Deranged Rhino Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Final verdict from me. I think this was a big mistake. A very big mistake that will bite us in the ass for 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Final verdict from me. I think this was a big mistake. A very big mistake that will bite us in the ass for 10 years.Really? Wow he played well for 5 maybe 6 games. He made some freakish athletic plays but he was terrible in run defense. I would have loved to see him as a 4-3 WOLB in Schwartz's defense. He might have been great. As a MLB he is just too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Really? Wow he played well for 5 maybe 6 games. He made some freakish athletic plays but he was terrible in run defense. I would have loved to see him as a 4-3 WOLB in Schwartz's defense. He might have been great. As a MLB he is just too small. Yes, he had a rough go after playing 100% of the snaps in his rookie year at a position he was too small for and by the end of the year could not cut it. But, playing @ WLB he will be freed up from a lot of contact and be able to pass defend. He will excel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 what it does show is that it's not the slam dunk some think around here that McCoy > Murray. IMO Murray is better too. But more importantly, if you put them in the same category, then the combination of Murray + Kiko for the same price > McCoy alone .... that's the real comparison. We'll relive this meaningless debate well past the time the two runners retire. We had an opportunity to pick up McCoy for someone who may or may not have had an impact on the Bills defense (I tend to think he was odd man out and said as much early in 2015). That is a positive. The Bills made an aggressive move and now people like you are whining about it. But, but, but, what if? What if don't play the games. What if the Bills had once drafted Joe Montana? What if the Bills had drafted Gronk?What if the Bills had passed on Spiller? What if the Bills hadn't traded for Losman. In other words, you can't put them in the same category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yes, he had a rough go after playing 100% of the snaps in his rookie year at a position he was too small for and by the end of the year could not cut it. But, playing @ WLB he will be freed up from a lot of contact and be able to pass defend. He will excel. If you read the stuff here in Phiily, he's playing ILB in a 3-4, at least at the start of camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 If you read the stuff here in Phiily, he's playing ILB in a 3-4, at least at the start of camp.there are two lbs in a 34. If he is playing Jack that's still a damn good position for him. Will might be better for him. Jack is far better then Mike. He will be in coverage 60-70% of the time. Doubt he will be used to blitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 there are two lbs in a 34. If he is playing Jack that's still a damn good position for him. Will might be better for him. Jack is far better then Mike. He will be in coverage 60-70% of the time. Doubt he will be used to blitz Meh. Three seasons of a top-5 RB > 5-6 seasons of an all-pro LB (and Kiko isn't all-pro yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) there are two lbs in a 34. If he is playing Jack that's still a damn good position for him. Will might be better for him. Jack is far better then Mike. He will be in coverage 60-70% of the time. Doubt he will be used to blitz We will not be playing a 3-4 on pass downs or pass formations, which is more than 50% of the plays. We will split the remaining plays between 4-3 fronts and 3-4 fronts. I would guess we are in a 3-4 less than 30% of the plays. Edited March 23, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 We will not be playing a 3-4 on pass downs or pass formations, which is more than 50% of the plays. We will split the remaining plays between 4-3 fronts and 3-4 fronts. I would guess we are in a 3-4 less than 30% of the plays.we may line up in dime or nickel more then 50% I'd bet we do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 there are two lbs in a 34. If he is playing Jack that's still a damn good position for him. Will might be better for him. Jack is far better then Mike. He will be in coverage 60-70% of the time. Doubt he will be used to blitz Do you think the Bills would have been able to acquire a top tier back in a trade if they didn't give up a player of value? If Kiko becomes a quality long term linebacker the Bills certainly are not going to be surprised. The mere fact that they drafted him in the second round is a realization that they believed that he had the potential to be a starter in this league. The Bills needed to fortify an impotent offense. They got a good jump start in accomplishing that in acquiring an impact back who fits their intended offensive scheme. They traded a potentially good linebacker from a top tier unit that played well without him last year due to an injury. As I stated in a prior post the way to evaluate any player transaction is not from the perspective who got the better of the deal but from the perspective that does it improve your team. If it does then it is a good deal for you regardless how well the player plays for the other team. the other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Do you think the Bills would have been able to acquire a top tier back in a trade if they didn't give up a player of value? If Kiko becomes a quality long term linebacker the Bills certainly are not going to be surprised. The mere fact that they drafted him in the second round is a realization that they believed that he had the potential to be a starter in this league. The Bills needed to fortify an impotent offense. They got a good jump start in accomplishing that in acquiring an impact back who fits their intended offensive scheme. They traded a potentially good linebacker from a top tier unit that played well without him last year due to an injury. As I stated in a prior post the way to evaluate any player transaction is not from the perspective who got the better of the deal but from the perspective that does it improve your team. If it does then it is a good deal for you regardless how well the player plays for the other team. the other team. By that rationale, why not just trade our next 3 first round draft picks for McCoy instead? Most people don't want to admit it here, but the Bills got ripped off on this trade. Brandon Marshall got traded for a 5th round pick. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th. We received a 4th for Lynch. You have to factor in the value of the position and the salary implications too. Sorry, but this was a dumb move. It's not just about making your team better. It's also about maximizing your assets as well. You should technically be able to get more for Kiko than a good running back who has more career carries than any back on the Bills roster as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 By that rationale, why not just trade our next 3 first round draft picks for McCoy instead? Most people don't want to admit it here, but the Bills got ripped off on this trade. Brandon Marshall got traded for a 5th round pick. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th. We received a 4th for Lynch. You have to factor in the value of the position and the salary implications too. Sorry, but this was a dumb move. It's not just about making your team better. It's also about maximizing your assets as well. You should technically be able to get more for Kiko than a good running back who has more career carries than any back on the Bills roster as it is. A "good" RB? Try an elite RB, top three at his position in the league. Your bias is showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 By that rationale, why not just trade our next 3 first round draft picks for McCoy instead? Most people don't want to admit it here, but the Bills got ripped off on this trade. Brandon Marshall got traded for a 5th round pick. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th. We received a 4th for Lynch. You have to factor in the value of the position and the salary implications too. Sorry, but this was a dumb move. It's not just about making your team better. It's also about maximizing your assets as well. You should technically be able to get more for Kiko than a good running back who has more career carries than any back on the Bills roster as it is. I don't understand your reasoning. We hopefully got an impact back for a potentially good defensive player who didn't even play last year on one of the best defenses. Not trading picks for a need allows us to address other needs with future high picks. Why do you believe Kiko should have brought more in a trade? He is coming off of a knee injury and he didn't play at all last year. We are getting a pro bowl running back for a player on a unit that excelled without his presence. It's apparent that we disagree but from a Bills' perspective they upgraded an impotent offense. If Kiko plays well for the Eagles then so be it. The issue for the Bills isn't so much what the deal does for the Eagles but it's what does McCoy do for the Bills. On balance I believe that this is good and fair deal for both teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 By that rationale, why not just trade our next 3 first round draft picks for McCoy instead? Most people don't want to admit it here, but the Bills got ripped off on this trade. Brandon Marshall got traded for a 5th round pick. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th. We received a 4th for Lynch. You have to factor in the value of the position and the salary implications too. Sorry, but this was a dumb move. It's not just about making your team better. It's also about maximizing your assets as well. You should technically be able to get more for Kiko than a good running back who has more career carries than any back on the Bills roster as it is. I honestly don't know the appropriate market for a LB who had a nice rookie season, along with three surgeries on his lower body over the past five years. And oh yeah, he didn't play a single down last year. Somebody got ripped off in this trade, alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 This trade reminds me of the Watkins trade for me personally. My gut reaction was that it was dumb. After thinking about it I have mixed feelings about it. I really liked Kiko but he was more a 4-3 MLB and his injury concerns were legit. McCoy is a dynamic talent but its not in vogue to pay RB's a lot of money and we are tied to him for 2 season at the age of 27. Overall the trade makes sense if you look at the Bills QB situation and the need for talent on the offense. The Bills weren't going to get a great QB without a 1st rounder. Kiko wasn't the best fit for the defense and he had injury concerns. So the Bills decided to upgrade the talent around the QB position. A very very good RB who is still in his prime was a good way to start the rebuild of the offense. Hopefully Clay, Harvin, and InCognito add to the mix as well as the team drafts a good guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) What if the Bills had passed on Spiller? You wouldn't have had to listen to my arias of discontent. Edited March 23, 2015 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 we may line up in dime or nickel more then 50% I'd bet we do which lessens the new for another LB and Kiko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 which lessens the new for another LB and Kiko. But TEN YEARS! We'll regret it for a decade! A DECADE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 But TEN YEARS! We'll regret it for a decade! A DECADE! It really could set us back twenty years if you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) By that rationale, why not just trade our next 3 first round draft picks for McCoy instead? Most people don't want to admit it here, but the Bills got ripped off on this trade. Brandon Marshall got traded for a 5th round pick. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th. We received a 4th for Lynch. You have to factor in the value of the position and the salary implications too. Sorry, but this was a dumb move. It's not just about making your team better. It's also about maximizing your assets as well. You should technically be able to get more for Kiko than a good running back who has more career carries than any back on the Bills roster as it is. Worst post I've seen in years. A.. Best rb in league for half a decade. B. a linebacker with zero tackles whose defense improved without him. C. Bills are always wrong, check posters history. Edited March 24, 2015 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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