GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Actually can you point me to any poster on here where they wanted Kiko gone because he doesn't fit Rex's scheme? No he can't because nobody said that - and he hasn't suggested they did. There have, however, been plenty of threads discussing how the personnel we have might be utilised in the new scheme and in a number of those people have questioned where Alonso's natural fit is. Last year in a 4-3 they were going to move him to the weak side, in Pettine's 3-4 hybrid he played as (most of the time) a single middle linebacker. It is certainly open to debate how he fits and most people agreed that Bradham and Brown were likely every down players.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) What does me never posting about Kiko being "il-fitted, underutilized and worth trading" have to do with Kiko being all 3 of those things. The facts, which are the emergence of Brown and Bradham and how the defense played last year, are why Ryan wanted to trade Kiko. Those facts don't change just because I never posted it. There were never any facts that were brought forth by any poster on here of those things prior to the trade. Edited March 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Wayne Cubed Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 They were never any facts that were brought forth by any poster on here prior to the trade. So what? They are still facts and to some, like myself, justify why Kiko was traded.
eball Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 There were never any facts that were brought forth by any poster on here of those things prior to the trade. Read GunnerBill's post above yours.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 you dont have to spend a lot to get a serviceable anything. the upgrade cost of a RB is not a ton (we just got an ELITE guy for 8m per -- what other position can you do that? Guard?) and the guy is going to have 400 touches this year plus blocking, etc.... Well, we did have to give up Kiko.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) So what? They are still facts and to some, like myself, justify why Kiko was traded. Yet not a single person on here posted that so it's a rational that I have a hard time to take seriously. If people really believed that atleast one person would have had that axe to grind. Edited March 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Wayne Cubed Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Yet not a single person on here posted that so it's a rational that I have a hard time to take seriously. If people really believed that atleast one person would have had that axe to grind. Why would someone have an axe to grind about Kiko's place on the defense. Have people questioned it? Sure they have but it wouldn't be a point that someone deliberately beat a drum about, Kiko was still on the team at that point, so what would be the point? Edited March 5, 2015 by Wayne Cubed
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Why would someone have an axe to grind about Kiko's place on the defense. Have people questioned it? Sure they have but it wouldn't be a point that someone deliberately beat a drum about, Kiko was still on the team at that point, so what would be the point? Can you point me to where people have qustioned Kiko in this defense? I find that fascinating because I haven't come across that here. In fact only the opposite how dominate the defense would be with adding Kiko back in. If you can point that out to me that would be great. Edited March 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 It is very simple. Nobody "wanted Kiko off the team" because they all appreciate (even those who maybe thought he was a little overrated) that Kiko Alonso is a good football player and you never chase good football players off your team, especially not young ones. However, people did question his natural fit in this defense. I don't see what is so hard to grasp here: saying "player X is a good player but I am not sure how he fits" does not have to equate to "trade his ass".
Dorkington Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 It is very simple. Nobody "wanted Kiko off the team" because they all appreciate (even those who maybe thought he was a little overrated) that Kiko Alonso is a good football player and you never chase good football players off your team, especially not young ones. However, people did question his natural fit in this defense. I don't see what is so hard to grasp here: saying "player X is a good player but I am not sure how he fits" does not have to equate to "trade his ass". +1
Rob's House Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 My point is more: you don't need to spend a lot to get a serviceable RB. Whether that is using a high draft pick, making a big trade, or paying a lot to a FA-- those "expensive" moves are unnecessary, IMO. Again, don't get me wrong. I think McCoy is great and he is going to out-produce nearly every back in the league. But is it more valuable to have a great 1700 yard back, or instead a platoon of a couple of good guys who can get you 1300 combined yards (plus still have Kiko)? Looking at our current situation, I would have probably gone with Bryce, boobie, and fred, and then signed a cheap vet to a 1-yr deal, like Gore. Then, next year with fred retiring likely, draft a guy in the 3rd or 4th round. Having a RB who can get you 1700 yds where the alternative would have gotten you 1300 is a bigger advantage than a QB who gets 4200 yds instead of 3800, LMO.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Can you point me to where people have qustioned Kiko in this defense? I find that fascinating because I haven't come across that here. In fact only the opposite how dominate the defense would be with adding Kiko back in. If you can point that out to me that would be great. You know there is a search function right?
NoSaint Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I am baffled. If you really thought this can you point me to your and Wayne's posts on Kiko in Rex's scheme that he is il-fitted, underutilized and worth trading. Otherwise I find you are just conjuring stuff up to rationlize the trade. Actually can you point me to any poster on here where they wanted Kiko gone because he doesn't fit Rex's scheme? i feel like i have seen a few people in the overboard "stop the run at all costs because it was our latest weakness" group argue it -- but it wasnt a terribly common talking point.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) You know there is a search function right? Because you can't find it either? Well on Oct 28 Mike Schopp discussed trading Kiko for an OL or TE (which makes more sense to me actually than a RB) and one of the biggest supporters of the Kiko trade now GreggyT "Schopp confuses controversial opinions (good for his business) with absurdly idiotic opinions (bad for his business and explains why he's in Buffalo rather than a larger radio market)." http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/172600-do-the-bills-make-a-move-at-the-deadline/page-2 Edited March 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Wayne Cubed Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Because you can't find it either? Well on Oct 28 Mike Schopp discussed trading Kiko for an OL or TE (which makes more sense to me actually than a RB) and one of the biggest supporters of the Kiko trade now GreggyT "Schopp confuses controversial opinions (good for his business) with absurdly idiotic opinions (bad for his business and explains why he's in Buffalo rather than a larger radio market)." http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/172600-do-the-bills-make-a-move-at-the-deadline/page-2 I'm not going to do your work for you. And now you are calling out posters because no one suggested that Kiko be traded? Wow.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Can you point me to where people have qustioned Kiko in this defense? I find that fascinating because I haven't come across that here. In fact only the opposite how dominate the defense would be with adding Kiko back in. If you can point that out to me that would be great.That's easy. He was being moved outside because he's not really big enough to play mlb in a 4-3. We didn't have anyone to play in the middle in 2013 so that is where he played, and he excelled. Since then, we added Brown who is bigger and much better suited to play inside, and Bradham exploded on the scene. As well as Spikes to play the middle (although he may be gone). Kiko is not going to play rush olb under any circumstances. The position he would play is where Bradham will play. Brown will man one of the inside slots. David Harris will play the other, as he is very likely to be signed to QB this defense. So it's Kiko versus Bradham. Would Kiko beat him out? Probably but not for sure. Bradham is a beast and may be a star like Kiko could be. But there is no reason to bench Bradham either. That is why people are saying there may not be a position for him. They don't want to play him in the middle. Kiko is a great coverage linebacker. So there is surely a use for him. It's not like he would be riding the bench. He could probably be very very effective in Ryan's defense. But because of Brown who is better suited than Kiko for the middle, and Bradham's ascension who fits Ryan's mold a little better because he's bigger and a killer, Kiko becomes expendable.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) OMG there was a trade Kiko thread. This is pure gold. Of course EBall was against the idea. Of course the only individual with actual proper insight was bashed. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/173550-trade-kiko/ Edited March 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Dorkington Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Before and right after the trade, I wasn't a fan of the concept of trading Kiko. After listening to some arguments, I understand the trade. I think that's where a lot of people sit. Not sure why that's so wrong.
GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Okay..... here are two threads.... http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/176267-predict-the-lb-packages/ http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/175541-who-are-the-4-starting-lbs/page-4 I can only see one or two posts actually questioning if he fits. But there are plenty questioning where he fits in the Rex Ryan defense. A myriad of views on inside v outside and strong side v weak side.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 OMG there was a trade Kiko thread. This is pure gold. Of course EBall was against the idea. Of course the only individual with actual proper insight was bashed. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/173550-trade-kiko/ In a 4-3, without Rex Ryan, he would have a natural position. And if you put Lesean McCoy and Rex Ryan in that thread a lot of people would be saying hell yeah.
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