BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 If you bother to read JTSP's history, you'd see he's a troll with a lot of emotional baggage who spends his time spreading hate, not information. He's homophobic, antisemetic, and generally a pretty lousy person overall (at least his internet persona). This is all on top of being a piss-poor Bills fan who doesn't actually like the Bills, JTSP just likes trolling Bills fans on this board. The guy is a clown and a troll and this board would be a better place if he left it -- like it was a better place before he joined. Unlike JTSP, I will discuss things and debate them. I'm not claiming to be prescient, and the Incognito call wasn't my first miss and won't be my last. I just have a pretty high opinion of my knowledge of the game and this team based on a number of factors. But details aren't important to people like you. You think Schopp is good at his job after all. Now, unless you're related to JTSP, can we bury whatever imaginary beef you've created in your mind and focus on football? I assure you, JTSP doesn't need (or want) you to fight his battles for him. He doesn't believe half the **** he types, he only types it to piss people off. So, let's focus on what matters. Namely, how someone who seems somewhat intelligent can argue that the Bills are in worse shape today than they were a few days ago. That seems to be the side you're landing on, I'd love to know more about that and why you think Whaley is destroying this team with his myopic strategy. Where did I say they are in worse shape than they were a few days ago?Where did I say Whaley is destroying this team? Where did I say Schopp is good at this job? Details are certainly NOT important to you. The reading comprehension around here...jeez.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 Where did I say they are in worse shape than they were a few days ago?Where did I say Whaley is destroying this team? Where did I say Schopp is good at this job? Details are certainly NOT important to you. The reading comprehension around here...jeez. I don't know, maybe here? My main complaint about Whaley is being myopic the last two years in his moves for a chance at a wildcard birth. The Bills are nowhere near a championship calibre team right now and have been making moves which don't look at the long term of the club for sustainability.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Kiko is a very instinctive football player, will be a multiple pro bowl player if he stays healthy. That said the breakout year from Bradham, who will sign an extension this summer, and Preston Brown made Kiko expendable. LB for a RB, I think LBS like Kiko are more important than RBs,even top 5 RBs. But again, Bradham and Brown made Kiko expendable. So it's now position of strength for a position of need. So I like the trade from that standpoint. Could we have gotten more for Kiko? Like maybe throw in a 3rd to get Foles as well? Who knows. But simply put it was a fair trade for both teams, both teams will be happy with their player. Both players will have success. Win win trade.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I don't know, maybe here? Where does it say we are in worse shape? Where does it say he is destroying this team? Reading comprehension time. It says that he is sacraficing too much of the future but is still not good enough to compete for a champanship. Wildcard birth perhaps. Big difference, huh? Edited March 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 Where does it say we are in worse shape? Where does it say he is destroying this team? Reading comprehension time. It says that he is sacraficing too much of the future but is still not good enough to compete for a champanship. Wildcard birth perhaps. Big difference, huh? How is he not improving the roster for the long term? He traded for the best RB in the game (who'll be locked up in his prime years of which there should be 2 or 3 left), a veteran QB with success in the league, already made one move to improve the interior line, has made public statements of commitment to Dareus, Gilmore and Glenn (the cornerstones of our home grown talent) in addition to Bradham and Brown -- all this before UFA even begins. How is that myopic? How is that not building a championship roster? Or better yet, how do you even make that kind of assumption before UFA even begins? My reading comprehension might suck, but at least I'm trying to have a conversation with you. If you don't want to talk football and would rather just take shots at me, that's fine. I don't care, I just find it odd, Mrs. Schopp.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) How is he not improving the roster for the long term? He traded for the best RB in the game (who'll be locked up in his prime years of which there should be 2 or 3 left), a veteran QB with success in the league, already made one move to improve the interior line, has made public statements of commitment to Dareus, Gilmore and Glenn (the cornerstones of our home grown talent) in addition to Bradham and Brown -- all this before UFA even begins. How is that myopic? How is that not building a championship roster? Or better yet, how do you even make that kind of assumption before UFA even begins? My reading comprehension might suck, but at least I'm trying to have a conversation with you. If you don't want to talk football and would rather just take shots at me, that's fine. I don't care, I just find it odd, Mrs. Schopp. I disagree we are getting him in his prime. A major workhorse back that is turning 27. Likely to see a decline not a rise. Not based on my opinion but analytics on the RB position. Carousel of old QB's that are no better than EJ IMO who you drafted in the 1st round. That Watkins trade up I disagree with. There are no long term deals with Dareus, Gilmore or Glenn so I can't comment on that. Edited March 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 I disagree we are getting him in his prime. A major workhorse back that is turning 27. Likely to see a decline not a rise. Not based on my opinion but analytics on the RB position. Carousel of old QB's that are no better than EJ IMO who you drafted in the 1st round. That Watkins trade up I disagree with. There are no long term deals with Dareus, Gilmore or Glenn so I can't comment on that. 27 isn't old. He's had one major injury (in high school) and has been a bastion of health in the NFL. He's got miles, but has shown no signs he's slowing down physically. Saying McCoy is going to decline over the life of the deal is easy, but it's overlooking that you're likely to get 2 or even 3 seasons of play from a guy many in the NFL consider to be the best in the business at carrying the football. Even in decline, which he isn't, McCoy is the best RB the Bills have had since Marshawn -- but when they had Marshawn, he wasn't in his prime. He was developing. Shady comes fully developed, and now pissed off to prove Chip Kelly wrong. Being upset by this deal is either short term thinking or comes from being unfamiliar with a team willing to make bold moves. The trade up for Sammy you'll more than likely come around on this year. Let's see what the kid can do with a coaching staff who's competent on the offensive end, unlike the previous regime who felt Sammy was better used as a decoy. Cassel is at worst equal to Orton. I think he's better mainly because Orton is a giant vagina of immense proportions. So to say we haven't improved at QB is just not being honest with reality. Is Cassel the answer? Absolutely not. Is he the only QB the Bills will go after? Doubtful. But, if it comes down to Cassel or EJ starting in Roman's system, we're still in better shape than last year. That's how important coaching is in this league, and how important player development is. We didn't have a coaching staff last year or the year before that cared about developing talent. That's changing. There's zero reason to suspect the Bills won't make every effort to resign Dareus, Gilmore and Glenn. All three have been talked about by Whaley at length as key targets, and the Bills clearly have the cap space (yes, even with Shady's deal and Revis/Hughes if they get one of those guys) to make those deals happen. This front office is the managing this team better than any previous regime since the Polian years -- and you think Whaley is being myopic. I'm sorry, but that's absurd. The guy is trying to build a championship team, not just get to the wildcard round. You might not love all his moves (and I certainly don't love all his moves) but only a blind man would stand up and say that the Bills are going in the wrong direction. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Maury Ballstein Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Congrats greggy you have found the silver medal troll.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 Congrats greggy you have found the silver medal troll.
What a Tuel Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I disagree we are getting him in his prime. A major workhorse back that is turning 27. Likely to see a decline not a rise. Not based on my opinion but analytics on the RB position. Carousel of old QB's that are no better than EJ IMO who you drafted in the 1st round. That Watkins trade up I disagree with. There are no long term deals with Dareus, Gilmore or Glenn so I can't comment on that. Do you realize CJ Spiller is 27? And Fred Jackson is 34? Anthony Dixon is 27? This latest trend of saying a running back is on the decline because they are going to be 27 is nonsense. He is on the decline when he shows he is declining. 2014 did not show that he was declining despite "only" getting 1,319 yards rushing instead of 1,607 in 2013. He was losing favor with Kelly. I watched a few Eagles games last year and they just weren't giving him the ball at certain times like they normally would. The addition of Sproles didn't help either who is a valuable RB himself, but that doesn't take away from McCoy, he still got 1,300+ yards!!
Rob's House Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I could not disagree more. Its KIKO in a horrific landslide. McCoy is a small back who has played 6 years. He is already on the decline and RB is the most plug-and-play position in the league. Give any old bum an OL that opens holes and he will get yards. This is like the debate between the people that think the Watkins trade was brilliant and those who think it was a catastrophe. With few exceptions (usually involving the Colts of late) a trade usually isn't that lopsided. The biggest loss here is cap space. Kiko being young is balanced by the fact that he'd command a hefty salary in a couple of years if he plays well enough to justify lamenting the loss of him.
What a Tuel Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) This is like the debate between the people that think the Watkins trade was brilliant and those who think it was a catastrophe. With few exceptions (usually involving the Colts of late) a trade usually isn't that lopsided. The biggest loss here is cap space. Kiko being young is balanced by the fact that he'd command a hefty salary in a couple of years if he plays well enough to justify lamenting the loss of him. Right, people are looking for who "won" and who was the stupid team. I don't think either one was stupid. The Eagles got what they wanted (cap space and a young good LB) and the Bills got what they wanted (a top RB). We could afford to lose something on our defense. We cannot afford to not improve our offense. This 100% improves our offense. I do think the Eagles are going to be in trouble offensively if they keep getting rid of their good players though. Edited March 5, 2015 by What a Tuel
Rob's House Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Where does it say we are in worse shape? Where does it say he is destroying this team? Right here: we are in worse shape. he is destroying this team.
Big Turk Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Kiko became expendable with the emergence of Brown last year...only so many "3 down linebackers" are needed on a team...some teams would be happy with one, most would be ecstatic with two, we have 3... Not enough positions on the field for 3, considering more than half of all defensive snaps are in the nickel, with 2 LBs max... I don't necessarily like it, but its not like its going to hurt us, he didn't play last year and they were fantastic... McCoy certainly is a top 5, if not top 3 RB in the league, although at a position that is becoming marginalized... All in all I think both teams can say its a fair trade and that they got a good deal. One of the rare instances both teams come away better for it
Big Turk Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) 27 isn't old. He's had one major injury (in high school) and has been a bastion of health in the NFL. He's got miles, but has shown no signs he's slowing down physically. Saying McCoy is going to decline over the life of the deal is easy, but it's overlooking that you're likely to get 2 or even 3 seasons of play from a guy many in the NFL consider to be the best in the business at carrying the football. Even in decline, which he isn't, McCoy is the best RB the Bills have had since Marshawn -- but when they had Marshawn, he wasn't in his prime. He was developing. Shady comes fully developed, and now pissed off to prove Chip Kelly wrong. Being upset by this deal is either short term thinking or comes from being unfamiliar with a team willing to make bold moves. The trade up for Sammy you'll more than likely come around on this year. Let's see what the kid can do with a coaching staff who's competent on the offensive end, unlike the previous regime who felt Sammy was better used as a decoy. Cassel is at worst equal to Orton. I think he's better mainly because Orton is a giant vagina of immense proportions. So to say we haven't improved at QB is just not being honest with reality. Is Cassel the answer? Absolutely not. Is he the only QB the Bills will go after? Doubtful. But, if it comes down to Cassel or EJ starting in Roman's system, we're still in better shape than last year. That's how important coaching is in this league, and how important player development is. We didn't have a coaching staff last year or the year before that cared about developing talent. That's changing. There's zero reason to suspect the Bills won't make every effort to resign Dareus, Gilmore and Glenn. All three have been talked about by Whaley at length as key targets, and the Bills clearly have the cap space (yes, even with Shady's deal and Revis/Hughes if they get one of those guys) to make those deals happen. This front office is the managing this team better than any previous regime since the Polian years -- and you think Whaley is being myopic. I'm sorry, but that's absurd. The guy is trying to build a championship team, not just get to the wildcard round. You might not love all his moves (and I certainly don't love all his moves) but only a blind man would stand up and say that the Bills are going in the wrong direction. Rome wasn't built in a day. I think Roman sees his Alex Smith when he was with the 49ers with Cassell... And right now we are good enough to get to the same record as they had that year with our D, special teams and offensive talent. Edited March 5, 2015 by matter2003
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 I think Roman sees his Alex Smith when he was with the 49ers with Cassell... And right now we are good enough to get to the same record as they had that year with our D, special teams and offensive talent. You could be right, I wouldn't complain if it worked out that way at all. I completely agree with your last point.
Big Turk Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 So tough, but is Shady really better than CJ and at the salary cap cost. I think we could have found a replacement cheaper and kept the great young linebacker. And even worse if McCoy doesn't want to stay in Buffalo. It's real close though The whole point is, we only need so many great young linebackers...if Brown didnt turn out to be Kiko 2.0 last year, they likely dont make this move... We had 3 great, young, 3 Down LB's...most teams would love one of those, be ecstatic with 2...we had 3...with 55%ish of snaps on defense being nickel, one of those 3 would be off the field...makes more sense to get the setup we had this year...2 "3 down LBs" mixed with a run stopper(likely David Harris). That way Harris comes off the field on nickel snaps and gets replaced by a DB...
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