TheFunPolice Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I disagree that Lewis and Tuel "regressed" Tuel was never any good. His own college coach questioned his ability to play in the NFL. I guess I missed his period of good play. Thad Lewis is a career journeyman/3rd stringer who did ok here for a few games. He was pretty much what you would expect. He is exactly the same guy he's always been. Coaching makes some difference but ultimately you are what you are. Ryan Fitzpatrick has played on seemingly every team in the NFL (yes I am aware that that is not literally true) and he is and always has been pretty much the exact same guy, whether it's Marvin Lewis, Chan Gailey, Mike Munchak, or Bill O'Brien as the HC.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I disagree that Lewis and Tuel "regressed" Tuel was never any good. His own college coach questioned his ability to play in the NFL. I guess I missed his period of good play. Thad Lewis is a career journeyman/3rd stringer who did ok here for a few games. He was pretty much what you would expect. He is exactly the same guy he's always been. Coaching makes some difference but ultimately you are what you are. Ryan Fitzpatrick has played on seemingly every team in the NFL (yes I am aware that that is not literally true) and he is and always has been pretty much the exact same guy, whether it's Marvin Lewis, Chan Gailey, Mike Munchak, or Bill O'Brien as the HC. Agree on Tuel, disagree on Lewis. He played rather well under the circumstances in 2013 in actual games until he got hurt, threw some great passes, and he was ABYSMAL in 2014. He couldn't complete passes in skeleton drills.
TheFunPolice Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I'm not saying EJ can't be good but blaming Doug Marrone for EJ's complete ineptitude is wishful thinking as far as I'm concerned. The team's focus on "getting a QB" ought to speak volumes. Rex has no reason to tie his career to EJ. Either the kid can play or he can't. If he can then Rex will play him because Rex wants/needs to win.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I'm amazed that anyone thinks they should invest in another veteran QB. How many good QBs are acquired through trades or free agency vs the draft? You forgot Orton, he had the same issues and regressed. Yeah you're right. Orton did regress. And he did look sharp against Detroit and the first New England game. I mean, with respect to both Manuel and Orton, in fairness to Marrone for a second, they were both regularly missing guys that were wide open and making bad throws. I guess we'll find out soon enough but I'm inclined to think that EJ is gonna look the same. Not to mention, there's gonna be infinitely more pressure on him to perform than there was in either of his first two seasons. He is absolutely playing for a roster spot, which he has never had to do before.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I'm not saying EJ can't be good but blaming Doug Marrone for EJ's complete ineptitude is wishful thinking as far as I'm concerned. The team's focus on "getting a QB" ought to speak volumes. Rex has no reason to tie his career to EJ. Either the kid can play or he can't. If he can then Rex will play him because Rex wants/needs to win. Who is blaming Marrone for EJ's complete ineptitude (which I don't even think exists)?
TheFunPolice Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Agree on Tuel, disagree on Lewis. He played rather well under the circumstances in 2013 in actual games until he got hurt, threw some great passes, and he was ABYSMAL in 2014. He couldn't complete passes in skeleton drills. How is not being able to complete basic passing drills Marrone's fault? Who is blaming Marrone for EJ's complete ineptitude (which I don't even think exists)? Are we reading the same thread?
metzelaars_lives Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Agree on Tuel, disagree on Lewis. He played rather well under the circumstances in 2013 in actual games until he got hurt, threw some great passes, and he was ABYSMAL in 2014. He couldn't complete passes in skeleton drills. I actually agree with this. People forget but in 2013 Thad Lewis played VERY WELL for a backup QB. In fact, going into last season (or offseason I guess), the sentiment was that the Bills were set at backup QB. He definitely did regress. It is nice to have back and forth dialogue without it getting hostile and having to respond to whacko posts, misstatements, incorrect stats, horrendous grammar, childish emoticons, not even knowing what you're arguing about, etc. Edited March 5, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Kelly the Dog Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 How is not being able to complete basic passing drills Marrone's fault? Having four different people tell you four different things is one way. I'm not really sure but it happened with four of four quarterbacks. It happened with two of two running backs. It happened with every single offensive lineman. It happened with half of the WR.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Who is blaming Marrone for EJ's complete ineptitude (which I don't even think exists)? People all over this website do it every single day. They like to point to the fact that he is now the offensive line coach for Jacksonville if you haven't heard that one yet.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 People all over this website do it every single day. They like to point to the fact that he is now the offensive line coach for Jacksonville if you haven't heard that one yet. I understand what people say, and I read this board every single day. I don't think there is one person who believes or has said that EJs problems are all Marrone's. I don't think any EJ fanboy thinks he's good, only that we don't know or he could be.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I understand what people say, and I read this board every single day. I don't think there is one person who believes or has said that EJs problems are all Marrone's. I don't think any EJ fanboy thinks he's good, only that we don't know or he could be. You seem like a logical poster but you are giving other posters around here WAY too much credit.
TheFunPolice Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 "Could happen" and "is likely to happen" are totally different. Rex knows this is his last (and maybe best given this D) shot at the HC gig. If he loses here and is fired in a few years he will probably struggle to ever get another HC job. So I'd love to see EJ get a shot to compete just to see. If yet another coaching staff has no success in getting him to complete basic drills and basic offenses with an acceptable level of proficiency then I think we'll have our verdict.
chris heff Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Just to try and get off the EJ, Marrone treadmill. Why does anyone think the Bill should invest another $4-5 mil in another veteran QB? Far more good WBs are acquired through the draft.
What a Tuel Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 You seem like a logical poster but you are giving other posters around here WAY too much credit. EJ has his problems we all know that. He may turn out to be bad but when we stop and take a look at our offense and the problems we agree it has, they all impact the qb and therefore we aren't exactly setting Manuel up for success. My point and I think a lot of EJ supporters point is there aren't any good qbs out there, there really arent, so let's set ej up for success and see what happens. FYI that doesn't mean we don't get a couple qbs and have a qb competition either.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 You seem like a logical poster but you are giving other posters around here WAY too much credit. Name one that said anything like that.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 EJ has his problems we all know that. He may turn out to be bad but when we stop and take a look at our offense and the problems we agree it has, they all impact the qb and therefore we aren't exactly setting Manuel up for success. My point and I think a lot of EJ supporters point is there aren't any good qbs out there, there really arent, so let's set ej up for success and see what happens. FYI that doesn't mean we don't get a couple qbs and have a qb competition either. The thing is that I totally respect everything you're saying. Stranger things have happened than EJ Manuel developing into a franchise QB. I think the problem with a lot of the dialogue on here the last few days is that the EJ supporters (I support the guy too by the way- I'm a Bills fan, I just want good QB play, I don't care who it's from) are very intolerant of the people who think (as I do) that the chances of him becoming that guy are very slim. They insist "there's simply no way of knowing yet" and "he's only played 14 games." Some think there is no chance at all of him succeeding. I respect that opinion too. What I don't respect is when certain posters mock other QB's in the league who have proven more than Manuel, yet are ardent Manuel defenders.
GrassValleyGreg Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Wow. What a dumb thread. Could you grasp for straws anymore? I was listening to the segment when it happened. He said "it wouldn't surprise him" if they still brought in another free agent. He didn't even say he thinks it will happen. And Bulldog agreed with him. Sal, everybody's darling at the moment, disagreed with him. I happen to agree with Joe Buscaglia here. It wouldn't surprise me either. What is with all the vitriol constantly directed toward Buffalo media members? It's ridiculous. I live in Denver and I cannot even begin to tell you how much better Schopp and the Bulldog are than the afternoon drive guys in Denver. The only guys I'm not cool with are Gleason and Sullivan. The WGR guys are just fine. Joe B is good at what he does. So is Jeremy White. And I honestly believe that all you who say otherwise are just jealous that guys like Joe B worked to a point that they get to cover the Buffalo Bills for a living while you are sitting at a desk somewhere doing some mundane job and you're pissed off about what you didn't do with your career. Fireworks!
TheFunPolice Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Those who beleive in EJ are operating on faith. Those who do not beleive in EJ are operating on evidence. Yes, the evidence might be somewhat limited because he was hurt a lot year #1. But so far th evidence does not suggest a breakthrough is coming. That doesn't mean it's impossible but "let's see what happens for EJ" doesn't sound like a great plan for the season. Give him a chance to COMPETE for a roster/starting job but nothing more unless he EARNS it.
What a Tuel Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) The thing is that I totally respect everything you're saying. Stranger things have happened than EJ Manuel developing into a franchise QB. I think the problem with a lot of the dialogue on here the last few days is that the EJ supporters (I support the guy too by the way- I'm a Bills fan, I just want good QB play, I don't care who it's from) are very intolerant of the people who think (as I do) that the chances of him becoming that guy are very slim. They insist "there's simply no way of knowing yet" and "he's only played 14 games." Some think there is no chance at all of him succeeding. I respect that opinion too. What I don't respect is when certain posters mock other QB's in the league who have proven more than Manuel, yet are ardent Manuel defenders. I see what you are saying but at the same time pro ej people are getting annoyed with the people who have already discounted manuel and constantly say "we need a qb". One example is a friend of mine who asked what I think of cassel and I said," ok backup, good competition for manuel, but not a huge fan. "And he got pissed at me for bringing up manuel and said" he isn't the solution and never will be." Which led to the points that have been discussed repeatedly on these forums. The solution these people want isn't out there and until it is, they will never be happy and will always be voting for the constant qb carousel that is buffalo. So I can see why both sides are getting annoyed. As for the other qbs, they have a lot more games under their belt so what they have shown is seemingly the best we are going to get in the best case scenario and it is ugly. It's all about the ceiling. Edited March 5, 2015 by What a Tuel
beastman Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I agree with every single word you said here and you made me laugh with the Jack instead of Gatorade comment. Orton's crowning moment of the season was when the camera showed him throwing in that monster dip after they sealed up a win. i thought orton had packed the dip, and i mean PACKED, the dip in his lip near the end of the game when the outcome was still in question. like the chewing tobacco probably realy helped the dude mellow out and get his head in the game hahha. i love Ortons IDGAS attitude. would love to meet him at a bar and throw a few dozen cold ones back with him.
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