Potential Upside of OBD Strategy For Success

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

No, there is no upside, ever. To anything. To believe otherwise is to be an unreflective Kool-Aid drinker.

 

That's the answer you were looking for, right, Stopthepain?

 

[mjt328]

By far, the best way to construct a winning franchise is to build around a Top 10 quarterback.

There is absolutely no doubt.

 

Unfortunately... When you look at things realistically - that just isn't going to happen any time soon for the Bills.

Good QBs don't hit free agency. They aren't available for trade. You generally need a Top 3 pick to get a top prospect.

 

 

So what is the next best option?

Build the best defense in the NFL, then support it with a great running game, strong O-Line and smart game-managing QB.

It's definitely not the most common way to win a Super Bowl. But it has happened a few times, most recently with the Seattle Seahawks.

[birdog1960]

"Almost elite" is a hell of a lot better than anything on this roster at the moment, nor do we have anything close to a QB with Russell's dynamic playmaking and running ability!

 

It is absurd to suggest that the 2015 Bills are analogous to the Seattle Seahawks of the last 2 years in terms of team makeup, which was your primary point.

Kaepernick. Not elite, no. But a hell of a lot better than anything that is going to play on this team this year at the QB position.

 

The discussion is your prediction for the ultimate upside of this approach to NFL football in 2015.

THIS.

Right. You have stated the plan, just like I did.

That isn't the topic of discussion. The topic is how far is that going to take us, or how far can it take any NFL team in the year 2015.

 

It's not enough. Is it "the best we can do at the moment?"

 

Maybe.

So keep expectations low, hope for the best...and enjoy that we aren't comatose as a franchise anymore.

 

This is probably about right. I wish we had 1 more piece to the puzzle though. Something to kick it up a notch.

 

I.E., more QB than we are probably going to have.

rome wasn't built in a day. at least nero is no longer emperor and there is hope for the building to be completed in the forseeable future.

Edited March 9, 2015 by birdog1960

[BuckeyeBill]

An elite defense will always give you a chance to win, no matter who you are playing against. Best case scenario is for E.J. to turn it on and become Russell Wilson himself. Then, look out boys...

[ricojes]

Right. You have stated the plan, just like I did.

That isn't the topic of discussion. The topic is how far is that going to take us, or how far can it take any NFL team in the year 2015.

 

 

ok, kind of lame, i think that's been discussed the past several years. The phrase "manage the game" has been used year after year because of the lack of a quality QB... But I'll play along and say playoffs this season. A couple bad plays and they still almost made it with a backup last year. Once you're in, anything can happen. But it's one step at a time, playoffs being the first.

[Fadingpain]

No, there is no upside, ever. To anything. To believe otherwise is to be an unreflective Kool-Aid drinker.

 

That's the answer you were looking for, right, Stopthepain?

 

Woah! Who pissed in your coffee today?

 

That wasn't the answer I was looking for, but whatever.

 

I'm curious what people think in terms of this strategy and how far it can go.

 

I do realize that a lot of people here exist to shout out "rah rah rah" and indeed are unreflective kool aid drinkers.

Maybe you're one of them. Who knows.

ok, kind of lame, i think that's been discussed the past several years. The phrase "manage the game" has been used year after year because of the lack of a quality QB... But I'll play along and say playoffs this season. A couple bad plays and they still almost made it with a backup last year. Once you're in, anything can happen. But it's one step at a time, playoffs being the first.

This is a fair approach.

rome wasn't built in a day. at least nero is no longer emporer and there is hope for the building to be completed in the forseeable future.

This is short and to the point. Don't disagree with any of it.

[Uffalo Ills]

Let me put it this way. If Tim Tebow led Denver could beat the Pittsburgh Stealers in a playoff game, I think that anyone who doesn't believe EJ could lead The Bills to a Playoff victory has mush for brains.

I hear Tebow is available...

Edited March 9, 2015 by Uffalo Ills

[The Big Cat]

"Almost elite" is a hell of a lot better than anything on this roster at the moment, nor do we have anything close to a QB with Russell's dynamic playmaking and running ability!

 

It is absurd to suggest that the 2015 Bills are analogous to the Seattle Seahawks of the last 2 years in terms of team makeup, which was your primary point.

Kaepernick. Not elite, no. But a hell of a lot better than anything that is going to play on this team this year at the QB position.

 

The discussion is your prediction for the ultimate upside of this approach to NFL football in 2015.

THIS.

Right. You have stated the plan, just like I did.

That isn't the topic of discussion. The topic is how far is that going to take us, or how far can it take any NFL team in the year 2015.

 

It's not enough. Is it "the best we can do at the moment?"

 

Maybe.

So keep expectations low, hope for the best...and enjoy that we aren't comatose as a franchise anymore.

 

This is probably about right. I wish we had 1 more piece to the puzzle though. Something to kick it up a notch.

 

I.E., more QB than we are probably going to have.

 

 

I know we won't convince you otherwise. That doesn't make you correct however.

 

EJ has shown what he has. It's not enough.

 

But let's not turn this into a freaking EJ thread.

Oh for sure it's progress. Would you be satisfied with a first round playoff appearance and loss?

 

I bet most would be. It would be an exciting week leading up to that game, that is for sure.

 

It's not in the slightest bit absurd to think that the Bills are being built in a way similar to the Seattle Seahawks or that they're close to having the same caliber defense/rushing attack which makes them who they are, especially now that Rex Ryan is the coach.

 

And of course this is about EJ because the question becomes can EJ have the same level of impact on winning football games for Buffalo that Wilson has for Seattle, and I believe in that possibility now that we have fresh blood at key coaching positions.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

 

 

It's not in the slightest bit absurd to think that the Bills are being built in a way similar to the Seattle Seahawks or that they're close to having the same caliber defense/rushing attack which makes them who they are, especially now that Rex Ryan is the coach.

 

And of course this is about EJ because the question becomes can EJ have the same level of impact on winning football games for Buffalo that Wilson has for Seattle, and I believe in that possibility now that we have fresh blood at key coaching positions.

Russell Wilson proved you can throw 4 INT's and have a QBR below 10 for 95% of the game, but with a team built around defense and rushing, 3 PA passes can win you a conference championship

[QCity]

No QB, no playoffs.

[Fadingpain]

 

 

 

It's not in the slightest bit absurd to think that the Bills are being built in a way similar to the Seattle Seahawks or that they're close to having the same caliber defense/rushing attack which makes them who they are, especially now that Rex Ryan is the coach.

 

And of course this is about EJ because the question becomes can EJ have the same level of impact on winning football games for Buffalo that Wilson has for Seattle, and I believe in that possibility now that we have fresh blood at key coaching positions.

Fair enough, but EJ's deficiencies can't be cured with coaching.

[The Big Cat]

Russell Wilson proved you can throw 4 INT's and have a QBR below 10 for 95% of the game, but with a team built around defense and rushing, 3 PA passes can win you a conference championship

 

Yeah, I think a lot of NFL fans in general just cling to this narrative that Wilson is some kind of wunderkinder. He's not.

Fair enough, but EJ's deficiencies can't be cured with coaching.

 

Well, if that's your stance, as is the stance of a lot of grumpy Bills fans, then so be it.

 

I happen to disagree, completely.

[Fadingpain]

Russell Wilson proved you can throw 4 INT's and have a QBR below 10 for 95% of the game, but with a team built around defense and rushing, 3 PA passes can win you a conference championship

Funny you would put this spin on that game. I would argue Seattle would not have played in the Superbowl if it was not for Wilson's elite level playmaking ability...when he avoided a sure sack for a massive loss late in the game...and turned it into the winning score.

 

He's a special player, much more special than his detractors think. Without a guy who has some type of magic at the QB position, it is tough to do anything of substance in this league. That statement is part of my intention in creating this thread.

 

How about Aaron Rodgers? Do you think he is a good QB? The previous year he was beaten at home by the 49ers and Colin Kaepernick. Rodgers numbers that day were horrid.

[vorpma]

What successful teams in the past have employed this very strategy? I'm honestly asking, I'm curious what our ceiling is.

If you are asking what successful teams have employed the strategy of a strong defense, strong running game and a QB not turning the ball over, ask the 1990 Buffalo Bills and SB 25! Second string QB and the old man, Otis Anderson kept the high powered Bills O off the field and controlled the ball 3/4 of the game. I think we can get through 2015, we still need the long term solution to QB.

[Fadingpain]

 

Yeah, I think a lot of NFL fans in general just cling to this narrative that Wilson is some kind of wunderkinder. He's not.

 

Well, if that's your stance, as is the stance of a lot of grumpy Bills fans, then so be it.

 

I happen to disagree, completely.

So let's review: you think EJ is a good QB and Russel Wilson is not.

 

Roger that.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Funny you would put this spin on that game. I would argue Seattle would not have played in the Superbowl if it was not for Wilson's elite level playmaking ability...when he avoided a sure sack for a massive loss late in the game...and turned it into the winning score.

 

He's a special player, much more special than his detractors think. Without a guy who has some type of magic at the QB position, it is tough to do anything of substance in this league. That statement is part of my intention in creating this thread.

 

How about Aaron Rodgers? Do you think he is a good QB? The previous year he was beaten at home by the 49ers and Colin Kaepernick. Rodgers numbers that day were horrid.

I didn't say Wilson is bad anywhere in my post. In fact, I thought he was a high 2nd round to low 1st round QB coming out of college despite his size and I really like him. I am, however, pointing out that in a big game his play was sub-par (like worse than what we can expect for much of this year). And despite his play that day, 3 plays turned the tide of the game because Seattle is built the way we are building. Now I don't expect our offense to make 3 big explosive plays like he did at the end of every game we play, but I also don't expect our QB to have 4 picks and a QBR below 10. I see no reason why the way we are built we cannot win any game we play. That does not mean we cannot afford to upgrade as well though.

[Nanker]

Tebow played in two playoff games in his career.

 

The first was an overtime win at home at the Wild Card level.

 

Then Denver went to New England and they lost 45-10.

 

So where does this strategy of ours max out?

 

1 playoff appearance and win?

 

More? Do you see EJ or an Orton-type going on the road in the playoffs and winning a game?

Right.

You're joking - right? A Playoff appearance and a win followed by a loss would equal a terrible year and set the team back years. If that's what you think or feel, you've got some serious issues.

[The Big Cat]

So let's review: you think EJ is a good QB and Russel Wilson is not.

 

Roger that.

 

Wilson's worst days are MUCH MUCH worse than EJ's to this point. And I'm not sold that his best days are exceedingly better or even unattainable for EJ.

 

You can simplify that to meet your intellect as much as necessary.

[Boatdrinks]

Wilson isnot a game manager, he's a dynamic playmaker at QB. But yeah, building around a top 10 QB only works for 10 teams, so we have to try something else. Not sure if it will work , but you have to try. QBs in last seasons playoffs AFC : Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, Manning, Flacco, Dalton NFC : Romo, Rodgers, Newton, Wilson, Stafford, Stanton. Overall not too encouraging, but we can be this years Arizona.

If you are asking what successful teams have employed the strategy of a strong defense, strong running game and a QB not turning the ball over, ask the 1990 Buffalo Bills and SB 25! Second string QB and the old man, Otis Anderson kept the high powered Bills O off the field and controlled the ball 3/4 of the game. I think we can get through 2015, we still need the long term solution to QB.

That is ancient history, and Simms played in 15 games that season. Giants / NinersMonday night game that November( ?) was called " the real Super Bowl" . It's not like JH guided that team through a season. Helped that they had Belichick who totally out coached Marchibroda that day. The game is played so differently today, Kelly's attempts in that high flying KGun of 1991 would only be middle of the pack in2014. Teams throw it a lot more than they did 25 years ago.

[Fadingpain]

I didn't say Wilson is bad anywhere in my post. In fact, I thought he was a high 2nd round to low 1st round QB coming out of college despite his size and I really like him. I am, however, pointing out that in a big game his play was sub-par (like worse than what we can expect for much of this year). And despite his play that day, 3 plays turned the tide of the game because Seattle is built the way we are building. Now I don't expect our offense to make 3 big explosive plays like he did at the end of every game we play, but I also don't expect our QB to have 4 picks and a QBR below 10. I see no reason why the way we are built we cannot win any game we play. That does not mean we cannot afford to upgrade as well though.

Fair enough and thanks for the clarification.

But did you notice the "final 4" teams in the playoffs last year, for example?

 

None had a QB with a name anything close to "EJ MANUEL" or "KYLE ORTON" or "Middling T. Mediocrity" on the roster.

 

You make a good point though...and that is a super strong defense can shut down a great offense. We know that all too well from the Superbowls around here.

You're joking - right? A Playoff appearance and a win followed by a loss would equal a terrible year and set the team back years. If that's what you think or feel, you've got some serious issues.

That's not what I said at all, but feel free to build these various straw man arguments!

 

I was asking how YOU would translate your Tebow reference to the Bills in 2015. That's all.

 

Wilson's worst days are MUCH MUCH worse than EJ's to this point. And I'm not sold that his best days are exceedingly better or even unattainable for EJ.

 

You can simplify that to meet your intellect as much as necessary.

This says much more about your intellect.

 

Unfortunately.

 

Fair enough man! You're entitled to your opinion.

Wilson isnot a game manager, he's a dynamic playmaker at QB. But yeah, building around a top 10 QB only works for 10 teams, so we have to try something else. Not sure if it will work , but you have to try. QBs in last seasons playoffs AFC : Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, Manning, Flacco, Dalton NFC : Romo, Rodgers, Newton, Wilson, Stafford, Stanton. Overall not too encouraging, but we can be this years Arizona.

 

That is ancient history, and Simms played in 15 games that season. Giants / NinersMonday night game that November( ?) was called " the real Super Bowl" . It's not like JH guided that team through a season. Helped that they had Belichick who totally out coached Marchibroda that day. The game is played so differently today, Kelly's attempts in that high flying KGun of 1991 would only be middle of the pack in2014. Teams throw it a lot more than they did 25 years ago.

Stop it! You're making way too much sense!

 

You suggest that Russell Wilson is, in fact, better than EJ! Stop it!

 

You also seem to suggest the game of football at the NFL level has progressed markedly in 25 years!

 

Just stop!