei over Kerry/admin

 

http://twitchy.com/2015/04/11/angry-president-obama-says-partisan-criticism-of-iran-negotiations-has-crossed-all-boundaries-needs-to-stop/

 

Second term Obama is more political and thin-skinned than first term Obama.

 

President Obama doesn't get that the Iranians called him and John Kerry a liar.

 

 

 

Better than the circles he travels in

 

Senator John McCain, Foreign Relations Adviser to Al Qaeda Death Squads in Syria

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/senator-john-mccain-foreign-relations-adviser-to-al-qaeda-death-squads-in-syria/5348383

 

[3rdnlng]

Better than the circles he travels in

 

Senator John McCain, Foreign Relations Adviser to Al Qaeda Death Squads in Syria

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/senator-john-mccain-foreign-relations-adviser-to-al-qaeda-death-squads-in-syria/5348383

 

Why don't you just change your screen name to "Crusader" to more aptly describe yourself? It gets old.

[4merper4mer]

Why don't you just change your screen name to "Crusader" to more aptly describe yourself? It gets old.

 

Joe the Sandusky Proponent isn't accurate enough?