WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 And when that's full - and by all accounts it soon should be, there's more room for the jumpers on the Walt Whitman Bridge. Could not happen to a better fan base. Well, maybe the Pats*... if on the day Marcia retires BB comes out as a cross-dresser and admits he cheated every day on the job, and Kraft has compromising videos of him and farm animals leaked on Vimeo. I am biased, as I am dating one, but I find that Eagles fans tend to share our "I'm optimistic!"/"Well maybe it won't be so bad..."/"Hey, only we get to talk how bad our team is!"/"DOOOOOOOMEEEED" cycle, so I can't hate them. That and they hate the Cowboys. Man, f*ck the Cowboys.
Dibs Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Demarco Murray will probably end up in Philly now. They get Murray plus Kiko for cheaper than McCoy. I'm jealous Your crystal ball is firmly tuned into Murray's contract then?
K D Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Your crystal ball is firmly tuned into Murray's contract then?yep he will get $7-8M per depending how they structure it. You will see tomorrow
Matt in KC Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Figured this was a good thread to make my first post. I liked this trade for McCoy from the second a friend texted me the news. I only read the first 17 pages of this thread, so maybe this has been discussed: I think the success of Kiko (and to an extent Bradham) is a product of the D-line. It's easy to rack up tackles when you are clean because Marcell and Kyle are playing in front of you. For instance, Ray Lewis' effectiveness was extended by having Ngata soaking up blocks in front of him. Kiko was undersized to play in the middle and his contributions were going to be made by speed and agility . . . but he tore his ACL . . . again. This trade could end up being very heavily one-sided for the Bills, because we know what Shady can do. We traded Kiko to the one person - Chip Kelly - who may overvalue Kiko more than the collective TBD. I say well done Whaley. Another take: wasn't Kiko the extra pick the Bills swiped from the Rams when they traded up to pick Tavon Austin? So Whaley got EJ Manuel and Shady McCoy with that pick? Again, I say well done Whaley. Go Bills! Nice first post. Welcome to the board! I think some of our problems with the run defense two years ago was on plays when Kiko, or others, were out of position. Sure, he flew around and made a lot of nice plays, more aggressive than you typically see from a rookie, but there were quite a others where we were gashed because he was caught in the wrong gap. I agree, EJ Manuel and Kiko selected from a single draft pick was great maneuvering by Whaley.
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 yep he will get $7-8M per depending how they structure it. You will see tomorrow saw some chatter that reuniting with a close friend in bradford was also a big part of the appeal in philly..... heck, playing dallas twice a year might be too.... you cant just declare he wouldve been ours at the same terms. and i still think mccoy is the better player.
JohnC Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 saw some chatter that reuniting with a close friend in bradford was also a big part of the appeal in philly..... heck, playing dallas twice a year might be too.... you cant just declare he wouldve been ours at the same terms. and i still think mccoy is the better player. Kelly knew what he was doing when he made the McCoy deal. He gave up a very high quality back and not only got a good young LB in Kinko but also got enough cap relief to acquire a good CB in free agency. In additon, not only did he sign the back from San Diego there is a good chance that he will also sign Murray, thus fortifying the backfield and to a great extent offsetting the loss of McCoy. From a roster standpoint he is being very creative and courageous in rebuilding his roster. The big gamble he made is in trading Foles for Bradford. That will be the main factor in determing how successful his numerous transactions turn out to be. I'm not suggesting that he got the better of the deal in his trade with the Bills. The Bills did what was right for them and he did what was right for his team. But without a doubt it is very interesting watching Kelly make his many deals and observing his outside the box thinking. He is not a follower of the conventional NFL way of doing business, he is a trend setter.
GG Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Kelly knew what he was doing when he made the McCoy deal. He gave up a very high quality back and not only got a good young LB in Kinko but also got enough cap relief to acquire a good CB in free agency. In additon, not only did he sign the back from San Diego there is a good chance that he will also sign Murray, thus fortifying the backfield and to a great extent offsetting the loss of McCoy. From a roster standpoint he is being very creative and courageous in rebuilding his roster. The big gamble he made is in trading Foles for Bradford. That will be the main factor in determing how successful his numerous transactions turn out to be. I'm not suggesting that he got the better of the deal in his trade with the Bills. The Bills did what was right for them and he did what was right for his team. But without a doubt it is very interesting watching Kelly make his many deals and observing his outside the box thinking. He is not a follower of the conventional NFL way of doing business, he is a trend setter. Murray fell in his lap. Would he still be entertaining him if Gore had signed as intended?
JohnC Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Murray fell in his lap. Would he still be entertaining him if Gore had signed as intended? When the free agency market opens up things happen quickly and unexpectedly. Players that you target and expect to sign often go elsewhere. Players that you didn't believe you are in position to get for a variety of reasons become available. Teams that are in a more flexible cap position are in a better situation to respond to the quickly changing market. Kelly put his team in a good position to take advantage of the situation he didn't expect to happen. That is the nature of of free agency.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 yep he will get $7-8M per depending how they structure it. You will see tomorrow You are aware that Shady's $40M deal divided over five years equals $8M a year, right?
LB3 Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 The Eagles now have 4 RB's, as long as the Matthews deal still goes through as it's being reported. Top three: Murray - 5/42m Matthews - 3/11.5m Sproles - 2/8.6m (remaining)
Nanker Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 I am biased, as I am dating one, but I find that Eagles fans tend to share our "I'm optimistic!"/"Well maybe it won't be so bad..."/"Hey, only we get to talk how bad our team is!"/"DOOOOOOOMEEEED" cycle, so I can't hate them. That and they hate the Cowboys. Man, f*ck the Cowboys. Ha, ha man, I'm with you on that!
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Kelly knew what he was doing when he made the McCoy deal. He gave up a very high quality back and not only got a good young LB in Kinko but also got enough cap relief to acquire a good CB in free agency. In additon, not only did he sign the back from San Diego there is a good chance that he will also sign Murray, thus fortifying the backfield and to a great extent offsetting the loss of McCoy. From a roster standpoint he is being very creative and courageous in rebuilding his roster. The big gamble he made is in trading Foles for Bradford. That will be the main factor in determing how successful his numerous transactions turn out to be. I'm not suggesting that he got the better of the deal in his trade with the Bills. The Bills did what was right for them and he did what was right for his team. But without a doubt it is very interesting watching Kelly make his many deals and observing his outside the box thinking. He is not a follower of the conventional NFL way of doing business, he is a trend setter. Wait... Did you just argue that he unloaded shady to create space to add players despite also noting he signed a lesser running back at higher average pay to replace him (plus another back)? Edited March 13, 2015 by NoSaint
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Wait... Did you just argue that he unloaded shady to create space to add players despite also noting he signed a lesser running back at higher average pay to replace him (plus another back)? looks that way.
JohnC Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Wait... Did you just argue that he unloaded shady to create space to add players despite also noting he signed a lesser running back at higher average pay to replace him (plus another back)? From what I read he didn't expect to sign Murray. But because he made a number of deals and cuts that gave him a lot of cap space he was in a position to sign Murray. With the McCoy trade he acquired Kiko and added a good DB from Seattle. So the end result is that even with the loss of McCoy he has a strong running back corps and he has added players to help the defense. You can't look at his salary dump maneuverings only from how much he is now spending on his backfield. The end result is that he has more depth (Mathews, Sproles & Murray) at that position and arguably isn't very much diminished and his defense is bolstered. Edited March 13, 2015 by JohnC
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 How can anyone truly expect to sign any player in FA? There are too many variables.
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 From what I read he didn't expect to sign Murray. But because he made a number of deals and cuts that gave him a lot of cap space he was in a position to sign Murray. With the McCoy trade he acquired Kiko and added a good DB from Seattle. So the end result is that even with the loss of McCoy he has a strong running back corps and he has added players to help the defense. You can't look at his salary dump maneuverings only from how much he is now spending on his backfield. The end result is that he has more depth (Mathews, Sproles & Murray) at that position and arguably isn't very much diminished and his defense is bolstered. i understand that he reshaped the backfield - but i think you have to argue he dumped shady and reinvested to sign murray and matthews as the logical 1-1, not he dumped murray to sign a CB and then in turn just happened to spend all that money on rb anyway. he didnt cut the backfield salary, so it may be a minor point or semantics, but its tough to see he cut rb money for a cb here.
ALF Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 With this being a strong draft for RB's I wonder if we could have gotten a good one in the 2nd and still have Kiko. Easy on the salary cap also.
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 With this being a strong draft for RB's I wonder if we could have gotten a good one in the 2nd and still have Kiko. Easy on the salary cap also. Well.... Now you don't have to wonder if we will have a dynamic playmaker back there - so that's a perk. Relying on pick 50 for a guy that you will design the whole offense around seems like it would cause way more wonder.
JohnC Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) i understand that he reshaped the backfield - but i think you have to argue he dumped shady and reinvested to sign murray and matthews as the logical 1-1, not he dumped murray to sign a CB and then in turn just happened to spend all that money on rb anyway. he didnt cut the backfield salary, so it may be a minor point or semantics, but its tough to see he cut rb money for a cb here. I disagree with how you are characterizing my position. When Kelly traded McCoy for Kiko he got in addition more cap room to also acquire a DB from Seattle .He was then able to get a good back with an injury history (not as good as McCoy) who should be productive behind one of the best run blocking lines in the game. From what I understand Kelly had no intention in pursuing Murray. It was Murray who called the Eagles and exhorted them to consider a deal for him. The Murray deal was not originally associated with the McCoy deal. It fell into their lap and they seized the opportunity to get a premier back. Where I respectfully disagree with your perspective is that you are collectively viewing these transactions from the primary viewpoint that they overspent on a position. That is not how I am analyzing these transactions. All the players Kelly signed are good value $$$ pick ups. Kiko and the DB they added should bolster the defense and the the backfield grouping of Sproles, Mathews and Murray more than compensate for the loss of McCoy. No one can predict how the free agent market is going to work out. Players come and go on their own volition seeking better deals and organizations respond by letting players go and picking up other players to compensate for the vacated players. The Eagles wanted to keep Maclin but he decided to sign with the Chiefs. The process is quixotic, face paced and to a great extent is uncontrollable and messy. From what I read and heard on the radio it was Demarco Murray who notified the Eagles and not the other way around. It was an unexpected player availability. So they did what good organizations do by seizing the opportunity to sign a talented running back when initially they didn't plan for it. What I find most intriguing about Kelly's dealings is the qb trade he made to get Bradford. Kelly is making a big gamble that he is getting the right qb to implement his imaginative offensive schemes. In my view Kelly is ahead of the curve in a league full of conventional thinkers and followers. Only time will tell whether he is very smart or foolish. Edited March 13, 2015 by JohnC
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Where I respectfully disagree with your perspective is that you are collectively viewing these transactions from the primary viewpoint that they overspent on a position. That is not how I am analyzing these transactions. All the players Kelly signed are good value $$$ pick ups. Kiko and the DB they added should bolster the defense and the the backfield grouping of Sproles, Mathews and Murray more than compensate for the loss of McCoy. i dont think they overspent - i think they had a dollar in, dollar out spending cycle at the position so you cant characterize it as saved money to acquire a running back. if we cut fred and then signed someone else, then signed powell at a similar price to fred, you would not characterize it as the bills saving money to get the other player and then also getting a replacement running back... wise spending or not, it seemed like spending your savings twice in the narrative.
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